Diplo for MIA

[Whomp]

I don't think we would want to give it away either but I don't see where we benefit pushing them into the MA either.

They will be on running zero science for awhile anyhow since poly is being researched by Donut and will be finished by them soon. That means the tech is cheaper (and will MIA trade for it?) so they'll be able to generate cash for a long time before we finish construction.

 

[Daghdha]

Us going for Construction is a suggestion by MIA IIRC. We could well say that we wanna do Poly instead and then buy it from Nuts since overseas trading isn't forbidden...yet. They prolly know Nuts are working on it, but since they seem to believe we're not talking they don't know that we know that, heh. Again, has anyone got currency?

 

[Whomp]

I have no problem researching construction since it's leverage in negotiations with MIA.

MIA and TNT have currency.

 

[Tubby Rower]

Why couldn't we run min research on Construction. We haven't signed anything to my knowledge to get Construction in a certain number of turns..... BTW, DO NOT MAKE A # OF TURNS FOR ANY TECH. we don't want to limit ourselves into max research if we don't have to.

IMO, they can keep Poly and we could trade for it. min run on Construction would give us a chance to extend the AA until we get enough GS. Whether we use them on MIA, TNT, D'nut, or Rik, they will be more useful the less techs everyone has. Also by slowing down the tech rate the risk of a GL build across the seas will be less.

Or we can let the other continent research it and trade Republic for it to do to MIA what they have done to us. (Basically they have traded for half of their techs and are "claiming" full value on them as if they researched them.

 

[Tubby Rower]

this is almost as good as a chat room

MIA should be giving everything except poly, construction, and Monarchy when we get Republic. If that doesn't happen then so be it. We will get the techs by other means.

 

[Kickbooti]

I just re-read some of the posts and I realized I was less than clear in my proposal.

I agree with Tubs, I don't know that eight turns is going to make a difference (except working on a harbor would be nice...).

But if we NEED the techs now, send MIA some money with the understanding that they hold that sum until we send Republic - then they send it back.

It would be an earnest, a pledge on our part that they are not simply sending their techs into a black hole. If they have a 'hot-head' group in Greece, it may asuage their fears.

After all, just becuase they're paranoid doesn't mean we're not out to get them.

 

[Tubby Rower]

harbors and markets can be pre-built using libraries. I'll try to figure out when would be appropriate to start a pre-build.

 

[Rik Meleet]

(..)IMO, they can keep Poly and we could trade for it. min run on Construction would give us a chance to extend the AA until we get enough GS. Whether we use them on MIA, TNT, D'nut, or Rik, they will be more useful the less techs everyone has. (..)

 

[gmaharriet]

After all, just becuase they're paranoid doesn't mean we're not out to get them.

When you look at the military plans we've been discussing, they have every right to feel paranoid. It's not like we haven't even talked about it.

 

[Daghdha]

Or we can let the other continent research it and trade Republic for it to do to MIA what they have done to us. (Basically they have traded for half of their techs and are "claiming" full value on them as if they researched them.

I agree that MIA has taken a big advantage of the fact that we've been on a long cycle for rep and unable to trade techs. The "problem" is that there is (a) nothing in our agreement says they weren't allowed to do that, (b) they did tell us in advance (see spoiler) and (c) IIRC we insisted on doing Republic.

Spoiler :

fe3333au: Bernie are you saying you didn't know about the trade deal between us and Nuts and TNT?
bawhomp: i looked at the email yesterday but it may have been filed
fe3333au: gee ... this is the confusing thing ... I assume when I tell things to Tubby or Daghie it gets passed on ... Skippy I assume otherwise ;-)
fe3333au: So sorry if you think MIA is not being open
bawhomp: not at all
bawhomp: it doesn't seem they've posted the discussion...hmmm...
bawhomp: ok i see something about you having maths now
fe3333au: good I was beginning to worry
bawhomp: They didn't post the conversation but I see that you have it
fe3333au: ok ... we purchased Maths for WC, CB and Wheel ... + 12gp
bawhomp: ok i don't see the email
fe3333au: then swapped HBR for Maths with Nuts
bawhomp: nice

D'nut is trying to double dip by trading with MIA. So the plan is that we will no longer trade with D'nut because they have traded with MIA. MIA-D'nut deal should be inked soon and once that is done, MIA will "trade" all of the AA techs for our CoL, Philo, & Republic. Then D'nut will be left with no government but Despoism and we move on to the MA.

This is what should happen within a few turns IMO.
What we might suggest MIA to do is to send the techs they have not researched themselves asap if this is what bugs us..?
Side note: I would do anything to keep them believing that we will hit the other continent when we have chiv and/or muskets, thus not trading rep. overseas. If MIA takes the bait they will not focus on military but pursue the scientific path and when we do have Feud + Chiv we hit them instead. If things go our way, and the war overseas continue, it might be room enough left to drop settlers for a domination win .

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

I would do anything to keep them believing that we will hit the other continent when we have chiv and/or muskets, thus not trading rep. overseas.

agree

If MIA takes the bait they will not focus on military but pursue the scientific path and when we do have Feud + Chiv we hit them instead. If things go our way, and the war overseas continue, it might be room enough left to drop settlers for a domination win

I don't see the benefit in waiting until feud to whack someone. negates our mini knights

 

[Daghdha]

If we do the deal with MIA and enter the MA on tech parity I would like a new treaty to look like something like this:
1. MIA starts researching towards Education
2. KISS starts on other MA techs TBD
3. When Education is discovered it will be trade to KISS in excange for MA techs with the addition of gold in case of differences in research cost.
4. When KISS decides to declare war overseas, MIA will aid by not in any way helping KISS's opponents with gold, techs or rescourses.
5. KISS will raze all cities captured on Battle Island and will not establish new ones.
6. When both TNT and Doughnuts are eliminated neither MIA, nor KISS, are allowed to attack their opponent without a 10 turn warning and allowing the defending civ the first strike.

One q is how to handle the free tech...I don't know. Also how to handle different scenarios depending on what tech they will get. The main idea with this is to keep them disarmed and in the belief we will ship a fleet covering the fact that we will be strong vs them. We can also attack them without a 10 turn notice if we do it before education is discovered and we don't have to give the feudalism, all without breaking the deal.
But, a big one, this depends a lot on whet mother RNG has to say about that free tech.
Just random thought....

 

[Tubby Rower]

(..)IMO, they can keep Poly and we could trade for it. min run on Construction would give us a chance to extend the AA until we get enough GS. Whether we use them on MIA, TNT, D'nut, or Rik, they will be more useful the less techs everyone has. (..)

Just making sure that you are still paying attention

 

[Sir Bugsy]

5. KISS will raze all cities captured on Battle Island and will not establish new ones.

I don't like this idea. There is no flip risk. It gains us nothing and lengthens the game. If we're over there we keep cities and start settling. Shortest way to domination.

 

[Daghdha]

Yes, but the idea was that we eliminate MIA before we ever enter those galleys. There will be no MIA to watch over #5, they will by the be The Real MIA. The parts that concern warfare and peace are just smoke. When MIA is gone we, hopefully still having a tech lead, can start filling empty slots/attack overseas as soon as cavs are in.

 

[Daghdha]

Sorry for not editing this . In this conversation with fe my main goals are to keep a happy face, explain our concerns about their trading and open up for a deal that allows us to hit them before they grow too strong. I didn't stress that some of my fellow celts think they can stick any agreements somewhere because I don't think that would've helped us in any way. I'm pleased to note that MIA is explicitly enjoyed at me mentioning an overseas invasion of Nuts. If we can get them to agree on a RoP for short shipping down south that would be great. Then we have to phrase any treaty so we can whipe 'em while in the heart of their land...no sneaking needed.
What we have to do first is to decide on whether we want to continue the alliance at all. Of course I vote yes (until we hit that is). Second is to agree on which of Construction/Poly we want to do. I say Poly to get us first into MA so we can decide to do Feud. Third is to decide if we would agree to a non-trading overseas deal or some restriction in that regard.
Please discuss

Spoiler :

fe3333au: This is why I was confused why you went slow burn on research
sixpackholiday: yes, you do have a point there but the game mechanics says no big difference in turns
sixpackholiday: 4-5 that's all
sixpackholiday: we did get some cash and burnt it on embassies
sixpackholiday: but i hope you've recieved the screenies
fe3333au: Yes thanks
fe3333au: But let me say this
sixpackholiday: that's most part of the gold we made on that
fe3333au: I spoke to Tubby he said we get Republic in 33 turns and that it could not be speeded up ... then suddenly it became 20 turns
fe3333au: so please don't say that it is only 4 or 5 turns
fe3333au: It is only 4 or 5 turns once we asked why it was going so slow
sixpackholiday: i don't know where he got that from or if i am missing something
fe3333au: It was a chat with Tubby
sixpackholiday: i only know that i recognize that from epics
sixpackholiday: so i haven't questioned that
fe3333au: and when I said to him we have MM and would not give it up until we got republic ... then it became 20 turns
sixpackholiday: i'd have to go back and open the saves to be able to say something accurate on that
fe3333au: Anyway ... we are adamant that we will not give techs early
fe3333au: as per agreement that you actually wrote
sixpackholiday: dictionary time brb
fe3333au: adamant is we are firm in our resolve
sixpackholiday: ok, dead set.....lol
fe3333au: in our stance
sixpackholiday: eh....stubborn
fe3333au: LOL ... yes stubborn
fe3333au: from your point of view
sixpackholiday: I don't think that you holding on is that big a problem
sixpackholiday: i don't hope so
fe3333au: so if that is not an issue ... what is?
sixpackholiday: i'm not bringing in a big issue here
sixpackholiday: let me try to explain
sixpackholiday: easy now...
fe3333au: I only want to know why things seem stressed ... when things should be cool and groovey
fe3333au: ok
sixpackholiday: we agreed on a deal that locked us up for a long time
sixpackholiday: we sort of chosed to do republic
sixpackholiday: not foced to
sixpackholiday: that has left us sitting on a fence
sixpackholiday: watching trading go on
sixpackholiday: while not being able to do anything
sixpackholiday: the techs that you will pay for rep
sixpackholiday: are all over the place
sixpackholiday: the agreement didn't say you couldn't do that
sixpackholiday: so no fault from your side
sixpackholiday: but people have gotten a bit frustrated by watching this
sixpackholiday: and to some extent you have informed us about the trades
sixpackholiday: and then some have just happened
sixpackholiday: i think the last one with TNT made our jaws drop to the floor
sixpackholiday: whatever good intentions you had
sixpackholiday: we've been bystanders
sixpackholiday: that is hard for some to take without getting jittery
sixpackholiday: and somewhat irritated
sixpackholiday: we feel left out
sixpackholiday: although no formal wrong doings from your side
sixpackholiday: i think that is the reason for the hesitation
sixpackholiday: i have all the time stressed that the treaty says what it says
sixpackholiday: and that it was a kind of vague one
sixpackholiday: in some respects
sixpackholiday: we will have to live with that if MIA won't acknowledge that and cut some slack
sixpackholiday: we put our seal on it so.....
sixpackholiday: i don't think there is any big mistrust that you will not fullfill your part
sixpackholiday: nothing in threads about that
sixpackholiday: well....
fe3333au: my turn ?
sixpackholiday: shoot buddy
fe3333au: Thanks for the open account of your side of things
fe3333au: I suspected something like that
fe3333au: The trades we done were done with the full intent of speeding our (KISSMIA) lead
fe3333au: and we did fantastic deals
fe3333au: we now only have 2 techs after the swap to research
fe3333au: So are we agreed that one of us will research Poly and the orther Construction?
sixpackholiday: AFAIK Yes
fe3333au: I am assuming that we still want to have an Alliance ... it would seem silly not to
sixpackholiday: i do think so
fe3333au: so I have sent you some proposed agreements
fe3333au: 1. We do not trade with any Battle Islanders anymore
sixpackholiday: as long as they keep fighting we can expand and reseach and make our lead even bigger
fe3333au: I am sure they will approach us for deals
fe3333au: we should keep each other informed
sixpackholiday: they will
fe3333au: and only trade if we both agree
fe3333au: if one says no ... then we cannot ...
sixpackholiday: I think that's perfectly cool
sixpackholiday: but
fe3333au: My reason is that I feel you would only want to trade with Nuts
fe3333au: and we don't want them getting strong
sixpackholiday: then again i feel that that was what was missing up until now
fe3333au: and we would probably want to trade little things with TNT ... which would make them be more of a threat to Nuts
fe3333au: and you don't want that
sixpackholiday: suddenly when we have a very powerful tech, trading is off, but when you had the possibilty to trade everything just floated around
sixpackholiday: I think that can be regarded as....unfair?
fe3333au: but our trading was not giving advantage to them
sixpackholiday: you know what...
fe3333au: we traded small tech and got very big techs in return
fe3333au: and we tryed to trade the same techs to each of them ... so neither got advantaged over the other
sixpackholiday: i know that you're intentions probably were good
sixpackholiday: and maybe your trades was good for both of us
sixpackholiday: i'm not a numbers guy remember
sixpackholiday: but this has not so much to do with rational #'s maybe
fe3333au: itbhas to do with TNT getting techs
sixpackholiday: a brief "what would you say about this" would've sufficed
fe3333au: I did mention it before it happened
sixpackholiday: the first deal i know
sixpackholiday: i didn't pass it on
sixpackholiday: and i have taken the blame for it
fe3333au: Anyway what is done is done ... and the next Agreement will be written better
sixpackholiday: i've said "fe told me, so don't blame him"
fe3333au: thanks
sixpackholiday: the last one was a chock
sixpackholiday: and we felt totally left outside
fe3333au: I undersatnd
fe3333au: *understand
fe3333au: So shall we discuss the next step
sixpackholiday: just a minute..
sixpackholiday: i'd like this alliance to work well and be maintained
sixpackholiday: i advocate that a lot within team
fe3333au: me too
sixpackholiday: most agree
fe3333au: us too
sixpackholiday: you sent math which was a nice gesture
sixpackholiday: and much appreciated
fe3333au: we didn't even have to debate that one ... everyone agreed
fe3333au: well all 5 of us LOL
sixpackholiday: we gave you the screenies as compensation for the g's we made on slow research
sixpackholiday: we have made nice moves both of us
sixpackholiday: and some not so nice
sixpackholiday: we will try to avoid those from now on
fe3333au: that was very welcomed ... we did check that you sending your capital was ok before we looked
fe3333au: in fact I havn't looked yet LOL
sixpackholiday: yes, i blacked out some areas as not to violate rules
sixpackholiday: nothing spectacular
fe3333au: we having nominations for elections now ... gosh the turns are moving fast
sixpackholiday: would you feel it to be ok if you made an official note on that last deal
sixpackholiday: it would ease some peoples minds i guess
sixpackholiday: why you didn't let us know anything
fe3333au: I will relook at the chat logs ... I could have sworn i told someone
fe3333au: However the deal was for currency
sixpackholiday: maybe you did...i don't know
sixpackholiday: everyone was ga-ga
fe3333au: But I will appologize iif it is needed
sixpackholiday: don't know if needed
sixpackholiday: but it would feel right
fe3333au: ok I will ... not now ... but send some form of letter relating to that specific trade soon
sixpackholiday: cool
fe3333au: before you finish republic LOL
sixpackholiday: good thing, heh
fe3333au: So shall we speak of the future?
sixpackholiday: ok
fe3333au: I see after republic and we give you everything we have including HBR ... which Whomp didn't want
fe3333au: we need to decide who researches what
fe3333au: Poly and Construction ... what do you want to research?
sixpackholiday: assuming no deal with overseas?
fe3333au: We need that agreed to as well
fe3333au: because we acnnot have you trading Republic to Nuts
fe3333au: Nuts are too strong as it is
fe3333au: and they are our biggest threat
fe3333au: We also have to discuss who will go and research Education
fe3333au: so we agree to not swap anymore unless both KISS and MIA agree
sixpackholiday: i cannot give an absolute Yes
sixpackholiday: this will have to be decided by team
sixpackholiday: a very big undertaking
fe3333au: I understand I just want to have both teams discussing this and then having dialogue with each other
sixpackholiday: for both of us
fe3333au: yes
sixpackholiday: it's a crucial part of a new agreement
fe3333au: It in itself is the ultimate handshake that will prove to all that we trust each other and are totally committed to our Alliance
sixpackholiday: would trading to TNT be ok for you?
sixpackholiday: rep that is
fe3333au: only if you agreed
fe3333au: personally I would not want this
sixpackholiday: only if you agree that is
sixpackholiday: i think we would be very displeased by you selling rep to TNT
fe3333au: I would too
fe3333au: I think thay have played stupidly and do not want to award them for it
fe3333au: but at the same time a wael TNT is better for you
fe3333au: but a strong Nuts is bad for us
sixpackholiday: We will go there and whack both of 'em anyway
fe3333au: I'd like them to have wasted resources on each other LOL
sixpackholiday: peace on green continent let's us move the bulk of mil overseas
fe3333au: anyway assuming that we agree to no trade unless both parties agree to it
fe3333au: the next thing is you decide which of the remaining two techs to research and we will research the other
fe3333au: Then we are both into Middle Ages
sixpackholiday: it's dicussed already
sixpackholiday: no decision made
fe3333au: The only threat to our tech lead is the Great Library
sixpackholiday: different opinions
sixpackholiday: maybe we vote
fe3333au: yes ... good idea
sixpackholiday: yeah, GLib is a worry
fe3333au: so one of us must go for Education
fe3333au: while the other researches other techs
sixpackholiday: i saw you proposed MIA to do that
sixpackholiday: i think that will be ok
fe3333au: we cannot swap until education has been discovered
fe3333au: Problem is our free tech
fe3333au: what if we get feudalism
sixpackholiday: yeah...
sixpackholiday: hmm..
fe3333au: that means you will have to go for Educatiuon while we go for other techs
sixpackholiday: if you get Mono no probs
fe3333au: agreed
sixpackholiday: you're faster and Edu is in a hurry
sixpackholiday: i think you're faster...
fe3333au: but if we get Feudalism then you will need feudalism to research anything else
sixpackholiday: how could we pay you for Feud or Eng?
fe3333au: and that means 2 techs are known and the great Libraty will give it to the other team
fe3333au: what you mean pay?
sixpackholiday: hmm...you're right. prob is we both know it then
sixpackholiday: sloppy thinking
sixpackholiday: i thought we could somehow pay for feud if you got it
fe3333au: so maybe MIA only go for Education if we get Mono for fee?
fe3333au: *free
sixpackholiday: if we cannot solve that issue otherwise...
fe3333au: The greemant would be that we swap all techs we know to each other ... that way we are equal
sixpackholiday: when edu is in?
fe3333au: after Education has been discovered
sixpackholiday: yes.....hmm
fe3333au: I know that means we will probably be researching military tech ... would that make things uneasy amonst your team?
sixpackholiday: don't know....maybe...
sixpackholiday: some sort of peace deal could go with it
fe3333au: I can't see any other way ... but am open for you to send us a proposal
sixpackholiday: also if were to do mil techs you would want a non aggression deal i presume
fe3333au: of course we could swap one tech when you start Educatiion if there is no evidence that the Great Library is being built
fe3333au: I would expect no less ... we would have to make such a deal
sixpackholiday: either we decide on how to handle different free tech scenarios in advance
sixpackholiday: or we wait to see what mother rng says
sixpackholiday: and have a nice sit down at the camp fire then
sixpackholiday: first thing to decide is Const. or Poly
fe3333au: I'd prefer to know how we are entering the Middle Ages together
fe3333au: yes poly or const
fe3333au: but before that ... we must agree to a no trading with others clause
sixpackholiday: yes
fe3333au: because we all know Nuts have it
sixpackholiday: would be good to have those 2 issues solved
fe3333au: and we don't want Nuts to be so much better than TNT that they wipe TNT out before we get to Battle Isle
sixpackholiday: Nuts have what?
fe3333au: it is scary for us ... because they are nearest to us
fe3333au: Poly
sixpackholiday: aha
fe3333au: or they will in 1 or 2 turns
sixpackholiday: and MPP's are far away....lol
fe3333au: MPP ??
sixpackholiday: Mutual P Pacts
fe3333au: yes
fe3333au: although we could agree to this type of thing surely?
sixpackholiday: Dunno?
sixpackholiday: Military alliance only available
fe3333au: me neather ... but if you were being atacked ... and you asked for help ... we would help
fe3333au: so it has already happened
sixpackholiday: a grey zone in the rules i suppose
sixpackholiday: we could ask admins
fe3333au: yes
fe3333au: but no biggy
fe3333au: If you asked for help we would help
sixpackholiday: goes both ways
sixpackholiday: we will ask for "help" when times come to sail
fe3333au: but at the same time if you attack TNT ... it may be difficult for us to do anything because of distance
fe3333au: but we will do what we can
sixpackholiday: Enemy is to be decided. I'd prefer the strongest first
fe3333au: but we will discuss this when the time comes
sixpackholiday: prolly Nuts
fe3333au: how many on your team agree to that?
sixpackholiday: An rop with you so we can ship from south
sixpackholiday: most seem to think that is the way to go
sixpackholiday: but pros and cons of course
sixpackholiday: distance
fe3333au: oh that is good news to hear ... thanks for sharing LOL
sixpackholiday: you like Nuts to be crushed right?
fe3333au: yessixpackholiday: maybe a rop with TNT could work
sixpackholiday: but i think it would me more of a surprise if we landed at S-field
fe3333au: hmmm ... we must discuss this development later ... once our agreements are in place
sixpackholiday: yes certanly
fe3333au: cos I have to go for 10minutes
sixpackholiday: ok, so 1 Poly or Constr. 2. Trade stop or not
fe3333au: yes
sixpackholiday: good I'll bring it in
fe3333au: must be agree to very soon
sixpackholiday: some 7 turns i think
fe3333au: cos we almost ready to start researching
sixpackholiday: give us deadline
fe3333au: I'll tell you now ... we don't mind researching the biggest one ... but only if we agreee to no trade
fe3333au: 3ish turns
fe3333au: is that ok?
fe3333au: before Xmas LOL
sixpackholiday: think so...yes.lol
fe3333au: good I must go to toilet now I'llbe back
sixpackholiday: The Greens will have a very happy new year
sixpackholiday: I'll have to go soon too. The most urging matters are line out. after that we can have a discussion on how to handle the free tech issue and the road to Education, then we discuss how you can help us in invading Battle Island. I take it you might have worries about us reaching domination limit whan invading so that has to be thought over.
sixpackholiday: An idea: If we enter MA first we get to choose the tech and could start feud or inv to raise the probability of mono for you, am i right? in that perspective the cheapest, Poly, would be our choise..
fe3333au: ok ... I'll await a proper letter yes?
sixpackholiday: wait a sec
fe3333au: k
sixpackholiday: sorry...kids, lol
fe3333au: k
sixpackholiday: well yes, i'll ask someone who can actually express these things accurately to write something up
fe3333au: and understand the game machine better than I
sixpackholiday: the illitterate negotiating with the stupid
sixpackholiday: whadda sub-team
fe3333au: so something will be sent to MIA g-mail box
sixpackholiday: i'll see to it
fe3333au: just in case I am awol
fe3333au: excellent
fe3333au: I feel good about this
sixpackholiday: me too
fe3333au: I hope your team will as well ... I know MIA will be happy
sixpackholiday: I'll do my best to keep them happy
sixpackholiday: with most is no probs
fe3333au: maybe reason we have so few active players is that all the war mongers got boarded because there was no-one to attack LOL
fe3333au: *bored
sixpackholiday: heh, just growing and building
fe3333au: yes
sixpackholiday: my kind of fun
fe3333au: mine too
fe3333au: Im hope it is a space age race
sixpackholiday: we'll let the dogs loose overseas
fe3333au: yes
fe3333au: Whomp is in London now with Rik
fe3333au: and Ram and others
sixpackholiday: i saw that, hope they have fun
sixpackholiday: some convention?
fe3333au: no just piss up
sixpackholiday: LOL
sixpackholiday: Ram's on MIA right?
fe3333au: Whomp on business and i guess things just developed from there
fe3333au: not really
fe3333au: he left
fe3333au: I've asked Whomp to ask him why
fe3333au: matybe not his thing
sixpackholiday: could be, strange kind of civving it is
sixpackholiday: almost no play time
fe3333au: yes
sixpackholiday: just a lot of posting
fe3333au: Rik was saying MIA have a lot more posts than some of the other teams
sixpackholiday: cool
fe3333au: so I guess you and us are having more fun
fe3333au: among our teams
sixpackholiday: i'm certain
sixpackholiday: i've almost stopped epics
sixpackholiday: wiered..
fe3333au: epics?
sixpackholiday: anyway, talk to ya later.......solo games
fe3333au: i see
fe3333au: cya
sixpackholiday: bye matey

 

[Bede]

If we can get to a No Trades with the other island agreement and use our announced intention to move on "Nuts when the time comes I ceratinly have no problem with any proposed agreement.

And don't let the free tech issue become a burr under our saddle. It is almost a non-issue when you consider the relative difference in our power to research or make war as we please. As long as we keep pushing the AGRI trait to its limits and spreading our tint of green over the world.

Any notion that we go to war on the other island and agree not to establish any towns or keep any captured ones is a really bad one. If the situation develops in such a way that a domination victory is feasible and within our grasp we will indeed go for it. And in any case we will need all the land and population we can get our hands on to support the empire.

If we can do them a perceived favor by stinging the Doughnuts we are more than happy to help, but once we do it is ours all ours.

 

[Daghdha]

we need to write someting up and i don't feel like the one to do it really but i will offer a sketch to revise (or discard ). we have room to trade but will not be allowed to send rep. to nuts. mia cannot do trades without our agreement either. we do the rep deal in 2 steps just to assure no side will be hosed totally. we will do poly which i believe we can finish some turns before mia does construction (more beakers + anarchy if they choose to switch gov immediately), we can then wait for them on zero research and stack some gold. we will be first to go into ma and can thereby choose feudalism. please comment in any way. note that this is just a draft by an idiot .

AGREEMENT BETWEEN KISS AND MIA ON TRADING AND RESEARCH

1. AFTER REPUBLIC IS DISCOVERED BY KISS AND SENT TO MIA IN EXCANGE FOR THE TECHS MIA HAS AND KISS HAS NOT, TRADING OVERSEAS CANNOT BE DONE BY ONE PART WITHOUT THE APPROVAL FROM THE OTHER.

2. WITHIN THE SAME TURN KISS DISCOVERS REPUBLIC MIA WILL SEND CURRENCY AND HBR. WHEN RECIVED, KISS SENDS REPUBLIC IN RETURN. ON THE FOLLOWING TURN MIA COMPLETES THE TRADE BY SENDING MAPMAKING AND LITTERATURE.

3. MIA WILL START RESEARCHING CONSTRUCTION WHILE KISS STARTS ON POLYETHISM. THE TEAM FINISHING THEIR RESEARCH FIRST WILL THEN WAIT ON THE OTHER. WHEN THE SECOND TECH (CONSTRUCTION OR POLYETHISM) IS FINISHED IT WILL BE SENT TO THE ALLIED CIV (MIA OR KISS) WHICH WILL RECIPROCATE BY SENDING THE TECH FINISHED (CONSTRUCTION OR POLYETHISM).

 

[Tubby Rower]

the only thing that I would change is the parenthetical (x or y) so line up so that KISS and Poly are always last or always first. It's kind of cornfusing to have them jumbled up.

 

[Daghdha]

Interesting ideeeed. Of course it could be true but what's the possibilities on that? And how can they explain that said GH is intact on our turn after theirs? Anyone familiar with mechanics know about this? This stupid Idiot would think that if they popped Poly the GH would be gone by now...
Another interesting aspect is that Nuts should have finished Poly just by now. Do we sense some sort of hidden alliance here . Question is, do we play along pretending that we are indeed Idiots or do we tell 'em to shove it? Since we already decided on hitting MIA we could just tag along and pretend we believe them. If we choose to nail them, diplomatically speaking, we spur them to start producing military...
Then again we can just lean on our current deal that states MIA give us ALL their techs for Republic and from no on that includes Poly

Dear KISSers

In the spirit of the renewal of faith and trust between our great peoples, I swiftly send this update.

In a truly Chinese sense, we live in interesting times. Just when things seemed to be close to reaching an understanding with a renewal of faith between us growing, our luck has borne fruit, the dancing fruit of Polyeithsm freshly popped from our last hut.

I never thought a day would come when I curse the popping of knowledge

What to do, how do we address our good ... ummm ... fortune ???

Off the top of my head ... are three options.

1. A possible solution is that one team research Construction, while the other team pay an equitable rate to the one who is set on maximum science rate.

2. Another is that we manipulate another team to research it for us both, while we both accumulate money.

3. The final is for KISS to research Construction. This would address the equity and compensation issue of MIA receiving a free Middle Age technology.

As you can see I am being absolutely transparent ... I would hear your thoughts on this ...


Regards


Feaurius III
MIA Foreign Minister