Daghdha
Absent Minded
I will post this without comments. My spamming starts to take on ridiculous proportins 
.
.Spoiler :
Diplo for MIA
- Thread starter Tubby Rower
- Start date
This whole relationship is starting to make my head spin. MIA gets Poly with 0 sunk cost and then they get another freebie on the entry to the Middle Ages.
We are talking about 2000 beakers worth of techs here for 0 outlay on their part, so any discussion of cost parity is no more than the product of a bull's tail end.
OTOH we are spending down to get to Republic which will benefit them more than us in the short run, regardless of the techs received for it.
This is really out of whack. But I don't know how to balance it.
How about putting some GS on boats, sailing down the coast and wiping out Athens?
We are talking about 2000 beakers worth of techs here for 0 outlay on their part, so any discussion of cost parity is no more than the product of a bull's tail end.
OTOH we are spending down to get to Republic which will benefit them more than us in the short run, regardless of the techs received for it.
This is really out of whack. But I don't know how to balance it.
How about putting some GS on boats, sailing down the coast and wiping out Athens?
Tubby Rower
Chronic Slacker
I too am slightly concerned with their attitude. Since Chamnix has come to power they have been very snooty. Acting as if they had a stack of swords outside our borders.
I'm still for trading Republic with ONLY the other continent. I think that MIA would be shocked by that turn of events. We would just need to make sure that the other continent has everything that MIA could trade for Republic.
PM me for for details. I won't speak of this again, although I think that there are very interesting possiblities in this course of action. But it would involve peace talks on the other continent and a dogpile on MIA. But that's it for now.
I'm still for trading Republic with ONLY the other continent. I think that MIA would be shocked by that turn of events. We would just need to make sure that the other continent has everything that MIA could trade for Republic.
PM me for for details. I won't speak of this again, although I think that there are very interesting possiblities in this course of action. But it would involve peace talks on the other continent and a dogpile on MIA. But that's it for now.
Admiral Kutzov
Idiot Emeritus
Everyone sit down.
I'm having self-preceived moment of clarity (slinger can probably relate, it involves beer).
here are the thoughts igor told me to write down in no particular order:
1. ain't nobody else got settler/worker pumps
2. FE is a drunken idiot (like someody else you all know), but that don't make him our friend.
3. I have yet to see any compelling reason to continue most favored nation status with MIA
4. Let's tell TNT or Nuts to Sh** or get off the pot. Either they share and commit for 30 turns or the gloves are off and they may expect GS on their continent at anytime.
5. Does anyelse really think we can't take down the other three combined? We could always recruit Handy if we get in a AW.
Sorry, I'm feeling beligerent tonight.
I'm having self-preceived moment of clarity (slinger can probably relate, it involves beer).
here are the thoughts igor told me to write down in no particular order:
1. ain't nobody else got settler/worker pumps
2. FE is a drunken idiot (like someody else you all know), but that don't make him our friend.
3. I have yet to see any compelling reason to continue most favored nation status with MIA
4. Let's tell TNT or Nuts to Sh** or get off the pot. Either they share and commit for 30 turns or the gloves are off and they may expect GS on their continent at anytime.
5. Does anyelse really think we can't take down the other three combined? We could always recruit Handy if we get in a AW.
Sorry, I'm feeling beligerent tonight.
Tubby Rower
Chronic Slacker
#1 is inaccurate. during our time of no settlers, Chamnix has been developing a small empire to our south. They have a settler pump, no doubt about it. Worker pump is likely since we are strong vs them.
The rest, I'm with AK on. I think even a 3 vs 1 would be interesting right now.
The rest, I'm with AK on. I think even a 3 vs 1 would be interesting right now.
Daghdha
Absent Minded
Next on agenda is how to handle the diplo with MIA so they don't suspect us coming or should we just say "deals are off, we're whacking you anyday". As noted before I believe MIA has better relations with Nuts than we thing. If we want to ally overseas I'd choose TNT.
Get all TNT's techs (most important currency) we don't have for Philo + CoL, then trade currency to Nuts for any missing techs (especially Poly). No one gets Republic and we start construction...coffee anyone?
Get all TNT's techs (most important currency) we don't have for Philo + CoL, then trade currency to Nuts for any missing techs (especially Poly). No one gets Republic and we start construction...coffee anyone?
Tubby Rower
Chronic Slacker
Trading Republic to the other continent might be the best thing that we could do.... I talked to nobody last night and they are scared of getting "played". Apparently MIA has been researching the cost of our wines. Nobody thought that it might be an indication that they may be preparing to invade.
AK had a talk with fe last night about our un-easiness of Chamnix as the turnplayer. He also raved about King Kong as being one of the best movies ever. 3.5 hours with a prgnant woman ain't going to happen with me, so we just watched the Chronicles of Narnia.
Once the email gets to my work address (it's been taking a while lately), I'll trim AK's conversation down and post it here per his request.
AK had a talk with fe last night about our un-easiness of Chamnix as the turnplayer. He also raved about King Kong as being one of the best movies ever. 3.5 hours with a prgnant woman ain't going to happen with me, so we just watched the Chronicles of Narnia.
Once the email gets to my work address (it's been taking a while lately), I'll trim AK's conversation down and post it here per his request.
Daghdha
Absent Minded
I get the opposite feeling about this. Nobody Nut is dropping suggestions all over the place. He wants an alliance that allows Nuts to support MIA in a war with us without having to show up (unless TNT joins), he says MIA is asking about wines and thus are planning to invade, he tells Whomp he thinks we could beat MIA...
I ask myself, what is the purpous of this consistent line of reasoning? My answer is, Nuts wants war on this continent to stop us from growing bigger. If Nuts are to support any team it has to be MIA and remember MIA has on several occasions said that they are sooo afraid of Nutters. I don't believe them any longer. I believe they have started talks on how to prevent us from running away. If we are starting to think we could manage a 3-1 dogpile they are seeing that too and must act accordingly.
To me MIA was a perfectly fine partner until they decided to break our deal by refusing to send Poly as a part of the agreement. They have pointed to it when we thought it was unfair and we, that is very much including myself, has accepted that and waited paitently. No things have changed somewhat and therefore it should be ok to strech the rules to their advantage. That pi55es me off big time.
If we are to ally overseas I see TNT as the best partner atm, but I suggest we stay out of alliances, trade freely and build muscles, and we should definately explore the possibilities of cathing up in tech without trading Rep. If MM or HBR has to be done by ourselves than fine, we'll soon do it at lightning speed anyway.
I ask myself, what is the purpous of this consistent line of reasoning? My answer is, Nuts wants war on this continent to stop us from growing bigger. If Nuts are to support any team it has to be MIA and remember MIA has on several occasions said that they are sooo afraid of Nutters. I don't believe them any longer. I believe they have started talks on how to prevent us from running away. If we are starting to think we could manage a 3-1 dogpile they are seeing that too and must act accordingly.
To me MIA was a perfectly fine partner until they decided to break our deal by refusing to send Poly as a part of the agreement. They have pointed to it when we thought it was unfair and we, that is very much including myself, has accepted that and waited paitently. No things have changed somewhat and therefore it should be ok to strech the rules to their advantage. That pi55es me off big time.
If we are to ally overseas I see TNT as the best partner atm, but I suggest we stay out of alliances, trade freely and build muscles, and we should definately explore the possibilities of cathing up in tech without trading Rep. If MM or HBR has to be done by ourselves than fine, we'll soon do it at lightning speed anyway.
Tubby Rower
Chronic Slacker
Team IAMIDIOT
Daghdha
Absent Minded
It is also in my post #160 and that, plus the conversation also posted, is why I think MIA is about to wreck our partnership. Tubby, please take a look at said post and see what you have to say about that GH-pop.
Tubby Rower
Chronic Slacker
sorry... I miss stuff. I guess once it turned the page, I assumed that post 161 was the ONLY new post. I thought that that information sounded familiar. 
Crakie
Soupnazi
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2004
- Messages
- 527
I am not involved in the actual diplo, which has obvious disadvantages, but it may also create a helpful detachment of matters. In that capacity, I would like to share a few thoughts:
1) MIA is said to be stretching the rules to their advantage. I agree, but I also think it could have been us doing the stretching, had the circumstances been different. A little healthy backstabbing is part of this special, all human opponent game.
2) What MIA's stretching does prove, is that they are not the kind of ally we wanted them to be. So be it. Personally, I was never that fond of a too interdependent relationship. ACTING like we have that kind of relationship is fine, but that doesn't mean we should decide our course within the confinements it poses. Correct me if I am wrong, but I get the impression MIA understood this concept a little better than we did. I think I said it before, we might have been a little naive.
3) There is alot of foggazing going on, and well into completely uncovered tiles, so to speak. What I mean is reading between the lines, second guessing etc. Now as I said, I am not part of the diplo team, but in my opinion these should have little or no place in our decisions. Let's stick to the facts and rational projections for deciding our course on an objective basis.
4) Related to point 3, we should be very careful with what we share with our opponents. Right now, for example, I consider it very dangerous to inquire into an alliance with TNT or Nuts. Maybe later, but not now. All in all there is a danger with getting a little too chummy with the people the diplo team speaks to on a sort of daily basis. Either do not let them see our cards at all, or show them every card in the deck, either way they won't know a thing.
I should add this is by no means intended as criticism to the diplo team... you guys do a great job!
1) MIA is said to be stretching the rules to their advantage. I agree, but I also think it could have been us doing the stretching, had the circumstances been different. A little healthy backstabbing is part of this special, all human opponent game.
2) What MIA's stretching does prove, is that they are not the kind of ally we wanted them to be. So be it. Personally, I was never that fond of a too interdependent relationship. ACTING like we have that kind of relationship is fine, but that doesn't mean we should decide our course within the confinements it poses. Correct me if I am wrong, but I get the impression MIA understood this concept a little better than we did. I think I said it before, we might have been a little naive.
3) There is alot of foggazing going on, and well into completely uncovered tiles, so to speak. What I mean is reading between the lines, second guessing etc. Now as I said, I am not part of the diplo team, but in my opinion these should have little or no place in our decisions. Let's stick to the facts and rational projections for deciding our course on an objective basis.
4) Related to point 3, we should be very careful with what we share with our opponents. Right now, for example, I consider it very dangerous to inquire into an alliance with TNT or Nuts. Maybe later, but not now. All in all there is a danger with getting a little too chummy with the people the diplo team speaks to on a sort of daily basis. Either do not let them see our cards at all, or show them every card in the deck, either way they won't know a thing.
I should add this is by no means intended as criticism to the diplo team... you guys do a great job!
Indeed Crakie. Loose lips sink ships and SOD's. Sweet as can be is the way to play this until the time comes to relinquish our fury.Crakie said:
I didn't recall seeing this posted but here's a note sent to us by Fe3333au. He is a consumate diplomat but the story remains the same for me. What incentive do we have getting them to the MA without our own benefit? I can't see an equitable means of receiving their tech without them feeling shortchanged. To me this means slow their pace by forcing them to research construction while they're in anarchy and we trade for poly and work the MA path we want.
The note...
Dear friends in KISS
It is with true and weighted heart that I kneel at your feet and offer apologies to the perceived lack of consultation when it came to our last trade with TNT.
I honestly thought that I had discussed it with some idiot prior to the deal being made. It was always with a big picture view that I entertained knowledge swapping and have shown that the deals were beneficial to the Green Alliance and neutral at best for the Battle Islanders.
I take full responsibility for all actions, my team mates were in no way accountable. Perhaps we can put my crime down to over zealousness to collect as many technologies for the Alliance as possible for little cost. We can also add to this the swiftness of the game turns being sent.
I trust this will suffice and understand if I must now sharpen my own pencils
Yours in embarrassed submission
Feaurius III
MIA Foreign Minister
Daghdha
Absent Minded
MIA whishes for some sort of note on their proposal before they get next turn. I believe that's because they're ready to go for Construction. Please comment and I will revise as we go along. I think it would be in order to send something or their unease will grow...not good.
1. Who researches construction (them, us or a third party)?
2. Should trading overseas be restricted (MIA wants that)?
3. Do we want any agreement on how to proceed in MA (MIA wants one of us to go straight to Edu)?
4. Should we renew/continue a peace deal?
1. Who researches construction (them, us or a third party)?
2. Should trading overseas be restricted (MIA wants that)?
3. Do we want any agreement on how to proceed in MA (MIA wants one of us to go straight to Edu)?
4. Should we renew/continue a peace deal?
Tubby Rower
Chronic Slacker
I'd like to tell them that we'll research it. but have no logical reason that they would buy for us to do it.
No peace IMO.
No peace IMO.
To stall them...we should ask them what they want for their free tech. Nothing we offer will be fair and nothing they counter with will be fair. So it's an impasse.
I'd think this should be possible for 6 more turns.
Time to grind the tech pace to a halt for max benefit.
I'd think this should be possible for 6 more turns.
Time to grind the tech pace to a halt for max benefit.
barbslinger
Gun blast'n shot drinker
Now this idea I am an advocate of. Keeping our GS the top unit would give max benefit. If the Repub for all techs falls through and then trying to deal Repub for parity fails then we should just research the lower tier ourselves. Most techs would be 4 turners and we would be the only one in Repub for a while. Our GS could wreak havoc world wide while that is going on.Whomp said:
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
I'm not a regular here, so mind my possible obtuseness, but have we been considering researching Republic slower? And how about agreeing to research a tech, but not actually researching it right now?
Those (among others which I have not though of) could be possible stallers that might help us deal with the actual situation at a "better" pace for our GS to come forth, strong.
Those (among others which I have not though of) could be possible stallers that might help us deal with the actual situation at a "better" pace for our GS to come forth, strong.
gmaharriet
Ancient Crone
Regarding the agreement not to trade techs overseas, is there any way we could say we would trade no more techs with others than they already have? That would seem equitable.
I can see zero benefit to saying we won't trade overseas. We've done that since we started on republic and see what it's got us now. They've been trading away while our hands our tied. Now we have an opportunity to trade and they want an exclusive. I'm against any agreement with MIA that doesn't not include their free tech.
