Digging a hidden arch. site still causes a diplomacy hit

[Browd]

The archeologist is not invisible, and the artifact they dig up is not invisible once it's dug up. So it is not outlandish that a civ would object to your archaeologist carrying off an artifact (or great writing) that the civ didn't know was there until it got dug up.

 

[Dralix]

Not really a good example. A hex is not the size of "my backyard", a hex is a large swathe of land

A hex is not the size of your backyard, but you aren't the leader of a nation with eyes on a larger area.

the whole idea that an archeologist coming in and doing a dig destroying a whole mining or farming area is rather stupid in itself. You don't need to dig a very big whole to find a necklace or an arrowhead, so I think it would be perfectly fine with realism if there was at least a chance of the digging action going unnoticed.

You do realize that archaeological sites don't come with GPS coordinates leading right to the artifacts, right? It's not at all uncommon to excavate a large tract of land. I also wouldn't take the necklace or arrowhead so literally. Do you really think that your archaeologist does all that digging and just finds one necklace?

 

[civ54lyfe]

it's pretty lame that you even have to worry about this issue if you actually bothered to complete Exploration. there's already no reason to complete it in the first place and then you have to walk on eggshells just to reap the last benefit. chances are relatively high that you would have already got a warning from the same AI prior to digging this bonus site anyway.

 

[Brew God]

Hello Die Hard Civ V Fans,

Does any of this apply to Gods and Kings or only in Brave New World. If so how do you get your guys digging and looking up cool stuff. I believe it's only BNW but let me know.

Thanks

Brew God

 

[Browd]

Only BNW. It's part of the overhaul of the culture system, including tourism and new CV conditions.

 

[Furret]

You can of course just dig up like five sites in enemy territory in a single turn and only get one diplo hit for the lot

^ this.

It takes some planning and patience, but in one of my games I organized 'The Great Artifact Heist of 1898' where I lifted 5 of Brazil's artifacts on the same turn (got the achievement too!). He told me to stop digging and of course I agreed because I knew he had none left .


Unfortunately this still doesn't address the problem in the OP, since you would still invoke the penalty for lifting the hidden artifacts after lifting the regular ones.

I guess you could have a fix where they tell you to stop digging regular and also tell you to stop digging hidden artifacts. It would be a slight immersion break because it would assume the civ knows about the existence of something they don't understand, but don't the civs also tell you to stop digging even if they haven't discovered archaeology?


However, I would solve this by removing the diplo hit if they don't have the social policy/tech to understand that they were losing artifacts, but would instead give a smaller diplo hit for destroying their tile improvements. I'd agree that a trade agreement for artifacts would be cool, but at the end of the day you are stealing their resources, and should therefore be punished diplomatically. Don't want the diplo penalty? Don't steal their artifacts.

 

[Callonia]

I'd agree that a trade agreement for artifacts would be cool, but at the end of the day you are stealing their resources, and should therefore be punished diplomatically. Don't want the diplo penalty? Don't steal their artifacts.

If i found myself wanting more ruins, i tend to take over the land first or steal and tell them to shove i because i'm a filthy thief.

 

[bbbt]

^ this.

It takes some planning and patience, but in one of my games I organized 'The Great Artifact Heist of 1898' where I lifted 5 of Brazil's artifacts on the same turn (got the achievement too!). He told me to stop digging and of course I agreed because I knew he had none left .

I swear I tried this with Russia, and still got the diplo hit. They told me to stop digging and I agreed, but I still got the red negative line about it for Russia under the diplo status (where you usually don't for just one).

 

[kaspergm]

Yeah, just to clarify, that is factually wrong. If you did multiple artifacts on the same turn, you will get the diplomatic penalty from taking their artifacts. If you promise not to do it again on the turn that you took several artifacts, you'll also get the penalty for breaking your promise.

it's pretty lame that you even have to worry about this issue if you actually bothered to complete Exploration. there's already no reason to complete it in the first place and then you have to walk on eggshells just to reap the last benefit. chances are relatively high that you would have already got a warning from the same AI prior to digging this bonus site anyway.

Don't have a lot more to add to this discussion than what I've already said, but this is exactly the issue. Exploration is already a pretty bad tree, and topping it off with a finisher that you can't fully take advantage of without getting a diplomatic hit is just bad game design imo.

 

[lindsay40k]

Thanks for clarifying that, @kaspergm. Can I ask how this information came to light?

 

[FeiLing]

You can't say that getting a diplo hit for stealing an artifact from a civ you want good relationship with ruins Exploration. I mean I could say the same for Honor where I can't get the gold for killing units from a civ I don't want to go to war with.

 

[Dralix]

You can't say that getting a diplo hit for stealing an artifact from a civ you want good relationship with ruins Exploration. I mean I could say the same for Honor where I can't get the gold for killing units from a civ I don't want to go to war with.

As such, I would say that it's not bad design. If exploration needs a buff then fine, but it's hardly unreasonable to get a diplomatic hit for stealing another civ's cultural treasures.

 

[Bex]

What's 'hidden' from the other civ is the potential of the site, the knowledge that something valuable will be there. Digging up someone's land isn't hidden, and the artifacts you unearth under their noses are not hidden either.

 

[civ54lyfe]

You can't say that getting a diplo hit for stealing an artifact from a civ you want good relationship with ruins Exploration. I mean I could say the same for Honor where I can't get the gold for killing units from a civ I don't want to go to war with.

no, the thing is that Exploration is already ruined, and then once you've wasted all that time finishing the tree, the diplo penalty that's likely awaiting you is just icing on a rotten Ms. Haversham cake.

 

[Callonia]

This thread in bare essence is about thieves complaining that they cannot steal stuff and get away with it scot free.