Diplo for D'nut

[jb1964]

I think we've pretty well convinced ourselves that MIA has no possible way to get Iron to TNT.

We're 11 turns away from the end of the MIA treaty.

Here's what I see MIA's planning...
Self research ToG and Mag...
They'll trigger the GA w/ their pre-build for Newton's
Gift TNT to the IA and get a Tech for nothing

The big missing component is how they intend to get MT. Either they're planning on trading D'nuts for it (most likely) or they understand they'll need to go after it themselves.

Then they need to decide to strike immediately w/ their estimated 30 knights or wait for the upgrade. With all their research they wont have much gold on hand but then I don't think the upgrade from knights to cavalry is prohibitive.

 

[jb1964]

Sorry for the double post but for some reason this lack of a long-term agreement w/ D'nut is killing me.

We can either string D'nut along planning to take on MIA with no certainty of D'Nut support or we can ink a deal that ends with MIA dead and us and the Nutters on equal footing.

Without a long-term agreement it’s about certain that Nutters will stay on the sidelines only until they need to jump in and reestablish three-team parity. If we don't want to be encumbered with a long-term equality deal then start formulating a plan where Nutters are sitting on the sidelines waiting for their opportunity to keep this a three-team fight.

However I think most of us would like a long-term agreement that will pit us against the Nutters until the end. Since they’re not stupid it’s not going to do us much good to try and gain an upper hand on these negotiations. They have already asked for a treaty that puts us on our respective continents and eliminates the hostilities. Since that would make for a boring game I don’t see how we can agree to a non-aggression treaty until the end. I think we should propose an equality treaty that does not eliminate the possibility of an ultimate military solution.

So here’s my idiot, and somewhat chicken, idea…
Agree to the destruction of MIA and all the other mutual cooperation that goes hand-in-hand with such a partnership (techs, luxes, resources, etc.).
Agree that the treaty concludes when MIA is gone and each side attains landmass (resources & luxes) and tech parity.

Parity can be defined by equal luxes, equitable split of resources and equal number of tiles. To attain parity we need not retreat to each other’s continent. In fact, the game dynamics would be more interesting with each team holding territory on both continents.

Thoughts?

 

[CommandoBob]

Sorry for the double post but for some reason this lack of a long-term agreement w/ D'nut is killing me.

I like the idea of sharing a common foe (MIA). One enemy at a time.

I also gather that you feel the Nutters are more capable than MIA. Otherwise, you would not be so concerned about a long term treaty with them.

But, could the delay be caused by RL issues (vacations, family time, etc.) and not foot-dragging and stalling?

Seems like across the forum things have slowed down. I wasn't too active last summer, so my perception could be faulty.

 

[Whomp]

I would like an agreement as well. The only hang up we have is land. I'm going to send a map based on Grahamiam's coordinates. Let's decide if there are any changes to the Simpson protocol (Booti's already made one suggestion.)

CommandoBob--I think MIA is likely the strongest team right now. If Donut doesn't partner with us but against us, consenus says, they have no shot against MIA.

 

[Tubby Rower]

we can send maps now, so no text maps please... it cornfuses me

 

[Whomp]

we can send maps now, so no text maps please... it cornfuses me

We can? OK don't want to make you askeered.

 

[Tubby Rower]

can't we trade maps in game? oh wait that's civ 4 I'm thinking of. text maps it is... nevermind play on



nothing to see here

 

[gmaharriet]

Isn't it Navigation we need for map trading? That's an optional tech, so do we plan to research it? Or am I thinking of the wrong tech?

 

[Bede]

Learned MilTrad but did not pass it to Homer pending clarification of their deal with MIA.

They are piling up the Mounties next to the 'Nana. If we want the town ourselves we will need an agreement on the land grab in place before I start the bombardment (cannons at the gates). If I weaken them Simpsons have enough force to take the town.

 

[Whomp]

A pm sent to Killercane.

A few items...
1. Just to make you aware, MIA is trying to make a big stink about your tech dealing. They want a meeting with us regarding what they consider to be manipulative tech trading by Donut. They're trying to make a huge deal out of it.

2. Has Donut reviewed the extended treaty? A few things we noticed. It should say "and" not "or" when discussing TNT "and" MIA cease to exist. Let us know if the land division is suitable. The line moves on a SE to NW axis so there's quite a bit for you.

3. We have MT. Just to make sure...this is not being given to MIA correct?

4. We have cannons at the gates so we should be ready over the next turn or two. You should pm Bede with any questions.

 

[Whomp]

PM from 'Cane...
What do you guys think? I'm not sure I want MIA to have MT. I'd rather have Donut research mag and we go 100% cash for upgrades. It's probably a 4 turner for MIA but more for Donut. What do you think?

I think the land division is fine with us. MIA is quite annoying with their *****ing. I thought we mentioned a MT for Magnetism trade with you and it was cool? If not we will research Mag and make them do MT themselves. Either way we are all industrial, the only consideration on your part is if you want that sooner or later for war purposes at turn 166. What do you want to do?

 

[Tubby Rower]

I'd rather leave MIA hanging. Tell the Nuts' to start whipping their nerds. Tell them of the 42 lashes that I received when I went public with my intentions of learning German. I don't ever recall us agreeing to them giving MT for Mag, but Ethan might have been distracting me during that period of time. What exactly have the D'nut's researched for themselves besides Horseback Riding?

Since they are fine with the land division does that mean that if they take then that means that they'll gift it to us if they take it?

 

[Whomp]

I don't remember MT being a part of the deal either. MIA is already industrial and I wonder if 'Cane is aware of that.

 

[grahamiam]

they probably can't see thier workers, best you inform them of the bad news

 

[Whomp]

PM sent to Killercane.

MIA just went industrial. Their workers have suspenders on.

With that being said we're inclined to have them research MT on their own. We'd hate for them to have rifles (or rails) and cavs all at once.

 

[Bede]

I feel like I am missing something here




It's not whether D'nuts gets cavalry, it is whether MIA gets it from them as part of the existing deal between MIA and the Nutters. If MilTrad is not a part of that deal I'd pass it on to them no further questions asked.

 

[Whomp]

I feel like I am missing something here




It's not whether D'nuts gets cavalry, it is whether MIA gets it from them as part of the existing deal between MIA and the Nutters. If MilTrad is not a part of that deal I'd pass it on to them no further questions asked.

I'm with you Bede. MT was never part of any conversation. I would send it to Donut but under the condition they don't share it with MIA. If it means they have to research mag then so be it.

However, I would like to talk with MIA to see their agreement. I'm curious.

 

[jb1964]

I think the land division is fine with us. MIA is quite annoying with their *****ing. I thought we mentioned a MT for Magnetism trade with you and it was cool? If not we will research Mag and make them do MT themselves. Either way we are all industrial, the only consideration on your part is if you want that sooner or later for war purposes at turn 166. What do you want to do?

The "Either way we are all industrial" comment bothers me. He seems unfazed that MIA is already industrial. And the fact that he's cool witht the land division is also bothersome. I would be *****ing up a storm over that one.

In searching through the thread I scanned over D’Nut communiqué’s and did not see anything that said they were not to give MIA MT. I did find a comment that MIA would not be getting Chem but that was because MIA was self-researching. I did find a post (416) that shows D’Nuts is breaking their treaty w/ MIA by supplying us w/ techs.

Here are the links to various D’Nut posts..

casey j says:
so we are neck and neck scientifically with MIA
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4281768&postcount=437

This is the note that D’Nuts admits that they’re violating a no trade clause
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4163753&postcount=416

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4153100&postcount=411
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4149825&postcount=409
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4133742&postcount=394
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4131463&postcount=389

 

[Kickbooti]

Cane mentioned turn 166, is that just the end of our treaty with MIA or are we planning on striking that turn?

Also, I'm fine with sharing MT with the Nuts, as long as they don't send it to MIA. If they have an agreement with MIA that will expire in the near future, why don't we agree to hang onto MT until then?

 

[gmaharriet]

The discussion that I hazily recall from when we were still negotiating our agreement between the "Quick" was whether or not to include Chivalry, because we already had a good fast-moving unit. I believe we DID include Military Tradition.

I'd have to go back to the thread discussion from around that time to be certain.