Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
I don't mind, CSD has been discussed here too before. 
Diplomacy
- Thread starter Thalassicus
- Start date
Txurce
Deity
I may be missing something obvious, but I am still unable to denounce anyone. I press the button and nothing happens. Is there a different way to do it, and if so, could someone spell it out for me?
jacktannery
Prince
This is due to an incompatibility with Info Addict and TBM since the new patch, I believe. Disable Info Addict and it should work again. I get the same.
Txurce
Deity
Wow. I will try that - thanks a lot.
SlightlyMad
Prince
Damn, if I have to choose between info addict and the ability to denounce, I'll pick info addict without a second though.
Txurce
Deity
It's funny you say that. I assumed I'd have to do without IA, because I'd be losing a tool. But IA's specific rankings are a tool in their own right. I would just want the ripple effects of denouncing. I forgot to disable IA in my current game, but may go the other way next time.
SlightlyMad
Prince
Denouncing doesn't really do much anyways. Generally the game at some point turns from an all-out love fest into every single AI denouncing every single other AI around the renaissance.
Txurce
Deity
Denouncing builds up brownie points with like-minded civs, and can hurt the rep of an enemy, sometimes leading to a dogpile. But I agree that the value fades greatly after the Renaissance!
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
I'm not sure why InfoAddict might run into a problem, I use it and am still able to denounce people. Hmm... 
Edit: I found the problem. InfoAddict includes a button on the diplomacy screen, and since that mod hasn't been updated since the last patch it bugs the diplomacy screen. The reason I didn't encounter the issue is TBC loads after InfoAddict for me, so the updated copies in WWGD were overriding the InfoAddict version.
I've included a fix for this in v7.1 beta (link). If there's still any problems, please point them out.
Edit: I found the problem. InfoAddict includes a button on the diplomacy screen, and since that mod hasn't been updated since the last patch it bugs the diplomacy screen. The reason I didn't encounter the issue is TBC loads after InfoAddict for me, so the updated copies in WWGD were overriding the InfoAddict version.
I've included a fix for this in v7.1 beta (link). If there's still any problems, please point them out.
Txurce
Deity
I'm not sure why InfoAddict might run into a problem, I use it and am still able to denounce people. Hmm...
Edit: I found the problem. InfoAddict includes a button on the diplomacy screen, and since that mod hasn't been updated since the last patch it bugs the diplomacy screen. The reason I didn't encounter the issue is TBC loads after InfoAddict for me, so the updated copies in WWGD were overriding the InfoAddict version.
I'll include a fix for this in TBC.
Yes! Thanks, Thal.
Is there no reward for giving military units to a CS that specifically requests units? I thought there was, if you gave enough units - like 5-10. However, I gifted about 30 units to a CS that asked for them (over the course of 20-40 turns), and I haven't received anything (other than 5 influence for the first couple of units).
If there's no reward, that's fine. Watching my "friend" China slaughter itself against my former units, with no diplomatic repercussions to me, is reward enough. However, if that's the case, it would be nice if the CS wouldn't request the units, implying there's a reward to come.
On a side note, it's nifty that if you march your units to the CS and use the unit's "gift" button (instead of the CS diplomacy screen), the units keeps their promotions. I imagine this would be great in a multiplayer game when playing, say, Arabia, if you wanted to thumb your nose at a human opponent by making sure all of your "anonymous" gifts to a CS are stamped "Desert Power: Made in Arabia (with love)."
If there's no reward, that's fine. Watching my "friend" China slaughter itself against my former units, with no diplomatic repercussions to me, is reward enough. However, if that's the case, it would be nice if the CS wouldn't request the units, implying there's a reward to come.
On a side note, it's nifty that if you march your units to the CS and use the unit's "gift" button (instead of the CS diplomacy screen), the units keeps their promotions. I imagine this would be great in a multiplayer game when playing, say, Arabia, if you wanted to thumb your nose at a human opponent by making sure all of your "anonymous" gifts to a CS are stamped "Desert Power: Made in Arabia (with love)."
Txurce
Deity
It looks like you only get a reward for the first 3, the same as if they hadn't asked.
Questdog
Prince
Is it possible that you only get credit for completing the quest if gifted through the CS menu?
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
I haven't experimented with this, so I don't know either way. In the long run I want to fundamentally redesign this gifting system... I think the whole thing is rather uninteresting.
Ahriman
Tyrant
How so? I think the current method is pretty decent.
I do not thing that diplomatic "units" should be part of TBC. That is a big change from vanilla, and not really a balance issue. Similarly, I don't think an espionage system should be part of TBC.
Having these as separate modmods is fine, but I think the core design should be balanced without them.
Txurce
Deity
I think the short-term plan is to make the units available for those who incorporate CSD, but in a manner in which they can be ignored by those who don't.
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
The goal of TBC is to add more strategic depth to the game, and balance is only the most visible part of this. Making leaders more fun to play provides more interesting decisions, for example, but does not have to involve making them more powerful.
Diplomacy units are a simple and brilliant way to make distance a bigger strategic factor for citystate allies. It also makes diplomatic victories more challenging, both of which fit in the mod's scope.
Txurce
Deity
Balance is part of improving decision-making, but not all of it. Giving more strategic depth to the game is another part of this goal. Diplomacy units are a simple and brilliant way to make distance a more important strategic decision, and also makes diplomatic victories more challenging, both of which fit in the mod's scope.
I agree with the strategic importance it gives to distance. I have a question about the challenge: do most or all of the AI compete for CS allegiances, so that once the UN is built, no one is going to have an easy time winning?
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
AIs build units based on the flavor settings, so an AI with a high diplomacy flavor maxes out its diplomatic units when possible (they're capped to a limited number). The constant influx of influence from CS-happy AIs makes it much harder to get citystates.
The reason I haven't done it yet is we can't disable the infinite-distance gifting method entirely, so I've left it out of the core mod until we have c++ access.
The reason I haven't done it yet is we can't disable the infinite-distance gifting method entirely, so I've left it out of the core mod until we have c++ access.
Ahriman
Tyrant
I do not find this to be an important strategic factor, or to make the game more fun. Distance with city states matters in terms of what you can defend, otherwise I think it's fine that it doesn't matter. Removing direct distance mechanics was IMO a big step forward in Civ5.
I also worry about the AI. I don't want it to be easy for me to stop the AI from getting CS influence, because it doesn't understand how to defend it's diplomats.
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