Diplomacy

[mitsho]

If we are placing ideas and wishes, I would like the following idea: Total Gold Gifts provide a instant amount of influence with city states for a terrible investment-return ratio. But you can also invest gold per turn in a city state for a better ratio which drains your treasury turn by turn...

 

[Tids]

Wondering if the city states influence drop rate increasing the further they are from you capital would be a good idea.
i reckon it would be more likely to have friendly city states closer to your civilization than further away, as relations are harder to maintain.

 

[Thalassicus]

That's basically why I like Gazebo's citystate diplomacy mod. We move agents to citystates to get influence, so geographic position is more strategically important.

 

[Tids]

Ah ok, i may have to try playing with CSD then, although i don't usually go for diplomatic victories (as i hate it when the AI pull a sneaky win on me, along with cultural, as i rarely pay attention to victory progress. Is it possible to add notifications for advances for these victories?)

However the distance factor would only really be taken into consideration when there are barbarians still around or the player is at war. If you're in late game and at peace, the threat to defenceless diplomatic units would be minimal, and distant city states would only be unfavourable due to the distance the unit has to travel (although i guess this could be a major factor)

I will look more into CSD to see if it suits me (and if i have missed something), thanks for the reference

 

[Thalassicus]

I believe in the F4 diplomacy screen, under global politics, it shows how many policies each AI has. I usually use InfoAddict to keep track of AI culture. I've put a notification warning for this on my todo list (I think it should be easy to do).

Diplomatic agents are limited to 3 per player. Since these agents spend most of their time in transit to distant citystates, it slows our influence rate with them.

 

[Tids]

Yeah, i try to use the diplomacy overview to check this whenever i remember, unfortunately usually when i remember one of the AI is very close to completing the required number of policy trees and i have no standing army

I look forward to notifications relating to these being implemented thanks

Might try out diplo mod right now. Is it fully compatible with Balance? (i had a quick look around the forum but i couldnt see if this was stated)

 

[Thalassicus]

I've used it in the past without compatibility troubles, but I haven't updated CSD in a while.

 

[Tids]

Hmmm, at first i thought it was fine, but then i realized that there were no diplomatic units available for build... :/ Buildings were there though and the patronage tree was the CSD one. Guess im going to stay with Balance and InfoAddict. Might re-clear cache etc

 

[Thalassicus]

You could also check the last page or 2 from the CSD thread to see if there's any discussions about compatibility.

 

[albie_123]

No issues here, using latest CSD + TBM.

 

[Gazebo]

I've used it in the past without compatibility troubles, but I haven't updated CSD in a while.

Are you using v24 in TBC? Its the latest and, until the full DLL, final version of CSD. I'm not going to touch it until then.

On a side note, how difficult do you imagine it would be to code a sidebar event alert when another civ uses a diplo unit? Not really in the experimenting mood currently.

G

 

[GoodRevrnd]

Are you using v24 in TBC? Its the latest and, until the full DLL, final version of CSD. I'm not going to touch it until then.

On a side note, how difficult do you imagine it would be to code a sidebar event alert when another civ uses a diplo unit? Not really in the experimenting mood currently.

G

Is it not possible currently in CSD to prevent being gifted Diplomats when city states gift you great people from that Patronage policy?

 

[Thalassicus]

On a side note, how difficult do you imagine it would be to code a sidebar event alert when another civ uses a diplo unit? Not really in the experimenting mood currently.

I do not believe this would be possible with our current tools. There's not really any way to detect when the AI does things with its units.

@GoodRevrnd
The Patronage policy's effect is coded in the game core only Firaxis has access to, and diplomacy units have to be great people, so there's no way to fix that.

 

[GoodRevrnd]

@GoodRevrnd
The Patronage policy's effect is coded in the game core only Firaxis has access to, and diplomacy units have to be great people, so there's no way to fix that.

Weak. I actually stopped using CSD because of this, it just got too annoying.

 

[GoodRevrnd]

Diplomatic victories kind of bother me. In some sense it's more like an economic victory, which I guess is okay but not very interesting. Consider... what is the actual strategy in buying up all the city states you need right before UN and war decing everyone who has a shot at buying them out from under you? Diplomacy just seems like a "whoops my planned fun strategy didn't work out so I'll fallback on Diplomatic" cop out. I know significantly changing a victory condition without C++ is probably impossible, but I'm thinking that Diplomatic votes should be based on [<Total Empire Population> - <Puppet Population> - <Unrest Population>] + [<Influence Modifier> * <City State Population>], where <Influence Modifier> would be based on your relative influence on the city state from the top 3-5 influential civs. You could also just dumb it down and do something like .65 / .25 / .1. This also leaves the problem of should city states really declare war on you if you're well into allied status but not their top ally? Maybe after you cross a certain threshold where you're not their actual ally but highly influential they should be unwilling to go to war with you. It's all a somewhat complex problem that doesn't really have an easy answer with our current tools but I do feel it's somewhat broken.

 

[Zaldron]

Diplomatic victories kind of bother me. In some sense it's more like an economic victory, which I guess is okay but not very interesting. Consider... what is the actual strategy in buying up all the city states you need right before UN and war decing everyone who has a shot at buying them out from under you? Diplomacy just seems like a "whoops my planned fun strategy didn't work out so I'll fallback on Diplomatic" cop out. I know significantly changing a victory condition without C++ is probably impossible, but I'm thinking that Diplomatic votes should be based on [<Total Empire Population> - <Puppet Population> - <Unrest Population>] + [<Influence Modifier> * <City State Population>], where <Influence Modifier> would be based on your relative influence on the city state from the top 3-5 influential civs. You could also just dumb it down and do something like .65 / .25 / .1. This also leaves the problem of should city states really declare war on you if you're well into allied status but not their top ally? Maybe after you cross a certain threshold where you're not their actual ally but highly influential they should be unwilling to go to war with you. It's all a somewhat complex problem that doesn't really have an easy answer with our current tools but I do feel it's somewhat broken.

Since UN is like 2 techs short of a space victory now, I no longer consider this to be a significant issue. It's just a matter of which part of the tech tree you flow down. Additionally if you're beelining UN and you DoW a neighbor you may get beat up before you can win.

 

[Thalassicus]

I do agree the diplomacy victory could be more interesting. I don't remember much about it, but I remember the diplo victory in Alpha Centauri was fun. I think the planetary council as a whole was enjoyable in that game.

As you mentioned, there's not much we can do with victory types with our current modding tools.

 

[Txurce]

Loosely speaking of diplomacy, do liberated AI civs gain any of the benefits of the old Liberation boost? In my last game I liberated a city, and it took a while for it to spawn any units (which were outdated).

 

[gdwitt]

I posted some problems in your bugs section.
I love your mod, but my main gripe is still with diplomacy.
I read the strategy forums over on civ 5 and avoid all the major pitfalls. However, I still
cannot build friendships on emperor even with gifts and trades almost every turn. In king level, it's a bit easier when I was weak but trailing since everyone kept giving me that "I see a future reliance..." and decs of friendship. Once I start pulling it ahead, all 8 other civs are denouncing and refusing to trade.

I wish I can view a point summary of how all my trades and gifts to other states are panning out. I need to know where it's possible and which of all the "guarded" civs I can attempt to influence.

People mention hovering over the rival's screen in f4 to see this. It doesn't work in your mod.

What is the tuner by the way?

 

[gdwitt]

How can you encourage the AI to spend and release its gold?
Most of the civs by turn 150 have at least 2000 gold.
The only thing they seem capable of using it for is diplomacy gifts.

Emperor 9.14 thal mod plus CDS 24.

I attacked Arabia well past chivalry because I wanted his gold (8400!). He had 10 iron units, but an army of BC spears and archers and perhaps 2 longswords. No upgrading?

Also, when I had taken 2 cities, he refused to give me any gold but wanted all my gold.
When I had take 4 cities, he still insisted on my resources. When I had take 6 cities, he wanted a ceasefire and would give me nothing for it. I attacked the last city and had it down to 1 strength and he still would not budge and would ceasefire only for no gold. It was a tremendous waste. I let ceasefired and waited 10 turns then redeclared war. He still wouldn't off any gold. I took his last city.

Is there a way I can get the AI's gold by taking there cities?