Diplo for MIA

Crakie · Dec 6, 2005

I agree with Whomp... we are entitled to get all available techs for Republic and it's in MIAs interest as well to meet this requirement.

After the big swap, we go to war as quickly as possible (roads being of crucial importance indeed). If we don't, GS loose their edge and we will have a hard time keeping up with MIA (free tech + SCI/COM trades).

Daghdha · Dec 6, 2005

Cracker said:
After the big swap, we go to war as quickly as possible

I agree, question is who will we fight? Seems like we pretty much agree on how the trade with MIA should be revised, including the screenies. All their techs for republic, and screenies as "compensation" for the slow burn. Then what?
Attacking MIA, upsides:
No need for galleys
Less military needed to protect backdoor
The strongest opponent crippled/whiped out
Attacking MIA, downsides:
Our partnership is ditched (good/bad?)
TNT/Nuts can gain back on our continent if they make peace
We have agreement that prevents an unexpected attack
Hoppies are hard nuts to crack
:confused:

Fill in on this...

Tubby Rower · Dec 6, 2005

I talked to fe earlier tonight and expressed some of our concerns

The bit about Whomp saying that we will NOT trade Republic is false. Whomp confirmed that he told him that we were shopping it around. I'm not trying to destroy this alliance... Actually I want it to remain. But if they think that they can push me around..... well they'll have to do it with Hopilites

Spoiler me stirring things up :

Daghdha · Dec 7, 2005

What I don't see in any of the arguments is the benefit of trading overseas...at all. TNT played it all in our hands by turning their cont. into an illiterate bloodbath, Both them and Nuts are tied to building units rather than research and the sci they do is done by both. Meanwhile the greens can swap techs at the double research speed and gently leave them behind. I saw this as the big benefit from our alliance when we first discussed it, but now that is all gone and we're both giving TNT/Nuts help so not to fall too much behind. Our agri. trait means bigger pop i.e. faster research, they compensate that with the free tech so in the end that's about equal. If we both stop all overseas tech trading and just swap/pay/deal then it doesn't matter how obvious our alliance is. TNT/Nuts can only watch us fly away anyway. Nor does it matter if one civ overseas are steam rolled because they can't make it on their own. When we've reached Chiv/muskets we make a joint mission to cripple or defeat TNT/Nuts, then we have our "mano a mano"-scenario. Therefore my suggestion on the deal is:
1. To he77 with covering our alliance
2. Stop trading overseas
3. Maximize the speed of mutual research agenda
4. When the greens reach chiv/powder launch the big bang.

Edit: Chat with fe, me being the good cop. Having said that, I really stand behind what I'm saying about getting this together and I don't wanna cause any issues within team, so Tubby, it's not an effort to work against you or anyone that wants to put pressure on MIA.

Spoiler :

Crakie · Dec 7, 2005

Daghdha said:
I agree, question is who will we fight?

I was thinking to attack MIA (as Whomp suggested), eliminating our most dangerous rival... I am confident we will keep our advantage on the other continent. In fact, we should move on immediately to a core on the other continent.

With this in mind, I absolutely agree it's not in our interest to allow techs to be traded with the other continent.

Whomp · Dec 9, 2005

Well it seems we get tech parity. They would like our screens as well as our capital. I don't see much of an issue here since we're back on settler pump. Anyone know they traded for currency? I must not have read that. Well we're getting to that point where our GS is becoming less valuable if the tech pace continues to crank along. AK suggested we go down the lower half of the tree in the MA which makes sense.

Spoiler :

barbslinger · Dec 10, 2005

It seems to me that everyone is making deals all over the place. Our GS maintain while in AA. Lets find the MIA iron, position to pillage, and take the whole frik--ng continent. No Repub for anyone and after our core assimilation we should cruise to a win. In fact Nuts and TNT should knock thier King over much like a chess win.

Bede · Dec 10, 2005

I think we just got hosed....that deal with TNT stinks, especially since they don't seem very willing to share the goodies.

Why do I get the feeling that all this good fellowship is smoke in our eyes?

And hurt feelings over an embassy? Buck up big guy, this ain't the minor leagues.

I'm am getting a little antsy right now.

barbslinger · Dec 10, 2005

I'm with you on that count Bede. Antsy is an appropriate word to describe my feelings on this too. I still hold faith that our delegation can foment a positive spin for our group. It looks like we hold Repub and research our way through. I'm thinking it could work. The other teams are 20+ turns from repub and we can catch up on our own.

Tubby Rower · Dec 10, 2005

So that's three (including me) that thinks that we should tell them all to shove it and go at this on our own. I personally think that we should go in with D'nut or TNT so that we don't get dogpiled by 3 teams.

I don't care what fe is promising or how many pictures of shriners that they insert into diplomatic communique, I don't trust him in this game. I think that we need to convert Dunderhead to a military pump and start cranking settlers (Simpleton) and GS (everywhere else except Polecat). Then run down our road and start taking some cities. Razing their luxury cities shouldn't be a problem. Getting math from TNT for writing is still on the table AFAIK for some rock throwers.

Whomp · Dec 10, 2005

Writing was just traded underneath us by MIA. Let's get all the techs for republic first and call it a day.

Tubby Rower · Dec 10, 2005

NO MORE DEALS with MIA. My bum hole is sore from how badly we got screwed in this deal. :shakehead

IMO lets trade with the other continent ONLY. If MIA has been trading their techs around then we can get those same technologies from the other continent. They'll be at war for a while and we can trade it to both of them for all of the techs.

After this worker I'm putting Dunderhead on military duty.

Whomp · Dec 10, 2005

Let's get all their techs first. Then we can run with a poly/construction deal with Donut.

I have pm'd Fe to send maths, lit and and map making this turn and currency next. HBR is less important. I don't like that they've been less than upfront on the latest trade to TNT. This was more underhanded than any embassy. If we send a picture let's do it now before our military ramps up.
I think it's time for a team huddle. War seems inevitable after republic finishes and we may want to hit them when they're in anarchy. I'd like Bede, Slinger, Bugs, Graham and Goz to step up now. Chamnix is a top notch player so it's time to break out the "wood" too.

Bede · Dec 10, 2005

It is definitely time to rattle the sabers, we have a commitment to these guys but once we have fulfilled our side of the bargain it is full speed ahead. And if we send them an capitol pic make it from the same turn as the embassies were opened. (They will get what we get so it is only fair).

I have no looked a tthe map for a while but is it possible to put a force on or near their borders without tipping our hand? Boats offshore, maybe, or a wanderign warrior as a vanguard for the Gallics so we can guide around their line of sight?

IroquoisPlisken · Dec 10, 2005

WAR!!

I also haven't looked at the map in a while, but that Dyes city may make a good place to start the attack from. We've got to watch to the sides of that city, too, though. It's mostly jungle, but they could slip a large force through if we're not careful.

Kickbooti · Dec 10, 2005

Wow. I've been gone three weeks of the last five and now that Christmas is here it is an occupational busy season - so I haven't kept up as closely as in the past.

What a difference a month makes.

Is there a preferred parnter on the other continent? If I've scanned things right, I think that the Nuts would be our best choice...

Do we have to give ten turn notice of hostilities to MIA? How long does that requirement last?

I say we stick to our word, and then no holds barred.

Whomp · Dec 10, 2005

We will abide by all agreements which end at giving republic. We have no obligations after that. My thoughts if the great warriors of the team agree catching them in anarchy could be the time to strike while we stall on an agreement to trade construction for poly. The good news is Donut is researching poly too so we can start buidling an alliance with them. They've already asked about long term peace and don't seem to be so fond of MIA.

This is a time to be as sweet as can be. No anger in conversations whatsoever, please. Delay, delay, delay on all diplo when discussing an agreement beyond republic. Get what we want and strike.
"Hold your friends close and your enemies closer".

Pentium · Dec 10, 2005

Whomp said:
catching them in anarchy could be the time to strike

You're right, that's a good use of Rel trait

I don't know how much help can we expect from D'nuts and how much do we even want. I wouldn't be happy if I saw a big SoD of MW's on our continent.

Bede · Dec 11, 2005

Does anybody have access to battle reporting from the nutter/tny imbroglio?

It would be useful to know just how much of a problem they might become when the swords come out.

I think the best thing to do is just let the MIA relationship cool naturally. Don't give them the back of the hand but don't be overly effusive either.

I suppose it is legal to open any past saves in order to get a look at the map. We are going to need lookouts in the border areas to keep us apprised of any MIA movements.

Wasn't there a provisionin one of the early agreements with MIA that there be a ten turn "grace period" after the Republic deal is done?

Admiral Kutzov · Dec 11, 2005

Sound boots and saddles and don't forget the cats.....

Diplo for MIA

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Keep Calm and Carry On

Gun blast'n shot drinker

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