Diplo for D'nut

[grahamiam]

can you cc Kuningas, he's the turnplayer since 'cane is out of town right now.

 

[Wosret]

Did they answered Whomp?
That settler of them will delay our GSs, if we realy do a "settler block".

 

[Tubby Rower]

I just noticed that the Iroquois have Banking and Astronomy yet we don't.... is there some reason for this or are they in cahoots with MIA?

 

[Whomp]

They will send us these techs but we'll make it look like we stole them.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

We might want to let Donuts know that we have sent our SOD up to the Banana. They have one wounded sword outside.

We might want to see if they want to coordinate anything.

 

[Whomp]

Was on with Robi and had a quick talk about our pitboss game and short discussion on TNT.

Spoiler :

Rob says:
oh just quickly on the TNT thing, the consesus with in the team has been for you guys to use your treb's to soften them up before attacking, there is no need to rush and we might as well keep our losses to a minimum
Whomp says:
we have our stack there
Rob says:
yeah i saw, just pound them for a few turns unless you guys are in a rush
Whomp says:
no major rush
Whomp says:
do you know the composition of your stack?
Rob says:
anyway i'm sure killer can get into finer details with you guys
Whomp says:
ok go to work
Whomp says:

Rob says:
umm, no exactly thats a question for killer but its mostly MW's
Rob says:
no worries, take care

 

[Tubby Rower]

sounds like they want us to soften it for them to be able to walk in.

We need to remember that TNT will have healing after D'nut attacks. So the order of play will play a part in Simon's last battle.

KISS bombs them & attacks
D'nut has an opportunity to attack a weakened TNT
TNT heals

with this order, we need to make sure that we can take them completely out on our turn or D'nut could steal it from us.

 

[Bede]

Nutters has nothing but hurting troops retreating from the battlefield right now.

MW's against pikes in a pop12 city is just bad business.

So unless Killer holds a royal flush somewhere behind his back it is going to take them awhile to do the dirty on the Dancing Banana

@Whomp, any progress on getting a peek at their battle logs? I won't share anything until we do.

And Metal will be sent to them next turn, do we get anything in reply? or is it sent as a gift?

 

[Daghdha]

I think it's time to work something out w the 'nuts. MIA treaty will soon expire and they are itching to pull the trigger (my guess). PC at home has crashed so I cannot make it to MSN/AIM for a while. Those who can, get them to write something up regarding the alliance vs. MIA. I feel some urgency about this matter.

Side Note: Since I'm off line a lot, should we maybe switch POTKISS? I'm willing to be overthrown

 

[Whomp]

Good talk with Killercane. We need map coordinates and another treaty written. Maybe copying our current treaty and making it IA?

Spoiler :

casey j says:
bernie hows it hanging
Whomp says:
Hi Case
Whomp says:
what's happening your way?
casey j says:
nada just got back from dinner and about to play this mtdg save
casey j says:
anything i should know to play it
Whomp says:
What's the plan?
Whomp says:
simon told me he has 2 immortals
Whomp says:
i think we sent metal last turn
casey j says:
ok yes i have it here
casey j says:
are you retreating from DB
Whomp says:
For a turn
casey j says:
and you bastards settled my ivory like i knew you would
casey j says:
ha
Whomp says:
we needed to reinforce since our pike was at 2/4
Whomp says:
ikes
Whomp says:
we should settle the land thing
casey j says:
there is plenty of ivory to go around and land too for that matter
Whomp says:
We'd like to finalize a long term deal too. Would you guys go for that/
Whomp says:
?
casey j says:
sorry just got done playing
casey j says:
of course
casey j says:
i sent astro and a ROP this turn to you
Whomp says:
OK good
casey j says:
i will send banking in a few turns
casey j says:
how close are you to MT
Whomp says:
I can't remember what Bede said. I thought it was reasonably fast
Whomp says:
let me check
casey j says:
should be 4 turns or so i would think
Whomp says:
he didn't write it down but I see it's 4 in a city picture
Whomp says:


casey j says:
ok good i will be on MIA's ass if they dont send physics this turn
Whomp says:
I saw Classical taking turns
casey j says:
so in 10 turns we should be industrial
casey j says:
i saw that
Whomp says:


casey j says:
cant bode well for them
Whomp says:
That's not a good idea
Whomp says:
Maybe Chamnix is on vacation
Whomp says:
I will have someone draw up a treaty for the IA's
Whomp says:
Similar structure I'd think
casey j says:
ok good. what do you think about land settling
Whomp says:
Graham drew a map
Whomp says:
it was in effect straight east/west across Dancing Nana
Whomp says:
We can share them now can't we?
casey j says:
i dont think so, astro doesnt allow world maps does it
casey j says:
need navigation or magnetism
Whomp says:
ok
Whomp says:
I will gather coordinates then

 

[Bede]

Need a consensus here.

Given what MIA is doing (shipping iron to TNT) through their town on Battle Island would killer be amenable to cutting the roads providing the network?

If I can get some agreement here I will send him a PM making that suggestion.

 

[Whomp]

Need a consensus here.

Given what MIA is doing (shipping iron to TNT) through their town on Battle Island would killer be amenable to cutting the roads providing the network?

If I can get some agreement here I will send him a PM making that suggestion.

He would be very appreciative of that intel. I'm also going to post our original agreement with Donut. I think all it needs is an extension attached to it. We can work on the rest.

 

[Whomp]

Here's a draft of the Simpson protocol. Let's amend this accordingly and get the deal inked.

Draft proposal for The Simpsons Protocols

Within this treaty teams KISS and Doughnuts will be known as The Quick, while teams MIA and TNT will be known as The Dead


Military

-Peaceful relations are guaranteed between The Quick for the duration of this agreement.

-If one of The Quick is in a war it is not required that the other alliance member join in. However, if a 2nd team joins the enemy of an alliance member (2 on 1) then we shall join forces (within 5 turns) together to fight both teams. With "join forces" we mean an in-game declaration of war on the enemies of the alliance

-During the period of hostilities both parties would have a Right of Passage through the others territory. Any movement through each other's territory will be anounced, including force composition, proposed path and ultimate destination. There would also be cooperation in military strategy.

-The Quick must seek permission to enter eachothers land borders. Sea borders can be entered without permission, however naval units must continue their movement with each turn unless permission is requested and received.

-Cooperation in the gathering of intelligence


Technology and Trading

-Cooperation in the advancement of technological research. By researching different technologies at the same time we can double the efficiency of our research.

-Technologies will be researched as such to maintain an equality of trade value.

-Technologies that are researched during this period may be exchanged with another nation as long as both parties consent to this. Any technology gained in return would be shared by both parties.

-Trade in luxuries and resources can be negotiated on an individual basis once a trade route is established

-Neither of The Quick may enter an agreement with any of The Dead that would adversely effect any of the conditions of this agreement.


Termination of the treaty

-Once the technologies outlined in the Nut and Bolt tech tree attached in this mail have been discovered and exchanged, the deal can be renegotiated. That means all techs except the ones crossed over while Chivalry is optional.

-Any amendments to the treaty must be agreed to by both parties for it to take effect.

-If one of The Quick feels wronged by the other in reference to this agreement, and the wrong doing is confirmed by administrators, they are free to declare a one-sided termination of the agreement. This can apply to various parts, or the whole agreement.

 

[gmaharriet]

would killer be amenable to cutting the roads providing the network?

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. MIA is providing aid and comfort to our mutual enemy.

 

[Kickbooti]

So the proposal is to extend this through the Industrial Age?

Should we consider amending the military section to include a statement of mutual support if MIA attacks one or the other? Something like...

If either party initiates a war of aggression against the Dead, the other party is not obliged to enter. However, if a member of the Dead attacks either party of this agreement, the second party shall declare war within five turns and be engaged for the duration.

After such time that all three parties are involved in the conflict, peace negotiations shall require the agreement of both parties of the Quick.


Something like that.

And I say cut the road.

 

[Bede]

He would be very appreciative of that intel. I'm also going to post our original agreement with Donut. I think all it needs is an extension attached to it. We can work on the rest.

PM sent to killer. If you chat tonight give him a bump.

 

[Whomp]

On with him now....here's the details so far unedited....

Spoiler :

jb1964 says:
so can I ask him about the source of his iron?
Whomp says:
sure
jb1964 says:
casey just added me to his list of contacts so I guess he's back

casey j has been added to the conversation.

Whomp says:
Casey
casey j says:
yo
Whomp says:
How are you bud
Whomp says:
JB is here with us
Whomp says:
Kiss guy
casey j says:
pretty good, the AC is broken at my place, so i am sweltering
jb1964 says:
hiya casey
casey j says:
hey man hows it going
casey j says:
are you a sooners fan
jb1964 says:
going good, spent a good part of my day in a pool
Whomp says:
Hey Case fyi for you
Whomp says:
MIA is giving TNT iron again
Whomp says:
that road is connected
jb1964 says:
farging bastages
casey j says:
will be disconnected asap then
jb1964 says:
much obliged
casey j says:
they wasted workers on that project?
casey j says:
like its going to help them anyways
Whomp says:
right
jb1964 says:
they seem intent on sticking their fingers in our collective eye no matter what the price
Whomp says:
we're close to full upgrades
casey j says:
are you going to send in the troops again? i have a battle plan
Whomp says:
yep
Whomp says:
musket led this time
casey j says:
are you going to attack? if you attack we will follow if you dont clean them up
Whomp says:
I'd have to ask Bede
jb1964 says:
BTW, the pic is my son in "Wall Drug Store" in Wall, South Dakota acting goofy w/ some shades that my parents are fond of.
casey j says:
the first team in will suffer heavy losses, then the other team will take it
casey j says:
the problem is we go first in the turn order, and after you bombard and attack they will be healed up
casey j says:
maybe you should loan us your trebs
Whomp says:
I wonder if we can
jb1964 says:
now that's an idea
Whomp says:
i think there's an exploit related to that
casey j says:
let me look at the rules
casey j says:
but i think youre right
jb1964 says:
I've not read through the rules so it's kewl by me
jb1964 says:


Whomp says:
how soon do you want to go?
jb1964 says:
who has the save at this point?
Whomp says:
TNT to MIA
jb1964 says:
TNT, MIA, D'Nut and that KISS?
Whomp says:
that's right
casey j says:
i dont see anything in the rules about it
casey j says:
but its pretty shady
Whomp says:
i could've sworn there was something
jb1964 says:
but if D'nut takes the trebs the it's war isn't it?
casey j says:
the ruleset should be bigger and more encompassing, there is just some stuff about city gifting
Whomp says:
Two or more teams capturing and recapturing non-combat units (Including bombardment units) with the intent to use them against a third party team simultaneously
casey j says:
oh where is that
Whomp says:
1.1
Whomp says:
double duty exploit
casey j says:
welp there you go
casey j says:
sipped my beer and passed right over that one
jb1964 says:
Plus the ensuing war would cut any multi turn deals we have going
casey j says:
lux trade
casey j says:
good point
casey j says:
how soon are you getting MT
Whomp says:
i think 3
Whomp says:
we gave you metal this or last turn?
casey j says:
last turn, we should be getting physics this turn
jb1964 says:
Simons says he's busy keeping his commerce tiles up.
Whomp says:
we need to smack those down
jb1964 says:
maybe we can atrite his forces by choking his income, however, I don't doubt that MIA would slip him as much gold as they could spare
casey j says:
they must be trying to get their IA tech
casey j says:
they want them to hold out for 8 more turns i take it
casey j says:
maybe less than that
Whomp says:
is MIA gifting them again?
Whomp says:
i haven't noticed
casey j says:
i dont know, but that is what i would do if i were them
casey j says:
now that they have metal
Whomp says:
we need to eliminate them fast
jb1964 says:
I guess keeping TNT slow researching a tech is smart for them
casey j says:
one of them will surely get nationalism
Whomp says:
we need to coordinate which turn we go for the jugular.
Whomp says:
are you ready now?
jb1964 says:
we need to pull the trigger sooner rather than later.
Whomp says:
yep
Whomp says:
we don't want the same to happen in the IA that happened this age
casey j says:
we have
jb1964 says:
And MIA's got to be itching to come after us with both barrels.
casey j says:
21 MWs ready
casey j says:
and waiting
Whomp says:
ok i'll let bede know
casey j says:
how many defenders do you think they have
Whomp says:
let me see if i can tell from the turnlog
jb1964 says:
I bet MIA's been giving them the gold (and iron) to rush immortals
casey j says:
if they have 15 pikes
Whomp says:
2 or 3 immortals
Whomp says:
6 buchets
casey j says:
and we attack and then you attack with 8 longbows and 4 or 5 gallics we only have a 10% chance of taking them out
Whomp says:
we should upgrade to cannons
Whomp says:
and bring those back
casey j says:
do you have the money
Whomp says:
we're burning hard on MT
Whomp says:
i think we can upgrade those
casey j says:
we can give you the cash on loan
casey j says:
for gpt
Whomp says:
We'd prefer a long term deal
Whomp says:
I will ask if we need it
Whomp says:
we're running 90% on MT
casey j says:
we should 4 turn ToG or Magnetism whatever we want to do
casey j says:
so we are neck and neck scientifically with MIA
Whomp says:
that's good
Whomp says:
now we need to blow them out
Whomp says:
they will only have metal, correct?
Whomp says:
they're going after phyics now
casey j says:
no they are on ToG
Whomp says:
and a prebuild
casey j says:
and about to complete it
Whomp says:
wow
casey j says:
we might just have 4 or 5 turns before they go industrial and gift TNT up
casey j says:
let me look when they got physics
Whomp says:
they need MT and mag
Whomp says:
MT is not required
jb1964 says:
they don't need MT to get to the next age
Whomp says:
hmm
casey j says:
and that iron isnt in their borders so they arent getting it
casey j says:
from that
casey j says:
i dont think there is a colony over there
casey j says:
since we swept through a while back
Whomp says:
they are not at war with you
Whomp says:
so could MIA be connecting through your harbors
casey j says:
no but TNT doesnt have a trade route that I can see
Whomp says:
ok
Whomp says:
could be through us
casey j says:
MIA can connect to them but they cant receive iron through us
casey j says:
or you since our war cuts the trade routes
casey j says:
i dont think MIA has any harbors on our land they only have the one silk city
Whomp says:
I'll have to ask Simon what's up with that
jb1964 says:
Well, there's little doubt that we can't have TNT be gifting MIA an IA tech.
casey j says:
yep
casey j says:
we have to go
jb1964 says:
So MIA's looking to trigger their GA w/ a wonder?
Whomp says:
Newts
casey j says:
i would think so and they mentioned they were "thinking" about it, I think it is a given
Whomp says:
they already have colossus
Whomp says:
and they're prebuilding
Whomp says:
We need to extend our agreement Casey.
Whomp says:
Would Donuts be amenable to that?
casey j says:
i think so
casey j says:
we need to discuss terms and whatnot
casey j says:
including settling in the north
Whomp says:
Yep
jb1964 says:
If we don't get together w/ D'nuts then MIA's going to grow too strong for either team
Whomp says:
I agree
Whomp says:
The best each of us could hope for is each other
jb1964 says:
Touching, I can hear harp music n the background
jb1964 says:

casey j says:
ha
Whomp says:
Freaking Illini
casey j says:
our peace agreement with them ends on turn 177
casey j says:
and yours on 166
casey j says:
do you plan a preemptive strike and then have us join in right after?
Whomp says:
Right so we need to extend the simpson protocol
jb1964 says:
I don't think we'll have to pre-empt
jb1964 says:
I think they'll want to attack w/ as many turns of DNut peace as possible
casey j says:
I would estimate they have about 30 knights that they will upgrade to cavs
casey j says:
does civ assist open up multi player saves for either of you
jb1964 says:
wuts the current turn?
jb1964 says:
never tried
Whomp says:
155
Whomp says:
I've tried using civassist in my pbems and it doesn't work
casey j says:
see if ToG and magnetism are still both 2040 beakers
Whomp says:
actually mapstat
Whomp says:
i don't have civassist
jb1964 says:
I'm not that technical of a player
jb1964 says:
I don't have it
casey j says:
hold on i am downloading the newer version maybe it will tell so we know if they are on magnetism or not
casey j says:
it still shows they ahvent got either one so we have at least 5 turns
casey j says:
if that info is trustworthy
Whomp says:
they don't have MT so that helps too
jb1964 says:
how about plan on a death blow in 5 turns?
casey j says:
sure
casey j says:
we will need MT asap so we can upgrade about 5 MWs
Whomp says:
you got it
Whomp says:
Can you guys tell us what you want land wise
jb1964 says:
the moment MIA gets word of the Calvs they'll freak
Whomp says:
we can agree to extend the existing agreement in the meantime
casey j says:
well straight east west across the banana kind of hurts us in that much of that land is already improved
Whomp says:
ok
Whomp says:
let us know what your thoughts are
Whomp says:
i'm sure we can negotiate that on MIA land
casey j says:
here is from an MIA talk a few days ago
casey j says:
casey j says:
are you planning on going to war with KISS when your agreement expires?
casey j says:
or planning on them warring with you?
Josh says:
well - we may not have a choice! (yeah - more like the second one)
Josh says:
Let me put it this way - we don't intended to renew our peace deal
Josh says:
which is good for you - less to fear from KISS
casey j says:
i think they will be the ones to attack first while you have troops still being ferried back home
casey j says:
unless we can get TNT done with soon
jb1964 says:
I will we could bombard their racks into dust
jb1964 says:
I wish, that is
Whomp says:
Casey can you PM Bede what you'd like to do? Or post it here so he can read it? We need to get those guys finished
casey j says:
well how many troops can you bring to the party
casey j says:
we could attack in 4 turns
Whomp says:
I think we could upgrade by then too
Whomp says:
and be ready to go
casey j says:
do you have a barracks in boomboom?
Whomp says:
he has no attack units so drawing out his immortals might help too
jb1964 says:
send some pikes to stomp his tiles and he'll run out after 'em
jb1964 says:
Simon seems of a mind to do just that
Whomp says:
i don't see boom boom
casey j says:
cut that wheat irrigation and road
Whomp says:
wheat is gone
casey j says:
right by dancing nana
casey j says:
ok
casey j says:
we can knock off 3 mines next turn
Whomp says:
ahh Bede renamed
Whomp says:
dynopolis
Whomp says:
it is likely being rushed next i'd gues
casey j says:
so just enough time to upgrade cannons.
Whomp says:
look like it
casey j says:
well we would get MT on turn 4 and have the cavs ready on turn 5 from now
casey j says:
or is it 3 and 4 respectively
Whomp says:
i think we have it in 4 send to you and you upgrade on 5
Whomp says:
ready on 6, right?
Whomp says:
we're the last player
casey j says:
that sounds right. i can break in and upgrade on the turn we get MT now that I think about it
Whomp says:
through the big picture?
casey j says:
yep
Whomp says:
i think your'e right
Whomp says:
Casey Bede sent you a pm
Whomp says:
Hi Bede
casey j says:
hello bedester
Bede says:
Yo, Bernie. Just finished the read through the transcript
Bede says:
Dat you k'?
Whomp says:
Killercane and JB here too
casey j says:
it be me
Bede says:
And jb howdy!
Bede says:
Here is what I see happening in the next four turns -
jb1964 says:
hello
Bede says:
In three turns MT comes in and in four we finish Leo's. Immediately afterwards the rax is rushed in Boomboom (dyno that was) and the trebs, GS and the one horse on the island all get their upgrades. We will have ten cannon, a couple of muskets, four maces, six longbows and a cav at the gates of Dancing Banana. Judging from the commentary that may not be enough
casey j says:
well if i can get our cav army up there it can put a bit out of nana
casey j says:
bite*
casey j says:
but it will take until turn 6 or so
Bede says:
well that seems to fit as it will be at least five before we get to the gates
casey j says:
what about those gallic swords blocking off my settler
Whomp says:
are we shortrushing the rax?
casey j says:
can you add those to the mix
Bede says:
@ casey, the GS are heading to Boomboom for upgrade
Bede says:
@whomp, will put the cash in the rax when the time is right. That little burg only makes 1 shield per turn anyway
jb1964 says:
Bede, there's some concern that in 5 turns, minimum, MIA can gift TNT into the IA and grab a free tech.
casey j says:
we can upgrade 3 cavs/turn and have 900 in the bank
jb1964 says:
We all want TNT dead before that happens
casey j says:
so we can get 10 up there and the cav army by turns 6 or 7 but that might be too late adn depends on if we can peg down when MIA is hitting industrial
casey j says:
if we hurt research
casey j says:
the variables we dont know are how many pikes are in DB and how soon MIA will get them Industrial
Bede says:
there are at least three veterans based on the last plinking I did I have no idea what's behind them. the trebs were only hitting @30%
Bede says:
what TNT doesn't have are any offensive troops other than the one that survived the last battle at the gates. Otherwise they would have cut through the longbows like butter
jb1964 says:
Simon let on that he covets his commerce tiles. There seems to be general agreement that we should stand on them.
jb1964 says:
Cane says he can stomp on three next turn
Whomp says:
he can't risk any offensives outside of city walls
Whomp says:
a pillaging musket could do some damage alone
Whomp says:
and if attacked take out his immortal
casey j says:
on turn 145 TNT had 10 vet pikes, 2 regulars in there and a few trebs
Bede says:
that is so true, so if killer can whack some riversides more power to him.
casey j says:
then they abandoned their NW town
casey j says:
so they might have 15 or so defenders
casey j says:
that is what i was running the numbers on
Bede says:
the treb count is at least six, the Nw town was covered by the troops that whacked our army group back about that time
casey j says:
so what do you think they have in there? i dont think MIA will give us any more intel without us having to pay an arm and a leg
Whomp says:
i try with simon but he's a stubborn lad
Bede says:
Starting at the top there is one vImmo, and probably a half dozen vPikes, and the six trebs based on their plinking count. After that is starts to be a guessing game
Whomp says:
he's said to me around 20
Whomp says:
but won't be specific
Whomp says:
6 trebs, 2 immortals and 12 pikes?
casey j says:
how many pikes have you killed in the last ten turns?
Bede says:
I think you are about right
Whomp says:
mostly immortal Case
Bede says:
The kill count has been immortals rather than pikes.
casey j says:
so it is safe to assume they still have those 12
casey j says:
the ten vets and 2 regs
casey j says:
they built an immo on turn 146
jb1964 says:
I need to head out
Whomp says:
bye jb
casey j says:
see ya jb
jb1964 says:
good luck hammering out a long term agreement
casey j says:
good talking to you

jb1964 has left the conversation.

Bede says:
But I think waht we are coming up with here is that we are probably a horse or two short to take the town before reinforcement from the south
Bede says:
What I would hate to have happen is for either one of us to spend down our troops and come up one short
casey j says:
yep
Bede says:
And until we can really hurt those vPIkes I just don't think we can do it. Attack 4 on a fortified vPIke in a pop12 city just isn't in the cards
Bede says:
If I can get those ten trebs converted to cannon it becomes a whole 'nother story
Whomp says:
that would be big
Bede says:
What't the scoop on the MIA/TNT iron trade? is there somehting I'm missing here?
Whomp says:
we can starve him down too
Whomp says:
we're trying to figure out how?
casey j says:
i dont see any trade routes
Bede says:
There are a couple of GS and a horse I can slide across his northern floodplains
casey j says:
they cant connect through us and that town by the silks isnt connected
casey j says:
unless there is a city i dont see
casey j says:
i can whack all roads to the left of DB
Bede says:
I pushed all the way to the NW peninsula before turning the horse and GS trio towards the Banana and didn't see any indication of a MIS town
casey j says:
what led you to believe they were getting iron still?
Whomp says:
simon told me
Whomp says:
BCLG
Whomp says:
he said he's talking to himself in TNT's forums and seems to have been forthright in the past
Bede says:
He does have a perky sense of humor though
Whomp says:
brit
Bede says:
Anyway, here is my plan subject to co-ordination. Get the trebs, GS and pikes upgraded at Boomboom, then move in for another set of plinking at the Banana. And if I see a regular anything try to kill it. I just don't think it will all happen in five turns though
casey j says:
i dont either. we do get a turn leeway on the gifting thing if we take out TNT on the same turn they send stuff i would hope
casey j says:
i will see this turn if they get ToG
casey j says:
whenever they get that they will be 4 turns away i would think from IA, and 5 turns from getting the TNT freebie
casey j says:
and then we will see what kind of force we can bring to bear on them
Bede says:
If you want to bring your troops in from the SW to try and mop up the wounded that would help
casey j says:
let me know when they have someone exposed and i will
casey j says:
i will try to bring the cav army to bear asap, and that should be the end of them
Bede says:
I will send you any battle logs from here on in if you will do the same. And I am going to leave it in your and Whomp's capable hands to work out the DMZ for the post war period.
casey j says:
sounds good
casey j says:
i think im about to get off but we will eradicate the evil sneak attackers in due time

 

[Tubby Rower]

one thing that I noticed is that killer has the turn order incorrect. He had the turn order as TNT, MIA, D'nut then Kiss

but it's
TNT
MIA
KISS
D'nut
TNT <-heals

so by us attacking first, if we almost take the city then D'nut has an easier time going at it, but there is likely enough pikes in there for the seige to go for 2 turns.

 

[grahamiam]

for the border, it is not straight E-W, it is NW/SE. They get an ivory and a ton of grass in the NW, while we keep some of the grass to the NE.

Also, are Donut's required to give MIA MT once they get it?

 

[Whomp]

for the border, it is not straight E-W, it is NW/SE. They get an ivory and a ton of grass in the NW, while we keep some of the grass to the NE.

OK my bad. I may have to draw some coordinates. It might be good in negotiations to start out high, like I did, so when we give more it looks like we are being generous.

Also, are Donut's required to give MIA MT once they get it?

No.