In general I feel we should deal with MIA on a deal-to-deal basis, nothing spanning an entire era or similar deals. No need to nail ourselves down and loose flexibility... we've seen already how fast plans can vanish in thin air to make room for new ones.
I think Crakie is right. They seem to like deal by deal, give that to them. I'm willing to adjust research along amicable lines, but we should probably remain aloof in most respects.
My appraoch with MIA:
Confirm peaceful intention
Trade Writing for a fair price (i.e. don't stick it to them)
Grow, Grow, Grow.
I think that gives us some consensus folks.
1. Peaceful intentions. 1-2 tiles from borders.
2.Bede's Favored nation approach and we will do it deal by deal. Hard core numbers.
One more item...
Pottery for wheel? If they say no then fine so be it.
1-2 tiles from border is what I am worried about. If they have settled on coast north of continent gap we can't get past their coastal village with our curragh and likewise they may have closed that gap on land. If we're not to be within 2 tiles of city border they must have 5 or more tiles between city borders for us to get past. A very loose build can prevent us from a lot of exploring/settling. I say a big NO to their silly restrictions, and of course they should be allowed to get lost in any neutral territory for as much as they like.
I agree with Dagh. No limiting movement with a single unit. If it were me I'd start with the agreements that we are fairly certain we can get... Tech Pots for Wheel. Then once that is done move on to the movement thing. I'd say no tresspassing with more than one unit with in 1 tile of of the opponents border (unless you are within your own borders). With one unit I'd say no tresspassing in the opponents border.
@Dagh ~ I liked the layout of your sig so I stole it
A PM I just sent to Regentman (admin for the MTDG)
Quote:
hear us o great and worth mediators,
we are a simple people, abiding by the rules your braintrust hath gathered (howdy GA). we beseech thee to remember the simple people who can not keep up withthe rulebreakers. we plead for the appropriate sanctions
I know I am a day late and a dollar short, but what am I missing here?
Gussy up the language on the MFN deal structure, kill a few barbs for them, but don't take any movement restrictions. They are hiding something if they are so concerned about a wandering bear skinned warrior. Just wait until the GS start flipping their kilts.....
"Dear Rival"????? Where have all the flowers gone? Do I detect a change in attitude there? Seems like I recall they were celebrating our glorious meeting each other in their last communique.
-MIA gives wheel upon completion and KISS gives pottery now.
- MIA and KISS land units stay at least 1 tile away from each other's borders, during the peace.
- MIA and KISS sea units don't stay on the same tile in each other's territory for 2 consecutive turns, during the peace.
-MIA and KISS will offer each other "Most Favored Nation status". Most Favored Nation simply means that we will offer what we learn at the monopoly beaker cost less the Emperor trade rate discount if, and only if, MIA will reciprocate. Other nations will pay monopoly beaker cost. No shared research, no sweet heart deals, just cold number crunching.
- KISS will get writing while MIA gets Masonry and Myst. As soon as KISS gets Writing, the team with the best research capability starts on Code of Laws, while the other team starts on Philosophy. Code of Laws will be discovered first and given to the other party before Philosophy is discovered, so that Republic comes as a free tech.
- Techs are shared between both teams when Writing and Republic are discovered. We believe this balances out under "Most Favored Nation" status.
- MIA and KISS are at peace. Since both of us can't really know what new developments will be in the future, our peace deal is basically unlimited, and can only be terminated at least ten turns beforehand. This shall not be done, before at least 10 turns have passed after the discovery of republic.
In a nice fashion I would like to respond to Fe that we are extremely disappointed in the knowledge level of their envoy. If they want to discuss hard numbers then they should be prepared to bring someone with knowledge of the game to the table. A better agreement is when both sides agree before showing (voting etc) it to their teams. Then actions can be taken. My .02.
I am prepared to tell him I am resigning for his insulting comments and forcing me to deal with his lackeys in the first place. He and his bureaucrats have set the bar very low when dealing with us. We don't see our relationship as priority and I find it offensive.
Fe333au said:
Major Idiot Whomp
I am PMing you to inform you that I have e-mailed KISS the letter that outlines the Proper Channels in order for all future diplomacy to be conducted ...
Emp.Napoleon has informed MIA that you had a meeting and then went on to say that he told you that he was not the player assigned to KISS ... so could not assist in your eagerness to conduct diplomacy ...
You should also know by now that we have a diplomacy system ... it is the best system designed by and for our particular team dynamic ...
I am intrigued that we still have not heard form you regarding the modified agreement and considering that you were extremely eager to discuss tech trading with Emp.Nap ... why have we not been sent anything in writing?
I am the Foreign Minister and Kentharu the KISS ambassador
Your options are PMing us and e-mailing MIA ... for swift action you can e-mail me direct on optusnet dot com dot au ... as I am a very active player ...
how about this here EDIT OF WHOMPs letter.
i think it clears all the fog and will make this dancing bear either toe the line or go over it.
We were and still are, extremely disappointed in the knowledge level of your envoy - kentharu.
If you wish to discuss hard numbers then you should be prepared to bring someone with knowledge of the game to the table.
Dealings must be done with people of authority. If said player CANNOT make an executive decision, he should stay home.
It is far better when both sides agree on a certain deal before showing (voting etc) it to their teams. Then actions can be taken to the team for a vote.
We are outraged by both your insulting comments and forcing me to deal with your lackeys in the first place. You and your bureaucrats have set the bar very low when dealing with us. We don't see our relationship as priority and find it offensive.
When you have decided you are willing to talk BUSINESS, feel free to appoint a capable member as ambassador.
This ofcourse, us being Honourable, DOES NOT change any of our current deals.
Tell him that all of our diplomats resigned and they will be forced to talk to the wind. Peace will still be between our two nations but no negotiations will proceed until competent diplomats are assigned on MIA's side
Also tell them that we consider unclaimed territory just that and that we can and will explore unclaimed territory.
Before my head explodes someone please change this so I send the right message.
Spoiler:
Foreign Minister Fearius III,
To be blunt, we don't see our relationship as priority and find it quite offensive, in fact, that we have not had the opportunity to deal with a decision maker directly. We were and still are, extremely disappointed in the knowledge level of your envoy - Kentharu. Emp. Napoleon even said to us he is teaching Kentharu the ropes. Both nice young men but I am personally outraged by both your insulting comments and your government forcing me to deal with your lackeys in the first place. You and your bureaucrats have not given our people a high degree of confidence with your treatment and heavy handed tone when you have not even attempted to speak with us.
If you wish to discuss hard numbers then you should be prepared to bring someone with knowledge of the game to the table.
Dealings must be done with people of authority. If said player cannot make an executive decision, he should stay home.
It is far better when both sides agree on a certain deal before showing (voting etc) it to their teams. Then actions can be taken to the team for a vote.
When you have decided you are willing to talk business, feel free to appoint a capable member as ambassador.
This of course, us being Honourable, does not change any of our current deals. Here is what we are willing to offer at this point.
Spoiler:
-MIA gives wheel upon completion and KISS gives pottery now.
- MIA and KISS land units stay outside of each other's actual borders, during the peace.
- MIA and KISS sea units don't stay on the same tile in each other's territory for 2 consecutive turns, during the peace.
-MIA and KISS will offer each other "Most Favored Nation status". Most Favored Nation simply means that we will offer what we learn at the monopoly beaker cost less the Emperor trade rate discount if, and only if, MIA will reciprocate. Other nations will pay monopoly beaker cost. No shared research, no sweet heart deals, just cold number crunching.
- KISS will get writing while MIA gets Masonry and Myst. As soon as KISS gets Writing, the team with the best research capability starts on Code of Laws, while the other team starts on Philosophy. Code of Laws will be discovered first and given to the other party before Philosophy is discovered, so that Republic comes as a free tech.
- Techs are shared between both teams when Writing and Republic are discovered. We believe this balances out under "Most Favored Nation" status.
- MIA and KISS are at peace. Since both of us can't really know what new developments will be in the future, our peace deal is basically unlimited, and can only be terminated at least ten turns beforehand. This shall not be done, before at least 10 turns have passed after the discovery of republic.
Apart from this, it looks good. We can agree not to come with more than 1 unit NEXT TO border. The 1 tile away thing, I don't like at all. Neutral is neutral.
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