Hi. I started playing with Civ II, played III as well. Anyway, I am having trouble beating monarch/pangea. I am able to severely defeat prince level, I've gotten around 16k points and I generally like to choose random settings. I think that my normal strategy would be considered "warmongering" although it might also be the case that I just use enough warmongering to get by. Basically my strategy in prince would be to expand until I bump into my enemies and then focus attacks on one enemy at a time. I'd be in the middle on the scoreboard in the beginning, but the large number of cities I'd eventually get would put me at the top towards the middle/end game. Anyway, the same strategy is not working on monarch because I am having trouble keeping up with techs, and because I will sometimes have 2 or 3 people attack me after I declare war on one of my targets. Any help is much appreciated.
Difficulty on Monarch
- Thread starter hambonecu
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futurehermit
Deity
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- Apr 3, 2006
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Diplomacy is very important in the higher levels. You must make friends and coordinate their attack on your enemies lest you have them do the same to you! Pay attention to who likes who and don't trade with your friends' worst enemies. Pay tribute to your friends, open borders, share a religion, go to war together, gift them techs, etc. Eliminate enemies.
I usually judge victory condition based on the size of the continent I'm on. If alone, cultural. If < 4 civs, space. If >= 4 civs, domination.
Having the largest empire will pretty much ensure a space or domination victory. You just have to determine the best way to go.
You WILL fall behind in tech on the higher levels, so get used to that. The key is to lightbulb your great people to get techs to trade to keep parity. Also, don't forget to work cottages or specialists to keep your beakers up as you go along and don't overexpand before CoL and Currency or you'll sink your economy.
I usually judge victory condition based on the size of the continent I'm on. If alone, cultural. If < 4 civs, space. If >= 4 civs, domination.
Having the largest empire will pretty much ensure a space or domination victory. You just have to determine the best way to go.
You WILL fall behind in tech on the higher levels, so get used to that. The key is to lightbulb your great people to get techs to trade to keep parity. Also, don't forget to work cottages or specialists to keep your beakers up as you go along and don't overexpand before CoL and Currency or you'll sink your economy.
automator
King
I'm in your same situation, but I can't even make it as far as you are. For me, I get two cities, just hook up bronze/iron/horses, and I'm swarmed by barb archers and axes. It's a bummer, but I don't want to turn off the barbs, just wish I could turn them down a notch. Maybe more AI civs is my answer.
Hmm... what kind of map is it? How large/how many civs? I don't know what your build order is like, but I generally do not have lethal trouble with barbarians at all, and only encounter their archers after I have 3-4 cities or more set up. I generally do worker/worker/settler with chop rushing and try to pump out many warriors/archers after I have 2 or 3 cities set up, in order to defend my cities. So I usually have a large enough army to defend against any barbarians I encounter.
More AIs would help, as it would mean less barb-spawning fog. But I also suggest you "fogbust" liberally. It is not unusual for me (in games where there is a ton of room) to have 6 or 7 units fanned out around my territory to stop barbs from spawning really close. Usually I use combinations of archers and chariots. Archers usually sit on hills or forests or both. Barbs (since patch) seem to rarely attack them but at least I get a heads up that they are coming and I can send a chariot over. It is a great way to level up your troops. Once unit gets to Exp 10, you can send it back to your cities and send out another fresh unit to level up. Suffice it to say, I do not let barbs get anywhere near my "fat cross tiles." I loathe being pillaged.
futurehermit
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You need to secure horses/axes asap or plan to build archers. That means if you're not creative, you need to build RIGHT BESIDE a patch of horses or copper. Kinda means your 2nd city might be a bit crappy, but better that than game over, right? 
Don't be afraid to build archers though. If you see a gold pit in a potential 2nd city site, you'd be better off building archers and securing that site rather than going for a crappier 2nd city and then coming back for the gold in your 3rd city. The gold is major commerce and a
And, yes, make sure you fog bust, even if you go archers. Get warriors or archers out on hills (preferably forested) around your small empire. At the very least, it will give you notice of barbs approaching, but you're bound to kill some off this way as well.
Don't be afraid to build archers though. If you see a gold pit in a potential 2nd city site, you'd be better off building archers and securing that site rather than going for a crappier 2nd city and then coming back for the gold in your 3rd city. The gold is major commerce and a
And, yes, make sure you fog bust, even if you go archers. Get warriors or archers out on hills (preferably forested) around your small empire. At the very least, it will give you notice of barbs approaching, but you're bound to kill some off this way as well.
I took another stab at monarch, large/pangea/random everything else. Turned up with romans which ended up being very good because I was able to conquer America with my praetorians and have a good prospect at a weak Malinese neighbor. I'm 3rd from the top in the scoreboard. I tried the diplomacy thing although I doubt as masterfully as could have been done. I joined the religion of the top couple of civs. Luckily my weak neighbor was not part of that relgion. It seems to be working out ok although as I said I'm not that good at this and am sure I will piss off somebody sooner or later.
In the end a bit of luck is helping me through this game.
Another thing -- it turns out that I rely on stonehenge, possibly too much. I always build it because no AI ever goes for it, it seems. Is this a mistake? Will I not be able to do this on higher levels?
In the end a bit of luck is helping me through this game.
Another thing -- it turns out that I rely on stonehenge, possibly too much. I always build it because no AI ever goes for it, it seems. Is this a mistake? Will I not be able to do this on higher levels?
ParadigmShifter
Random Nonsense Generator
Hmm the time is approaching for my daily "get beaten up on Monarch" challenge. I'm attempting one or both of this months HOF gauntlets. Stuplidly, I play with barbs on too. My last game was going OK but I founded 4 cities too early before getting mysticism (and had no religion for border pops). It took too long to research it at 10-20% research and I got too far behind.
This will be my 6th attempt or so. My best attempt so far was with Ramesses but I attacked Churchills capital instead of waiting for catapults and knackered myself.
Settings for this months gauntlet games are both the same though, Standard, Terra, Epic, Ancient Start. Win by either conquest (minor) or space race (major).
This will be my 6th attempt or so. My best attempt so far was with Ramesses but I attacked Churchills capital instead of waiting for catapults and knackered myself.
Settings for this months gauntlet games are both the same though, Standard, Terra, Epic, Ancient Start. Win by either conquest (minor) or space race (major).
I think there are 3 key early game concepts that need to be understood and implemented fairly well on monarch to win, but can be done relatively poorly, or even not at all on prince and still win with relative ease.
First ... quick expansion to 2 or 3 cities. Settlers are very expensive. Building them stunts your growth. To get that second and third city out quick, you need to get BW so you can chop some forests. 2 forest chops to shave 10-12 turns off that first settler is more huge than you probably realize. It means 10-12 more turns of growth for BOTH cities, plus 10-12 more turns of production in BOTH cities.
Second ... choosing the correct tech path. Unless you really know what you are doing (I can't say I am at that point yet), it is generally unwise to waver from the following teching plan:
Necessary worker techs first, usually only 1 or 2.
Bronze Working
Writing -> Alphabet
BW is your key early game war and production tech. You want copper, you want the whip, you want to chop.
Alphabet is the next key. It allows you to trade and fill in everything you skipped. Even on Monarch, if you get Alphabet quickly according to this plan, you will be first, and probably half the AI won't even have writing yet. Staying ahead at Monarch generally requires researching beelines along techpaths the AI doesn't favor and filling in the useful techs you missed by trade.
Third ... Getting your economy up and running early. Hammers were coin of the realm in earlier civ games. In civIV, it's food and commerce. Yes, you need production cities, but 2 of your first 4 cities should be high-food commerce cities. Cottage economy is easiest. Pick 2 cities with lots of grasslands/floodplains and a nice food surplus, and put building and working cottages at highest priority. And make sure you have enough workers for this.
First ... quick expansion to 2 or 3 cities. Settlers are very expensive. Building them stunts your growth. To get that second and third city out quick, you need to get BW so you can chop some forests. 2 forest chops to shave 10-12 turns off that first settler is more huge than you probably realize. It means 10-12 more turns of growth for BOTH cities, plus 10-12 more turns of production in BOTH cities.
Second ... choosing the correct tech path. Unless you really know what you are doing (I can't say I am at that point yet), it is generally unwise to waver from the following teching plan:
Necessary worker techs first, usually only 1 or 2.
Bronze Working
Writing -> Alphabet
BW is your key early game war and production tech. You want copper, you want the whip, you want to chop.
Alphabet is the next key. It allows you to trade and fill in everything you skipped. Even on Monarch, if you get Alphabet quickly according to this plan, you will be first, and probably half the AI won't even have writing yet. Staying ahead at Monarch generally requires researching beelines along techpaths the AI doesn't favor and filling in the useful techs you missed by trade.
Third ... Getting your economy up and running early. Hammers were coin of the realm in earlier civ games. In civIV, it's food and commerce. Yes, you need production cities, but 2 of your first 4 cities should be high-food commerce cities. Cottage economy is easiest. Pick 2 cities with lots of grasslands/floodplains and a nice food surplus, and put building and working cottages at highest priority. And make sure you have enough workers for this.
automator
King
Good hints.
Still having barb problems. I play on Large Fractal maps with the default number of civs.
Maybe I have more problems with my play style than are apparent at Prince. Seems that I can't expand while still building fogbusters. (I'm a big fan of fogbusting -- at Prince level I usually have my entire section of the map covered with warriors and not a single barb comes near me.)
Just have to keep trying.
Still having barb problems. I play on Large Fractal maps with the default number of civs.
Maybe I have more problems with my play style than are apparent at Prince. Seems that I can't expand while still building fogbusters. (I'm a big fan of fogbusting -- at Prince level I usually have my entire section of the map covered with warriors and not a single barb comes near me.)
Just have to keep trying.
ParadigmShifter
Random Nonsense Generator
I'm doing OK on my latest game. France is about to be eliminated when I get catapults, and my economy is OK. Got the oracle/metal casting/forge slingshot going but the pyramids had gone, didn't have literature, so I went for the parthenon. 6 cities (one still in revolt from France), about to take Paris. It's late though, 5AD. Kill France then build courthouses I think, while popping a prophet for a shrine (double holy city hindu/conf), then get some scientist together for the liberalism race. Sound like a plan? Barbs aren't much of a problem since I have fogbusted my (now quite large) peninsula, and have tons of axemen. No horses though, I think Ramesses UU is going to be entirely redundant.
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