[R&F] Devs play at incompetance! (Tamar Game)

[BenZL43]

They could record the game play video in advance, maybe hire the better player like quill to do that.
Then do the commentary live.. this way, they can focus in only explaining and not trying to juggle between two ends.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

They could record the game play video in advance, maybe hire the better player like quill to do that.
Then do the commentary live.. this way, they can focus in only explaining and not trying to juggle between two ends.

But why? When I watch these I don't care about how awesome the person playing the game thinks he is. I care about the cool new features.

 

[leandrombraz]

They could record the game play video in advance, maybe hire the better player like quill to do that.
Then do the commentary live.. this way, they can focus in only explaining and not trying to juggle between two ends.

They would be giving up on the ability to properly show the features and show what chat ask to see to solve a problem that isn't really a problem, playing optimally isn't necessary to showcase the features. Also, if they did that we would now be discussing in the "Devs play pre recorded game because the game is broken and they are afraid to show it" thread.

 

[Victoria]

Does it have to be efficient to be enjoyable?

What does annoy me is the words “Deep Dive” give me a break, it’s a “let’s play introducing....” rather than a “let’s get to the deeper details and implications of this strategy”

I would want a deep dive to explain what they have seen happening when playtesting and how it changes the flow of the game.

I am not complaining at all about their relaxed lovely presentation style or the fact they gave us new and useful information. But whoever decided to call these things deep dive should be given a 1cm pool to dive into.

 

[Ondolindë]

Does it have to be efficient to be enjoyable?

What does annoy me is the words “Deep Dive” give me a break, it’s a “let’s play introducing....” rather than a “let’s get to the deeper details and implications of this strategy”

I would want a deep dive to explain what they have seen happening when playtesting and how it changes the flow of the game.

I am not complaining at all about their relaxed lovely presentation style or the fact they gave us new and useful information. But whoever decided to call these things deep dive should be given a 1cm pool to dive into.

Amen. I enjoyed it but no deep dive for me either. However, it was deeper than the previous one. Next week's should be even more. Progress, I guess.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I think it's just game jargon at this point.

 

[Victoria]

I think it's just game jargon at this point.

It’s linguistic abuse, they should be pelted to death with dictionaries.

 

[Ondolindë]

It’s linguistic abuse, they should be pelted to death with dictionaries.

We had both a unit and a Wonder last Friday.

Tell me who is responsible and where he or she will be and I will supply the dictionaries.

 

[Goliht]

I agree they should be showcasing the game, but to me, I gathered more info watching the pre release patreon games, which admittedly were played over 6-10 hour sessions, not really listening to what the youtuber was saying, but just watching his moves and watching how the ai moved, this is what led me to buying Civ 6 in the first place, I knew before the game released that the ai was bad, that the game had issues, but on balance I felt it was worth the money, esp given I found a copy of the game for 50% off.. I wasn't overally happy with the original pre release dev plays, for the same reasons I'm not happy with these ones.

As far as I'm concerned and the reason for the thread is to put it out there, that if you can't play your own game, then how on earth do you expect anyone to buy it?

"In my opinion" Civs 1-5 were good, Civ 6 is good, but it is also lacking, it seems to me that where in Civ 5 they "added" to the gameplay with expansions and dlcs in Civ 6, they're actually putting in stuff that should have been there at release. Of course these are generic complaints, that can be made about any game almost. The only things I don't like in Civ 6 hands down are: Ai settling places they've never scouted, because I have, pathing issues, esp near mtns, alert function and no build queue. The sucky ai combat, even the denouncing etc isn't a huge concern, but as far as I'm concerned, if a game "needs" a mod to be playable.. then it's a pretty obvious issue in the game design, mods should add content, not fix problems.

As said, I'll probably end up buying the expansion, I have all the dlc's for 6. At the price it's on offer, the new civ's alone are worth it, just worried that they do a brave new world on civ6 which I really didn't like in civ 5, forced me to completely change my playstyles.

And thanks for reopening the thread. I'd like to see longer deep dives.. 2-3 hours worth, give us a proper idea of how the ai works with the new systems, see if it's just as expected or if there's been improvements, see if they've fixed issues or broken other stuff.. this idea of just showing us what they want.. ie Marketing.. isn't really all that useful to me.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

"In my opinion" Civs 1-5 were good, Civ 6 is good, but it is also lacking, it seems to me that where in Civ 5 they "added" to the gameplay with expansions and dlcs in Civ 6, they're actually putting in stuff that should have been there at release.

Civ V Vanilla was pretty bare bones.

 

[Josephias]

Civ V Vanilla was pretty bare bones.

Yep, “in my opinion” the general consensus at Civ V gods & kings time was the gods (religion) and the kings (spies) should have been already in the vanilla release, and even felt lacking compare with cIV counterparts. But nevertheless, the game in the end was fun.

 

[Japper007]

Civ V Vanilla was pretty bare bones.

Civ 5 in it's current state is more barebones from a depth perspective than civ 6 in its current unfinished state

 

[Goliht]

Civ V Vanilla was pretty bare bones.

It was, but that isn't the point. At release Civ 5 multiplayer didn't even work, you couldn't even get games to run properly. But it did have decent content, the babylon and vikings expansions came out fairly soon after as well. The game released 23.09.2010 the babylon dlc was available on 29.10.2010.. with denmark coming out april/may 2011. Ok so only 2 more civs, but I liked them. Was near end of 2011 before they fixed mp so i worked for me at least most of the time. I got bnw in june 2013. So I was playing the game pretty solidly for 2 entire years before bnw.

Sure Gods n Kings came out earlier.. and this expansion for Civ 6 is around the same timescale with roughly the same amount of civs available, the main difference being, we didn't buy most of them as dlc's. They were in Civ 5 at launch. G&K made Civ5 into a good fun game.. it was like a breath of fresh air.. bnw not so much.

Civ 5 in it's current state is more barebones from a depth perspective than civ 6 in its current unfinished state

I wouldn't agree with this, 5 is pretty solid atm, Bnw kinda broke it for me, but there are obvious and distinct differences between 5 and 6, districts, lack of units, evil graphics, no endgame cinematics, wonder movies, day.night scale and various other differences

 

[SammyKhalifa]

It was, but that isn't the point. At release Civ 5 multiplayer didn't even work, you couldn't even get games to run properly. But it did have decent content, the babylon and vikings expansions came out fairly soon after as well. The game released 23.09.2010 the babylon dlc was available on 29.10.2010.. with denmark coming out april/may 2011. Ok so only 2 more civs, but I liked them. Was near end of 2011 before they fixed mp so i worked for me at least most of the time. I got bnw in june 2013. So I was playing the game pretty solidly for 2 entire years before bnw.

Sure Gods n Kings came out earlier.. and this expansion for Civ 6 is around the same timescale with roughly the same amount of civs available, the main difference being, we didn't buy most of them as dlc's. They were in Civ 5 at launch. G&K made Civ5 into a good fun game.. it was like a breath of fresh air.. bnw not so much.


I wouldn't agree with this, 5 is pretty solid atm, Bnw kinda broke it for me, but there are obvious and distinct differences between 5 and 6, districts, lack of units, evil graphics, no endgame cinematics, wonder movies, day.night scale and various other differences

This isn't good or bad, but was Civ 5 your first go-round? I have seen a general trend where people are disappointed with the civ that comes out directly after the one they start with. I started in II and think III was not that great (still played it a lot at the time though). When 5 was current, a LOT of people seemed to hate it, esp people who started by playing 4. Now that 5 is in the rear view mirror, people look at it a little more generously.

As far as the systems go though, it seems there is a lot more going on in our current iteration than past Civs.

 

[ZubieMaster]

Wait, the engineers at Honda aren't the world's best race car drivers?!?!?!

Amusing, but unfortunately misses the mark. A better analogy would be Honda posting a "Deep Dive into the Civic's city driving features" then watching engineers take like 3 attempts to successfully parallel park. Nobody here is saying these devs have to be the best players (whatever that would even mean), all people are saying is it's a little concerning to see how they play in the context of the AI and UI criticisms. It's just a bit of confirmation bias for those that have been complaining from (before) day 1 about those things when you see a developer playing in a way that makes one go, "Aha, well no wonder it's the way it is, maybe they just don't even see what's wrong because that's the way they play".

 

[Goliht]

This isn't good or bad, but was Civ 5 your first go-round? I have seen a general trend where people are disappointed with the civ that comes out directly after the one they start with. I started in II and think III was not that great (still played it a lot at the time though). When 5 was current, a LOT of people seemed to hate it, esp people who started by playing 4. Now that 5 is in the rear view mirror, people look at it a little more generously.

As far as the systems go though, it seems there is a lot more going on in our current iteration than past Civs.

I started with Civ 1, the old City Walls stops floods and jungles caused disease which killed your soldiers.. but before Civ I played similar games, like Ascension on the pc, which was one of the first proper fully 4x games released, along with stuff like Dune2 etc. decent music, sound effects, graphics etc. Civ didn't look all that great on release, but it was totally addicting.

In 5 I made the mistake of suggesting they add/update barbs to use all the units available and they suddenly updated the game to incl barb horsemen.. then I spent months complaining about horsemen stealing all my workers lol.. but I liked that change overall, I love the change in 6 with Barbs having horsemen from the get go.. in my current game I just lost an exploration group made up of 2 musketeers, 2 pikemen, 2 knights and a rank3 crossbow, to like 30 barb horsemen.. overconfidence is a killer.. lol. Currently scrabbling to block the horde advancing into my cities due to having no soldiers left. The ai's are all siting with raised farmlands and no soldiers.

I increased barb camps from 2 to 8 and spacing down to 3, so I now get like 4-5 barb camps near my cities, leave them long enough and you see huge barb armies getting generated.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I started with Civ 1, the old City Walls stops floods and jungles caused disease when killed your soldiers.. but before Civ I played similar games, like Ascension on the pc, which was one of the first proper fully 4x games released, along with stuff like Dune2 etc. decent music, sound effects, graphics etc. Civ didn't look all that great on release, but it was totally addicting.

Yeah, it's just a thought I have and it in no way meant that you sounded like a "newbie" or anything like that. I had friends who played CivI, but my parents didn't have a PC yet at that time because "what on Earth do we need one of those things for." I played a fair bit of Master of Magic though.

 

[Goliht]

I was a total waster in my youth, I worked in landscape gardening, made horrendous amounts of money, then sat for weeks on end playing games, esp over winter, so I bought everything, pc, consoles etc. Had commodores, amigas, 086's etc. Made them or modified for other people etc for fun. Total nerd.. then I discovered sex.. lol. And it all went downhill after that. Now my wife has a pc, my son has one, plus consoles.. plus notepads, laptops, phones.. I have drawer in kitchen full of old iphones..

I'm a total control freak, narcissistic, arrogant etc.. lol. Probably shows in my posts. Nothing wrong with me

 

[Archon_Wing]

Hmm, would anyone care to post some footage of themselves playing, I dunno, like 30 turns, and you must click end turn 15 seconds after a turn begins so we can enjoy nitpicking every time you neglect a policy? You can even rehearse the game beforehand.

 

[Goliht]

Hmm, would anyone care to post some footage of themselves playing, I dunno, like 30 turns, and you must click end turn 15 seconds after a turn begins so we can enjoy nitpicking every time you neglect a policy? You can even rehearse the game beforehand.

There's no end of those on my twitch account. https://www.twitch.tv/14bjf nitpick away. I'm not selling firaxis games.. so my skills aren't very relivant.