Dirty pirate scum: 0, Righteous pirate fighters: 1

Spoiler :
YouTubeMoney_1024x1024.jpg

:)

Funny that those firms and other money-grabbing aparati stopped trying to take music videos off youtube. I suppose it is completely different to dl a song to just going to its youtube page and listening to it (not sure if dling the youtube video is 'illegal' either, since i always have internet connection so have no use for that).
 
He could have at least tried to find a more matching beard :/ That thing is notably reddish in constrast to his hair.

Although i suppose it could be a meta-joke, and the hair is the fake part.
 
No TF, many people need some amount of money as an incentive to work hard enough to produce high quality content.
I feel I can survive without whatever "content" they're providing. If somebody has something worthwhile in them, money is the means, not the end.
 
Maybe "incentive" is not a good term for the cases of people who try to create something in their view important and 'good'. I would say that many good artists just want some (reasonable) amount of money so as to be able to survive without needing to do many other types of work which would potentially harm their prospect of developing their art.

of course this is not the usual case with art nowdays. Most popular (pseudo-)artists get millions for pretty much not that significant work (eg pop musicians) and the companies up to now devoured a hundred times more cash for pretty much doing nothing other than allocating funds to factories that create material vessels for the music or other such art.
 
I just don't take seriously the claim that pirating is hurting the content creators. We literally know that those who pirate the most, say, music, are also the same ones who spend the most. This is a statistical fact. The very folks who are apparently causing the worst problem are also the very folks who are actually spending the money. So shoot the pirates as Cakes wants, and suddenly you're left with people who just don't actually care enough to buy or pirate much at all.

In addition to the many reasons profitability in the industry has declined, in most of these markets, there's just a lot more supply. There's more content creators, more who are willing to take recognition and undercut those seeking compensation, and the barriers to entry are a lot lower.
 
So then as long as the Colombian drug cartels donate millions to the Medellin police widows fund, we're golden and they should be left alone?

Spoiler :
If anyone's first reaction to that sentence is "hey, why are you equating piracy with the drug cartels?" then you're a moron. It is doing no such thing. It is simply using another example of an entity providing funds for the very group that it harms as though that in some way makes it all okie dokie.
 
So then as long as the Colombian drug cartels donate millions to the Medellin police widows fund, we're golden and they should be left alone?

Spoiler :
If anyone's first reaction to that sentence is "hey, why are you equating piracy with the drug cartels?" then you're a moron. It is doing no such thing. It is simply using another example of an entity providing funds for the very group that it harms as though that in some way makes it all okie dokie.

What? No one is harmed. Let's say I own not one but for reasons I don't wish to explain two CD copies of Lady Gaga The Fame. Now let's say it's 2009 and I have a gig coming up and I'm like, I need to burn a few tracks from the album onto a couple of CDs, and I don't want to go into my closet and rip the tracks again on my new computer, so I torrent them.

Is anyone harmed?
 
If you can survive without it, don't pirate it. If you aren't willing to pay for it, you shouldn't be willing to steal it either.
You misinterpret me. I'm not arguing that producers of art aren't entitled to pursue compensation for their output, because of course they do. (Music, certainly, I spend a lot more than on than I really should.) I'm saying that in an ideal world, they wouldn't need to, and that the kind of people who can see no motivation to produce art without the promise of exceptional compensation aren't going to be producing anything but soulless dross to begin with. The point is not to advance any particular position in regards to this debate, but observe how narrow the terrain on which we're conducting it is.
 
You misinterpret me. I'm not arguing that producers of art aren't entitled to pursue compensation for their output, because of course they do. (Music, certainly, I spend a lot more than on than I really should.) I'm saying that in an ideal world, they wouldn't need to, and that the kind of people who can see no motivation to produce art without the promise of exceptional compensation aren't going to be producing anything but soulless dross to begin with. The point is not to advance any particular position in regards to this debate, but observe how narrow the terrain on which we're conducting it is.

Yeah. We still don't have a good way to compensate artists and we should really change that for the betterment of all of us.

The alternative is that the current Chris Brown record reigns supreme.
 
Re-institute Patronship of the arts ;)

Worked for Euripides and co.

Well, i suppose the web may help separate those artists who are in it for the ca$h from the ones who are in it for vanity. And the few who actually both think they are producing something important, and potentially get others to agree and enjoy their work. I do hope the web can help more to that direction. :)
 
A bit of euergesis might help, yes. But, making the rich give to the poor? That'd be stetching things a bit.
Please don't interrupt this one. :beer:
;)
What? No one is harmed. Let's say I own not one but for reasons I don't wish to explain two CD copies of Lady Gaga The Fame. Now let's say it's 2009 and I have a gig coming up and I'm like, I need to burn a few tracks from the album onto a couple of CDs, and I don't want to go into my closet and rip the tracks again on my new computer, so I torrent them.

Is anyone harmed?
No. But it's illegal anyway.
 
How come this notion that people's willingness to pursue a career based on their ideas should be protected is rarely expanded beyond the traditional, established, industries?

I mean, loads of people make important intellectual developments without the protection of patents or copyrights, and must continue to earn their living in some other way, because they're not in the field of printing, music, etc.
 
He is compensated if he produces it live. People wanting to get paid several times for doing it only once and using the artifices of unpaid engineers to deliver it? Funny stuff that.

The media we all enjoy and the way we enjoyed it traditionally required money to pull off. Lots and lots of money, and so those that put that money into it (labels, studios, etc.) wanted lots and lots of money back. To make lots and lots of money though, you need royalties, or some way of profiting off every commercial distribution of your song. In the days before the internet, these studios and labels became enormously profitable because the consumer was essentially totally beholden to them. VCRs and CD burners and tape decks started eroding that control, and the internet has now completely blown that control away. Enter abusive legislation like the DMCA and lobbying efforts to expand criminal punishment of copyright infringement.

What the RIAA and other conglomerates are protecting is their (perceived) position as necessary content holders and distributors who we need to fund new artists and distribute them to the masses. To me the debate is: to what extent do we need these huge content holding and distributing entities, and is there a problem with legislation designed to artificially maintain their business models? (I.e. eroding net neutrality, etc.) In other words I don't think it is a fair critique to say an artist cannot or should not profit off of any copies of their work, if they want to. But the extent of limitations on copying, and how the playing field is artificially gamed to stifle innovation and competition--yes, that is a concern.

What? No one is harmed. Let's say I own not one but for reasons I don't wish to explain two CD copies of Lady Gaga The Fame. Now let's say it's 2009 and I have a gig coming up and I'm like, I need to burn a few tracks from the album onto a couple of CDs, and I don't want to go into my closet and rip the tracks again on my new computer, so I torrent them.

Is anyone harmed?

Define "harm?" Is Interscope "harmed" by what their lawyers would construe as infringement? This is taking into consideration that you already own it, since their argument would still be that any copy you make without their authorization (i.e., without paying for it) is infringement. So just your convenience in accessing it has value, value you have not yet "legally" availed yourself of by, say, using a cloud service that pays money to Interscope (Amazon, Google, iTunes) for the right to offer customers the ability to store their music online and access it anywhere, or just buying it when you really need it. Do I agree with this? Taken to the extreme (i.e., saying you cannot even copy your own CD?) of course not. Ridiculous. But if you own it, and you have not digitized it yourself, and you avail yourself of the convenience of getting it anywhere you want by torrenting it (when there are free and legal alternatives?) I don't know about that. I can see both sides of that one.

In essence the industry is (correctly) now offering a "buy it once, play it wherever and whenever" model with things like Google Music and Amazon's cloud locker and so on. The digital copy is something you can do yourself (by ripping it and uploading it to the service, or emailing it to yourself, or putting it on dropbox, or whatever), or you can buy it, but taking a digital copy outside of these two licensed means could be, technically, infringement. Trivial? Yes. Wrong to call stealing? Yes. But technically, harm in the legal sense.
 
I'm saying that in an ideal world, they wouldn't need to, and that the kind of people who can see no motivation to produce art without the promise of exceptional compensation aren't going to be producing anything but soulless dross to begin with.
I'd go even further. Art for the sake of money is not just uninteresting, it is in its sum outright harmful to a society. Because art is not just about satisfying trivial desires like sitting on a comfortable chair or driving a car that won't kill me. Those are obvious and absolute needs. They need no debate to arise, they are not relative to social relations. So it works fine if supply is sort of dictated by what the consumer falls for best.
But art is all that and more. Art is about suggestions to view the world. How do such suggestions benefit me best? If I just get whatever I like to be suggested on whatever whim? If demand dictates supply? Or if the one doing the suggestions actually tries to benefit me by doing art the producer actually believes in?
Art requires the producer to take responsibility and not just rest the responsibility with the consumer and focus on the bucks.
Otherwise we do not have just soulless art but soulless societies.

I am laying it on thick of course, but it is a general phenomena I believe to very much be able to witness.

Now Lord Baal is right that all that doesn't mean producers of art didn't deserve or even need compensation for their product. It just suggest what Hygro said, that art may require a different scheme of compensation than a chair.
 
People in recording studios are paid for their work.

I work in publishing. Authors are paid for their books, editors are paid to edit those books, proofreaders are paid to proofread them, printers are paid to print them, customer service personnel are paid to answer questions about them, maintenance people are paid to keep the printers running, IT people are paid to keep the computers working, I am paid to sell the books to bookstores and libraries, bookshops pay for the right to sell the books, people pay the bookshops for those books. The authors get commissions on all of their books that are sold; those that are not sold in bookstores are returned to the publishers, scrapped, and the author receives no commission for them.

This is an entire industry constructed around one person's creativity; the author. If his books are pirated, he loses his commissions, which means he doesn't earn enough money from producing his work to continue producing it, forcing him into another job, which then causes the publishers to cut costs by releasing staff, leaving less staff available to perform other duties, ad infinitum.

"People currently get paid to distribute books" isn't a good reason that people should continue to get paid to do so.

If we could make an ereader for $20, cut out all the middlemen, lower ebook prices, and keep the creators' compensation equal, people would be better off on average.

This is one thing Amazon and Apple both do very well, they don't fear cannibalizing their existing products/services in order to develop new, better ones.

So then as long as the Colombian drug cartels donate millions to the Medellin police widows fund, we're golden and they should be left alone?

I already made this very point earlier:

[...]the profit from selling slaves would allow me to make all kind of movies, but it's immaterial to whether I should be allowed to sell slaves.

The relevant thing is that the promise of future monetization allowed by IP laws motivates IP to be created which otherwise would not be.

How come this notion that people's willingness to pursue a career based on their ideas should be protected is rarely expanded beyond the traditional, established, industries?

I mean, loads of people make important intellectual developments without the protection of patents or copyrights, and must continue to earn their living in some other way, because they're not in the field of printing, music, etc.

Well, most software developers are firmly opposed to software patents.
 
Not really really back up. Just someone independent of the original ISOHUNT registered a domain name like it, created an interface like it, and... well that's about it. What's actually amusing is that it's kind of a pirate job of a pirate site. It's almost like Chinese ripoffs of Windows!
 
And technology is heading there. I have no problem with that, as long as it ensure the creators continue to profit from their creation. No one hates the publishing industry more than those employed by it. But "I don't want to pay the publishing industry for its products" is not a good reason to pirate them, as it screws over everyone, including yourself. I've already explained why piracy leads to less art being produced. That should be reason enough not to pirate.

But presumably "I don't want to pay the publishing industry for its products" is good enough reason to boycott them, and that screws everybody just as much, except it screws me more than piracy would.
 
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