Diplo for MIA

[Tubby Rower]

I think that we should hold off on any firm commitments, since we are still maybe looking at hitting them in <= 25 turns. If they don't give us all of their techs then we are free to hit them at our leisure without breaking the treaty. If they do, then we need them to be steered toward Education (good job on that Dags). A barracks in the for front might be a good idea in order to get the GS down there and then upgrade them for free to maces. (GS cost just as much as a MDI but the movement gets turned into an extra attack point.) But that's for another thread

 

[Daghdha]

Yeah, the tricky part is if they, to our surprise, accepts to chip in Poly in the rep. deal. I'm assuming they won't but who can tell for sure .
The free tech is also a crucial thing. If Mono then everything is cool, but how do we convince them to sell Feud. or Eng. instantly when they are so afraid Nuts will get it with GLib? I agree that the fewer the comittments, the better, but it is a thin line between being elusive and being exposed. If we're too slick they will get suspicious, if we're too specific we might end up in deals that does no good. Ideally we make specific commitments about issues that will not be relevant, but I need help here. Please point out what needs to be re-written and I (or anyone) can have a go.

 

[Daghdha]

If no more comments are posted I will send the reply to MIA tomorrow.

 

[Whomp]

I would put the ball back in their court regarding construction. It was Fe's idea and let them interpret it. If we did send a proposal I think the best we'd consider is paying for half the cost or something.

 

[Daghdha]

OK, I edited the reply according to Whomp's post. The mail sent to MIA is in the spoiler.

Spoiler :

Hi there fellow Greenies, too bad fe is off-line but we believe things can be worked out pretty well anyway.

The deal for republic means that MIA sends the techs they have gathered during the time KISS has done research on Republic. Technically we could carry it out so that MIA sends half the bunch on the same turn that KISS discovers Rep., after KISS getting them, we send Rep. and next turn recieve the remaining techs from you guys.

About Construction our proposal is in line with what fe himself suggested in an official mail:

A possible solution is that one team research Construction, while the other team pay an equitable rate to the one who is set on maximum science rate.

We're not sure on how this was ment to work, but one way it could work is that you do the research and we pay for it. If we agree on that, then next step is to agree on a resonable sum. Feel free to make an offer or suggest some other solution.

On trading we feel that now that we finally have the possibility to trade, we do not want our hands tied to our back. It may be that no beneficial trades are possible right now, but when there are we want to be able to consider, and possibly execute, them. We could agree on informing each other on what deals are under consideration. You would of course be free to trade construction if you'd which.

About going for Education we could await the outcome of mother RNG and discuss from there. Fe's suggested MIA should go towards Education because you will get there faster and that the (possible) Great Lib. build warrants speed. We are very intersted in going for feudalism/engineering since we're planning on a "visit" overseas before out GS's are out-dated. But, as said before, we can wait a while with this one.

On swapping techs upon the discovery of Education we're fine with your take on it.

Finally, we ask you to consider in what way MIA could aid in a mission overseas. If you are right about Doughnuts, they would be our first target.

All the Best
Team K.I.S.S.

 

[barbslinger]

I really like the wording of Dadhgha's proposal. this seems fair. Once into Repub we will be going after them but the words could give them comfort until after the dastardly deeds are done.

 

[Crakie]

Yes, Dagh, good work! I don't like that last sentence about the Nuts being the first target though.

Finally, we ask you to consider in what way MIA could aid in a mission overseas

Would have been enough IMHO.

 

[Daghdha]

@Slinger
Thanks
@Cracker
Thanks, and I'm inclined to agree with you. The way it's ment to work is that if MIA and Nuts are not friendly but indeed as suspicious/afraid as they "pretend", then MIA will welcome an attack on Nuts. OTOH, if they have a hidden alliance, they might tell Nuts we're coming. Either way it is good for us. The phrasing was maybe too explicit tough...

 

[Daghdha]

Seems like MIA is out for an extension of the peace treaty. Since Rep soon is in I suggest we stall any specifics on that a few turns. We could discuss it by getting tangled up in details as long as we don't promise them anything.

 

[Whomp]

Are we ready? That's the bigger question. Let's not forget that they will be able to spawn hops like bunnies as Graham has said. We will need the ultimate in surprise right at their front door IMO.

 

[Daghdha]

This Idiot has no clue really. I rely on Slingers wish that we should hit sooner than later. I haven't seen Bugsy or any other mil. expert disputing that idea.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

Indeed we need to surprise them, but as long as they are ignorant of our forthcoming, they're sitting ducks and can't have zillions of hoplites around. The ASAP part comes from the ignorance, which won't last years.

 

[Crakie]

I think we can afford to wait a little longer, using chops to speed up a few GS builds. One thing we will need to take into account is the rate at which we can produce GS in our GA. We would need the infrastructure (mines, in particular) to allow for 2 or 3 turn GS per city. Missing that critical shield or two makes a full turn difference! At the very least we need to see how republic pans out corruptionwise.

Hoppies are though, true, but how much offensive power will MIA have? We might be able to completely cripple their economy even if we cannot take core cities right away. In that respect, them being in republic would be nice too.

This being said, I am inclined to defer to a consensus of our designated warmongers. I never played with them, but if Whomp says they're good, they're good

 

[Daghdha]

AIM with Chamnix and he asked if it would be ok for us if they traded lit+poly for construction from TNT. I said, personally, I have no issues with that, but it hasn't been discussed within team. Told him to write something up on it and send to us. He said the other things in the x-mas treaty looked allright and that we should table the q about research in MA for now. He started with thoughts on the peace-treaty but I think I dodged that one nicely so nothing was really said besides both teams will benefit from continued peace, hehe.

 

[Pentium]

They want to sell Literature to TNT? Hm... they're really going to build the GL.

 

[Tubby Rower]

Here is a new proposed treaty from MIA... My recommendation is that we do NOT sign this. We'll have Republic in 2 turns. So I think that after Republic comes in tell them that we need the techs that are promised to us by our last agreement and that we are upset with them for trading profusely with the other continent and would like to not be bound by eternal peace. My comments are in bold below

1. As soon as Republic is completed KISS provides Republic to MIA for HBR, Poly, Currency, MM, & Lit. Already in previous agreement

2. As soon as MIA has obtained Construction, they will provide it to KISS. If MIA spends any money researching Construction or trading for it, KISS will reimburse to MIA 50% of the money spent We could trade for it too , but no one currently has it.

3. MIA and KISS will stay at peace for the foreseeable future. Neither side may break the peace without providing at least 20 turns notice to the other. Doesn't meet our needs, and Chamnix is way out-expanding us (they are gaining 8-9 points per turn compared to 5-7 for us)

 

[scoutsout]

So now they want twenty (20) turns' notice before the onset of hostilities? I mean... I've seen continents taken in less time... shoot, WE might take THIS continent in less time. But I do like one thing I see here; they're starting to get fidgety. My guess is they're trying to do one of 3 things:

1. Buy time for a military buildup of their own
2. Trying to avoid getting caught in a farmer's gambit
3. Trying to snag the Statue of Zeus (see #1).

 

[Tubby Rower]

SoZ was altered for this game... not sure how, butI believe that it was since everyone wasn't going to have access to ivory. If you look at their cities that can be seen, they have:

1 pop 4 (Athens -> producing settlers)
1 pop 3 (--> Look Here <-- which has no rax)
5 pop 1 cities
and Virtuoso which we can't see the pop but can see that it has no rax.

My vote in scoutsout's list is #2.

 

[Whomp]

Here's the interpretation of the peace deal from the admins. If MIA follows through on their end of the bargain and sends all the techs, including poly, we will have some issues attacking soon.

If that's the case we need to come up with a new plan. I would say no deals are made unless it includes their free tech in the new age. Then the question is do we attack TNT instead?

Number seven states that M.I.A. and K.I.S.S. are at peace indefinately. If needed, either team can cancel this peace ten turns after the discovery of the republic. However, they must give a ten turn warning before doing so. So if the republic is discovered on turn 85:
*M.I.A.'s at peace with K.I.S.S. until turn 85.
*M.I.A. cannot announce a cancellation of the peace until turn 95.
*M.I.A. must wait ten turns after they announce a cancellation of the peace.
Right. The earliest peace can be 'officially' cancelled will be 20 turns after the discovery of the Republic. Before war is declared, there must be a notice 10 turns beforehand. Therefore, it's basically what RM said

 

[Tubby Rower]

in our gmail inbox concerning the new age barb uprisings

Greetings, neighbors!

I write this in hopes of starting a dialogue concerning KISSMIA's advancement into a new Age. Though it will be an exciting time for all of us, as Defense Minister I am troubled by the prospect of a Barbarian Uprising. Working together, we will be able to quash any signs of rebellion quickly.

I have put together a map (which I am not permitted to share, unfortunately) outlining the areas that are currently not being viewed by KISS or MIA towns. These areas must be patrolled by units prior to advancing. I am still in the process of working out how many units we will be able to devote to Operation Xray Vision.

I think it will be best if we each agree to police certain areas of the fog, making sure there are no existing camps, and then remaining vigilant in those districts until after the switch to the New Age.

Is there a preferred Idiot to address these concerns?

Your Friend and Neighbor,
Peter Grimes