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Diplomacy with the Deutsche Küche

Discussion in 'The Knights’ Brotherhood' started by Lanzelot, May 2, 2011.

  1. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Deity

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    Can anybody summarize here what we agreed with Kuche? They sent 1 gpt what for? Suppose our military will be successful. Who will research astronomy and the rest?
     
  2. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    The 1gpt is for making the incense deal "permanent". (If we just send incense with nothing else attached to it, the deal will expire after 20 turns and cause riots, or they need to increase the lux slider for 2 turns, until the new deal can start :()

    So what we need to do this turn: put incense on the table from our side and click "Accept". Next turn they will then click "Accept" on their side, and the deal starts. Or road on the second incense will finish interturn, before they have accepted on their side, so we will have two resources by that time. Don't worry, if it says Incense (0) at the momet.)

    I agreed that we will trade incense for furs now, so we will no longer have to pay gold for their furs.
    (If you are unsure, let me play the turn. It's important that we start the deal now, because the Küche has already lowered their lux slider!)

    In terms of research: they will do Metallurgy and MT now. MT should be finished in 7 turns. (They Eagles will need 3 turns until MT.) We will trade Metallurgy for Education and will then get MT, probably for some gold. (Still need to figure out, how much they payed to us, how much we paid to them and how we will "even out the balance".

    It depends on the next steps of the Eagles, whether we start research short-term, or whether we will continue to provide gold for the war. After the war, there will be a "grace period" where we still get techs from the Küche (probably in exchange for the towns we captured), during which we can build our own libs & universities. The space race will begin on even terms, i.e. both have the exact same techs.
    The Küche has a small advantage in that they have a few libs already, (though not that many?! I wonder what they have been doing all the time?!), and we have a small advantage in that our science farms will be up and running much earlier. I do think that atm the chances for both are 50-50.
     
  3. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    PS: I have some time now, so I could play one more turn.
     
  4. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Deity

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    Go ahead. I have jetlag, as expected. Position of ships and settler's plan looks very chaotic for me. Could you make it "in shape" and/or give some explanation? E.g. why Glaston size 7? Where next settlers will go? I will correct it when will play, but no it is very disordered.
    I understand how to play, but I do not understand why we give two lux for one and how long Kuche are going to support our potential enemy.
    I think it is time to rise this matter.
    We may start some libs now.
    We also may start (or prepare at least) to LB and MI to Kuche land. [We need agreement for that.]
     
  5. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Deity

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    I am not very agree what you wrote at strategical section in Kuche diplomacy.
    In long run they are our opponents and it is good if they gain some damage from Eagles.
    At the same time we have to improve our infrastructure and settle the rest of the continent.
    We need money for that.
    We still pay for units support.

    It is not efficient to train LBs and keep 1-2 Galleys at risk and without motion.
    If there is agreement about Knigts upgrade we may ship some now. However,
    I don't think that war will be soon. Very probably Eagles will go to Rep. Parts while we still will be at MA era.
    Kuche must cancel Lux deal with Eagles to slow down their research rate.
     
  6. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    especially the lux trade is so obvious, i cannot believe it has not yet happened. won´t "borderline happiness towns" of the Eagles even revolt the turn the deal gets cancelled? and why haven´´t they done that in a long time already?
    t_x
     
  7. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    You are definitely right, but it's not that easy.

    1.
    The Küche hasn't cancelled the lux deal in the past, because they are afraid it will provoke an attack at a time when they are not yet ready. The later the Eagles attack, the better for us. But if we send a significant number of Knights over, they will feel much safer and will be willing to cancel the lux deal earlier.

    2.
    I think, there is a very big danger that the Eagles will simply overrun the Küche. And I don't think we have any chance against a super-power Eagles. (We had a lousy GA, they had the best possible GA. We will never be able to catch up with them.)
    So for now we must help the Küche as good as we can! (And besides: I don't view them as an "opponent", rather as a friend.)
     
  8. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Deity

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    It remind me our story with Anarhos. I don't want repeat the same mode of discussion.
    But please, don't write in German diplo too much. Otherwise it will be too late to change something after your unwise promises.
     
  9. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    i am not saying that the military intervention on the other continent is a bad idea. i honestly have not the slightest desire of another discussion with Lanzelot on tactics and strategy, as we hardly ever share one opinion about that.

    but i want to address again that pattern of diplo conduct: practically everything Ivan now calls the "promises" you made were 0% discussed with your rest team. i mean, when do you get it that everyone hates this? this team already only consists of you, Ivan and a single lurker due to this behaviour. and it goes on and on and on...

    t_x
     
  10. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    You are wrong here. It was an agreement between Ivan and myself that I take care of the diplomacy. And I think I was quite successful: turning a "hopelessly lost" position into a position with quite decent winning chances again.

    Just look, the situation has a lot of potential:
    • we are the first nation to have its entire continent to itself
    • normally, when this happens, the other two nations form an alliance against the super power. But not in this case: we are in an alliance with one of the remaining civ on the other continent! I would never have dreamed this in the beginning.
    • And what is even better: we are in an alliance with the weaker of the other two! So we can concentrate on eliminating the stronger of the two and then we have the weaker one left as our final opponent.
    • The coming war will definitely take place on the other continent. The Eagles cannot afford to ship many troops to our continent, if they don't want to risk serious damage to their core. So the Eagles will concentrate their military mainly against the Küche, doing a lot of damage to them, while we can build up our continent in the meantime...

    My plan for diplomacy in the near future is:
    combine and coordinate all our resources and forces with the Küche as good as possible, to achieve a victory over the Eagles, while at the same time avoiding damage on our own continent, so that after the war we will be in a stronger position than the Küche.
    (We cannot afford "playing tricks", as then it can easily happen that the Küche gets eliminated by the Eagles swiftly and we'll have to deal with a very strong opponent in the endgame. And besides: I hate these tricks and treachery. Why can't you play honest? It is much more fun/satisfying and it is also much more successful, too!)

    All my actions in diplomacy are geared towards this plan, and I will need the freedom as I have enjoyed in the last couple of months. ("Diplomacy by compromise" has led to disaster in the past, and will lead to disaster again...) If you don't like this, Ivan, just say so and I will stop doing this diplomacy. (I will gladly do so as it will save me many hours of work...) But then you will have to come up with a better plan.
     
  11. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    I can do everything in English from now on. So far I haven't promised anything yet. We are free to give them as much gold as we like, and we are free to send as many troops as we like. However, I think it is in our own best interest to help them with all our power in terms of gold as well as troops, because otherwise we may easily lose our "investment" into them (if they lose the war in the end), and then we will have to deal with a nasty monster that can easily out-research us any time...
     
  12. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    But it has two advantages:
    - gives some good chances to finally get some strong elites (LBs as well as muskets). You know how powerful an Army is. The more eLBs, the higher the chances. (Two eHorses are not strong enough.) And 1-2 eMuskets fortified on a mountain give some decent protection to our cavs.
    - once the island is cleared, we can have an important "early warning outpost" there.

    Question is: are these benefits important enough to justify the risk? I
    I think we need to attack in the next 20 turns, before the Eagles can make good use of either mobilization or railways. justanick basically has the same opinion.
    And I think we'll have good chances of success: it looks like the Eagles have invested most of their GA into libs & universities. We still have the biggest army, and the Küche has also started their military build-up as well. If both nations now assign their shields and gold to the military, we have good chances. We need to be quick and "surprising".

    I have already made that request to justanick and said we recommend that asap.
     
  13. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    which roots or leaves did you consume this time, Lanzelot? the "achievements of your diplomacy" that you self-centeredly claim to exist were not in the tiniest way caused by anything you ever did, but developed solely from the decision of the Küche to support the Knights and form an alliance with them. the reasons are actually unknown, and very surely, you do not even have the slightest clue why they did this. and then you allege this was the seed that you planted? come back to earth, really.
    (did i utter already how happy i am about my past decision not to play in a team with you any more?)
    t_x
     
  14. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    You obviously have a very contorted perception of reality.
    Where did I allege this? But it can't be denied that my way of diplomacy turned this small and shaky seed into a tight cooperation and strong alliance. (While your polite way of dealing with people would surely have trampled that seed and turned the Küche's approaches into a firm 3-way alliance against us...)
     
  15. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Then why don't you leave us alone? Or at least limit your contributions to plain facts and stop polluting our threads with personal insults.
     
  16. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Deity

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    I think diplo should serve to our internal affairs but not vise versa. For many reasons we should not help Kuche too much, but must make an impression that we try to. We need money for many things and will give to kuche minimum just to fulfill our agreements. Don't forget, that Eagles may bribe them at any moment, so better if we ow them something, just in case...
     
  17. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    fortunately one only has to scroll for 2 or 3 posts to prove your claims wrong. but really, why am i posting at all? you trolled away already everyone with your oh so successful way.

    then, after making everyone in here mad to an incredible extent and reducing this team to rubble, how in the world do you think you have the right to tell me to leave? (and how does this fit together with that other post just a few days ago? ah right, it does not fit at all, just as well as all the other "arguments")

    therefore, live with it that there is still someone not falling silent when you tell your myths of self-glorification.

    the funny detail i only realize as i write this is, that you were ready to defend Loki et al any time against Larkin and myself, when the *really* posted insults, while i cannot find a single "personal insult" term in my last post which made you so upset obviously. only because i discarded your saviour fairy-tale? interesting, isn´t it: so blind a man to his own weaknesses while he keeps telling us so much about what only he is able to see!

    t_x
     
  18. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    i already tried to say that twice: if you want to stay an ally with the Küche you need to make up your mind. there are 2 team members left, and even though justanick does not seem too suspicious, he starts to realize already that you are not thinking and saying the same. whatever position you want to take, take it TOGETHER.
    t_x
     
  19. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    i just asked what this modifyer was about in the diplo thread. what you do with this information, i do not want to interfere with. but in my eyes, using this modifyer this way, and only one way, is blulhsit in action.

    t_x
     
  20. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Deity

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    will we gift City for Workers transfer or wait when Kuche will gift us?
     

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