Diplomacy AI Development

Last game on King/Arabia (Tradition/Statecraft/Industry/Order) lost due to DV from America (Authority/Statecraft/Imperialism/Autocracy). I had a solid lead in Science and going for a SV in 20 turns but America managed to pass Autocracy on UN and win on first attempt for global hegemony with even France and India giving the votes !

Through all the game America was the leader and still I had the 'your behaviour anger them' debuff since medieval. All went guarded on Arabia with low trades value, no open borders, no embassy even if Germany and India went Order as well. America managed to vassalize Netherland, Assyria (then obliterated), Maya. France was down to 3 cities.

I did even donate military tech to the lesser AIs to give them something to contrast America and still the diplomacy favor was negligible.

It seems VP in this patch is only warmongering for me without deploying cheese strategies.

Can we have the same harsh debuffs on runaway AI and leader ? Or just point me where to edit. It's kinda repetitive if I had to play Authority/Statecraft (or Fealty)/Imperialism/Autocracy every game to contrast all the AIs. I will not repeat the absurdity about DPacts already stated everywhere.

Conquered a single city that Germany forwarded settling on me and the warmonger debuff (-81 to -65) stuck for the whole game since Industrial era.

As gameplay mods was using 3/4 UC and More Wonders but both do not mess with diplomacy.

If i'm playing peaceful I want to keep friendly with AIs and use trade routes/DPacts to keep the warmongers in check.

Pile up some heavy diplomacy debuff on AIs as well or jsut get rid on them for the player as well.

In my games they are just one sided.
 
I personally felt the AI was quite friendly and the warmongering penalties were very justified in the last 2 games I played as America on Prince(Domination) and Warlord(DV)
 
AIs are really friendly when you are destroying the world with steel and fire especially after you vassalized them. I'm focusing on peaceful play not domination type game that is really easy to pull a win even on higher difficulty,

I got an heavy DIPLOMACY penalty only to defend myself and conquering a city that was put 8 hex from my capital right in my face to steal a luxury (whales). America vassalized 3 AIs and destroyed one and they gave the congress votes to him get congress, pass world ideology and global hegemony.

Game before went Assyria and vassalized all but two. Guess what: I won a DiploV easily with all due votes from vassals long before completing the Domination.
 
Recursive, any chance of having a separate modifier for when you (not) grant them help when they ask for a luxury? I think it should be separate, because I'll be willing to give them a copy of cocoa, but not go to declare war on somebody, but currently those two are lumped in the same category, as far as i can tell.
 
General_Drax said:
Last game on King/Arabia (Tradition/Statecraft/Industry/Order) lost due to DV from America (Authority/Statecraft/Imperialism/Autocracy). I had a solid lead in Science and going for a SV in 20 turns but America managed to pass Autocracy on UN and win on first attempt for global hegemony with even France and India giving the votes !

Through all the game America was the leader and still I had the 'your behaviour anger them' debuff since medieval. All went guarded on Arabia with low trades value, no open borders, no embassy even if Germany and India went Order as well. America managed to vassalize Netherland, Assyria (then obliterated), Maya. France was down to 3 cities.

I did even donate military tech to the lesser AIs to give them something to contrast America and still the diplomacy favor was negligible.

It seems VP in this patch is only warmongering for me without deploying cheese strategies.

Can we have the same harsh debuffs on runaway AI and leader ? Or just point me where to edit. It's kinda repetitive if I had to play Authority/Statecraft (or Fealty)/Imperialism/Autocracy every game to contrast all the AIs. I will not repeat the absurdity about DPacts already stated everywhere.

Conquered a single city that Germany forwarded settling on me and the warmonger debuff (-81 to -65) stuck for the whole game since Industrial era.

As gameplay mods was using 3/4 UC and More Wonders but both do not mess with diplomacy.

If i'm playing peaceful I want to keep friendly with AIs and use trade routes/DPacts to keep the warmongers in check.

Pile up some heavy diplomacy debuff on AIs as well or jsut get rid on them for the player as well.

In my games they are just one sided.
Click to expand...

I discovered a bug with the "Your behavior angers them" modifier which caused it to persist for a long time, fixed it for next version.

LifeOfBrian said:
Recursive, any chance of having a separate modifier for when you (not) grant them help when they ask for a luxury? I think it should be separate, because I'll be willing to give them a copy of cocoa, but not go to declare war on somebody, but currently those two are lumped in the same category, as far as i can tell.
Click to expand...

They both apply a penalty to "recent assistance". It's kind of a catchall category for a variety of diplomatic stuff. Prevents too many stacking penalties.
 
My DV game was extremely peaceful and i only conquered like cities thoughout the game with a very major war liberating half the continent from denmark. My neighbour was friendly with me throughout. Only me tech rival morocco had problems with me but then i got him sanctioned killing his economy. He was still a military threat but I pulled an easy DV so doesnt matter.
 
Got a message from an AI for the first time that I ever recall, to paraphrase..
"I fear and recognize your might, please accept my fidelity"
Hmm.. so I enter the trade screen, sure enough I am able to trade to make the civ a vassal. Very cool. Congrats guys.


Also, does anyone know what happened to the AI being able to ask you to denounce another civ? It used to be in the game, all the way back from vanilla. Not sure if it was removed or if it's bugged.
 
Zanteogo said:
Got a message from an AI for the first time that I ever recall, to paraphrase..
"I fear and recognize your might, please accept my fidelity"
Hmm.. so I enter the trade screen, sure enough I am able to trade to make the civ a vassal. Very cool. Congrats guys.


Also, does anyone know what happened to the AI being able to ask you to denounce another civ? It used to be in the game, all the way back from vanilla. Not sure if it was removed or if it's bugged.
Click to expand...

The code is still there but commented out. Not sure why that was done, possibly because it was seen as unfair.
 
Recursive said:
The code is still there but commented out. Not sure why that was done, possibly because it was seen as unfair.
Click to expand...

I am guessing because the AI can do it, but the player cannot. I assume it's too complex to add the option for humans to do it as well?

I would love more passive aggressive diplomatic options, assuming the AI can be made not to over use them. (like how they all go nuts with denouncements mid game onward)
 
On the topic of what the AI can do, something I notice over the last few years, is something the AI does with each other but doesn't seem to do with the human.

Late game, even with the options added to chill the AI a bit, I find it's near impossible to keep alliances and friendships. The AI will spam you during the first two eras asking for DoF but after that nothing. It's pointless asking to AI for a DoF because in all my years of playing civ I only ever had the AI accept once.

Don't get me wrong, I love that wars, conflict and backstabbing exist in this game. Trying to work though the CTDs in the newest beta with bribed wars turned off to see if it helps.

The thing I notice however, though the AI will get into spats with each other. (either via open war or passive aggressive way) They also seem to hold DoF and defensive packs all the way to the end.

Now, I have played all sorts of ways, from the passive one city to the aggressive warmonger trying to take over the world. Usually I have to accept the fact that half the world will hate me and do everything it can to ruin my civs day, and the other half will be somewhat neutral and will sometimes swing into conflict with me, but once finished go back to neutral.

Vanilla though flawed, I have to give it credit because it did the late game world "factions" well. At some point in vanilla the world would break into 2 or 3 factions that would side with each other and make conflict with the others when possible. This was usually linked with ideologies, though I remember the "factions" forming before they came into play.

I love VP, but have to say it does the early and mid game global diplomacy great but not so well after mid game. This with me playing with options to chill the AI a bit, that do help, but without I would be in a full blown royal rumble game of risk by the time I reach modern, but only for the human. As I said I notice the AI somehow keeps DoF going with other AI. Not sure why this is.
 
@Recursive Just played my first game on new patch. AIs felt a lot more understandable and relatable which was very nice.

However very few wars declared all game. I didn't get attacked once even with a tiny army and I didn't see any major wars going on elsewhere. Ngl I had a great time sim-citying it but probs not how it's meant to be.

Also AIs did quite a bit of trading cities in deals which didn't seem like something they should be doing.
 
Milae said:
@Recursive Just played my first game on new patch. AIs felt a lot more understandable and relatable which was very nice.

However very few wars declared all game. I didn't get attacked once even with a tiny army and I didn't see any major wars going on elsewhere. Ngl I had a great time sim-citying it but probs not how it's meant to be.

Also AIs did quite a bit of trading cities in deals which didn't seem like something they should be doing.
Click to expand...
So someone's still scamming cities from other AIs?
 
If the AI improvements are in the Community Patch (without the Balance mod nor VP) then it seems that constant spam wars are solved. On the other hand, in my first game I went through the entire game without ever being attacked despite being in 1st place score-wise for about 60% of it and with military in the 5-8th place for most of the game. That is honestly what caused me to stop playing CIV5 with BNW since it felt like a step towards SimCiv rather than the competitive game it was under G&K (where the AIs were quite aggressive).

So this might just be a fluke and I'll try again soon and report back. One thing to note is that the AI's 'offers' for joint war are usually ludicrous (as in, they ask for 3 luxuries, open borders, and war again 'x' for 15 turns in exchange for 2 iron or horses lol). If the other AIs are actually accepting offers like these then I would see it as a potential problem. ;)
 
Uncle_Joe said:
If the AI improvements are in the Community Patch (without the Balance mod nor VP) then it seems that constant spam wars are solved. On the other hand, in my first game I went through the entire game without ever being attacked despite being in 1st place score-wise for about 60% of it and with military in the 5-8th place for most of the game. That is honestly what caused me to stop playing CIV5 with BNW since it felt like a step towards SimCiv rather than the competitive game it was under G&K (where the AIs were quite aggressive).

So this might just be a fluke and I'll try again soon and report back. One thing to note is that the AI's 'offers' for joint war are usually ludicrous (as in, they ask for 3 luxuries, open borders, and war again 'x' for 15 turns in exchange for 2 iron or horses lol). If the other AIs are actually accepting offers like these then I would see it as a potential problem. ;)
Click to expand...

What difficulty ? From King and up I'm finding the opposite behaviour. From Medieval and up they do like declaring wars and be bribed a tons to fight. I'm playing warmonger Rome so they can try anything they want (and they did) but I already vassalized all my continent along with 3 AIs. They stand no chance versus the mighty of Rome.

Noticed They are trading city in a strange way: Mongolia sold a city to Greece out of the blue and they had like 5.

Alexander is still pursuing his DiploV and even managed to sanction me through Council. Good one !
 
General_Drax said:
What difficulty ? From King and up I'm finding the opposite behaviour. From Medieval and up they do like declaring wars and be bribed a tons to fight. I'm playing warmonger Rome so they can try anything they want (and they did) but I already vassalized all my continent along with 3 AIs. They stand no chance versus the mighty of Rome.

Noticed They are trading city in a strange way: Mongolia sold a city to Greece out of the blue and they had like 5.

Alexander is still pursuing his DiploV and even managed to sanction me through Council. Good one !
Click to expand...

I'm playing mostly on King, but I upped their 'per age' bonus to 3 (rather than 2). Again, small sample size (1 game lol) and I think it's definitely much better than the constant spam wars for no reason.
 
How do the AIs decide who to trade luxuries to or if they should buy a luxury from another AI? I can't seem to be able to get any early game luxuries from AIs. They may have 4 improved resources but no spare ones to trade. What gives? I tried looking every turn but I still couldn't get a deal. Are the luxuries just instantly traded away because other AIs are faster to ask than the human? since they take their turn first after someone finishes upgrading a resource. When I improve a resource early game I get immediately asked for a deal.
This severely affects gameplay as it makes early expansion very hard and punishing (with the corruption events) for the human player.
 
About city selling: at least you can finally sold them back or liberate to the new acquired vassal. Closing my current game with Rome (only 3 capital left) and I found useful liberate one of their city that they sold to Greece back to Mongols. No need to annex/puppet then sell.

Anyway like many of my recent domination game, DiploV is way faster: due to acquired wonders, votes from vassals and religious authority I'll reach the quorum for global egemony.
 
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