[GS] Disable GDR

[Pistol90]

Well they used one in they livestream while other units were WW2 era ... and this thing is so powerfull it will enable you to steal late victory more easy than nukes

 

[Archon_Wing]

They're obviously showing it off in the livestream.

Nukes are also irrelevant to most games too. If either makes an impact in the game, something is wrong.

 

[Republic of San Montuoso]

Removing it will be easy, but I think then the future era techs will have to be revised to still be relevant, since my current understanding is they mostly enhance the GDR. Though I don't think we've had an in-depth look at that era yet so I'm likely completely wrong.

I personally am looking forward to it but I can understand why you'd want to remove it. I might like to try a few games without it too.

Future techs will not only be for the GDR, as I understood. Apparently, you can gain one or two Diplomatic Victory points in the trees (but I don't remember if it was culture ou science tree), and they will probably be more things about the way the Scientific Victory work. Well, I hope so...

 

[Tiger Genocide]

They're obviously showing it off in the livestream.

Nukes are also irrelevant to most games too. If either makes an impact in the game, something is wrong.

Most people that are defined by the geek or nerd descriptors (which especially includes video game players) are very pro "sci-fi" or very sci-fi friendly. Some of us, myself included, hate sci fi stuff. Zombies, goofy beam sabers and guns, rocket boots, giant death robots, etc.

Sci-fi as a whole is cheesy and tends to be used in a cheap/lazy manner. Take Batman for example. Have a tough problem to resolve? Ok, lemme make a antidote, device, or a spray can that can make it all go away or capture the bad guy.

There are so many zombie shows and movies that it makes me want to vomit. It's hard enough avoiding conversations with coworkers or friends that are extremely excited to tell you about the a latest episode, do I really have to see it in my favorite historical based game? Zombies can never talk, so it is a half written story by default. Sometimes no story at all.

I also do not want to see a crappy version of Hideo Kojima's Metal Gear be the last weapon my civilization can use to win a game either.

It's just lazy research, writing, etc.

We have hypersonics, AC 10, AC 130 Gunships, Naval based Railguns, fancy missile systems like the Russian S400/S500. None of that cool enough? Battle drones that are quiet and remotely controlled. We already have this stuff. Satellite tungsten rods or re-entry nukes?

I could go on and on, but they had a TON of things they could look at. They could have watched a few episodes of Future Weapons and did better than a cheesy giant robot.

Just because perhaps a slight majority of you guys like this stuff does not mean the rest of us are willing to overlook it just because it comes so late in the game. It does not even fit our human history. In 2019 we can easily see with zero difficulty that giant nuclear robots or Gundam battle mechs will not be part of any countries military whatesoever. Ballistic missile technology pretty much ruined that tired and played out concept from the early 1980s. I kinda give them a pass for it in the previous games, but by now? Come on man! Let it go already.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I'm not a professional, but I suspect it will be an easier feat of engineering to construct a giant death robot than to send a viable human colony to another star. No nation in the world has ever won a "culture" or "religious" victory, and it's debatable what that would even mean in IRL terms, since time would continue to see these change.

Why are those things not an issue for immersion? What self-consistent framework of "immersion" allows for interstellar travel and culture victories, but can't have GDR?

That said I would prefer modern hardware or "better" versions of that. Less done to death and whatnot.

 

[Tiger Genocide]

I'm not a professional, but I suspect it will be an easier feat of engineering to construct a giant death robot than to send a viable human colony to another star. No nation in the world has ever won a "culture" or "religious" victory, and it's debatable what that would even mean in IRL terms, since time would continue to see these change.

Why are those things not an issue for immersion? What self-consistent framework of "immersion" allows for interstellar travel and culture victories, but can't have GDR?

That said I would prefer modern hardware or "better" versions of that. Less done to death and whatnot.

Religious maybe not... but in some regions you can make a very convincing argument for one religion winning. Worldwide though? No but Atheism and Islam seems to have quite a bit of momentum.

Culturally? Not all cultures are equal. Some cultures are flat out stronger than others. Too many to count have died out or are in a museum currently. Some not even that. The loose collection of culture we call Western Civilization (Roman, Greek, and a handful of others) appears to be almost completely defacto, it certainly is dominant. No matter how big or strong Chinese culture is, they are not exactly good at spreading it's concepts or encouraging it's adoption anywhere. They may not be interested for all we know. They certainly have enough of their own to resist a great deal of Western culture.....for now at least.....

The reason why Religion and Culture is not an issue for immersion is because it already exists and there are historical cases of it happening even if it was not 100% adopted in the Earth. A Domination victory means take all capitals, not every city. That does not hurt immersion because if one civ did that today, that civ would be hands down the strongest on Earth without question.

Nobody has ever seen a GDR. They do not exist and are woefully impractical and a tremendous waste of raw materials and engineering effort. I won't even bother to address the absurd jumping over mountains part. It's just way too stupid.

I hope someone makes a mod that turns the GDR into an AC130 Gunship. That thing could level a city by itself. The GDR upgrades could just be adding one of the armaments it currently has. Each GDR upgrade component you research could be to add nukes or the Vulcan or Howitzers, etc. Maybe I could make one. Problem is, I do not know how to make art models, sound effects, and whatnot. I can code though. Would it be inappropriate to call the AC130 Mod by it's street nickname? The A## Clapper 130?

 

[darkace77450]

I

I'm not a professional, but I suspect it will be an easier feat of engineering to construct a giant death robot than to send a viable human colony to another star. No nation in the world has ever won a "culture" or "religious" victory, and it's debatable what that would even mean in IRL terms, since time would continue to see these change.

Why are those things not an issue for immersion? What self-consistent framework of "immersion" allows for interstellar travel and culture victories, but can't have GDR?

That said I would prefer modern hardware or "better" versions of that. Less done to death and whatnot.

Victory conditions in general are mechanics that allow a player to win or lose the game. The specific victory conditions are themselves abstractions that represent mankind's cultural, scientific, religious, and military achievements. A 4x game with a historical flavoring would feel incomplete if it didn't reflect mankind's desire to build, create, discover, and destroy. I can't say the same about giant futuristic robots leveling cities with energy weaponry.

 

[Pietato]

It is awesome. Look forward to crushing Canada's cities with it.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Most people that are defined by the geek or nerd descriptors (which especially includes video game players) are very pro "sci-fi" or very sci-fi friendly. Some of us, myself included, hate sci fi stuff. Zombies, goofy beam sabers and guns, rocket boots, giant death robots, etc.

Sci-fi as a whole is cheesy and tends to be used in a cheap/lazy manner. Take Batman for example. Have a tough problem to resolve? Ok, lemme make a antidote, device, or a spray can that can make it all go away or capture the bad guy.

There are so many zombie shows and movies that it makes me want to vomit. It's hard enough avoiding conversations with coworkers or friends that are extremely excited to tell you about the a latest episode, do I really have to see it in my favorite historical based game? Zombies can never talk, so it is a half written story by default. Sometimes no story at all.

I also do not want to see a crappy version of Hideo Kojima's Metal Gear be the last weapon my civilization can use to win a game either.

It's just lazy research, writing, etc.

We have hypersonics, AC 10, AC 130 Gunships, Naval based Railguns, fancy missile systems like the Russian S400/S500. None of that cool enough? Battle drones that are quiet and remotely controlled. We already have this stuff. Satellite tungsten rods or re-entry nukes?

I could go on and on, but they had a TON of things they could look at. They could have watched a few episodes of Future Weapons and did better than a cheesy giant robot.

Just because perhaps a slight majority of you guys like this stuff does not mean the rest of us are willing to overlook it just because it comes so late in the game. It does not even fit our human history. In 2019 we can easily see with zero difficulty that giant nuclear robots or Gundam battle mechs will not be part of any countries military whatesoever. Ballistic missile technology pretty much ruined that tired and played out concept from the early 1980s. I kinda give them a pass for it in the previous games, but by now? Come on man! Let it go already.

This is all besides the point I'm making though.

If people are playing efficiently, they will never see it come into play.

If people are playing inefficiently, they probably won't see it come into play either.

There are many, many messages on here and reddit where people state they simply never finish games.

I mean, when was the last time you even built a stealth jet bomber? How long does a game last after you reach future tech?

The idea that it's going to ruin anyone's game, is frankly, a figment of people's imaginations because the way I see it people pretty much have to go out of their way for that.

 

[Aristos]

If either makes an impact in the game, something is wrong.

Yes. The game.

Seriously, if any component of the game, or mechanic, or unit, or whatever, does not make an impact in ANY game, at all, then the game is wrong.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Yes. The game.

Seriously, if any component of the game, or mechanic, or unit, or whatever, does not make an impact in ANY game, at all, then the game is wrong.

Maybe.

It's a typical thing in strategy games and video games in general where stuff snowballs and early things are just more important. Typically the highest part of the tech tree is just not as important.

Can't help it, assuming you want to win, and rubber band mechanics are just as bad.

Not every choice can be good.

 

[playshogi]

Yes. The game.

Seriously, if any component of the game, or mechanic, or unit, or whatever, does not make an impact in ANY game, at all, then the game is wrong.

This game has gone overboard on feature bloat. The one positive thing they got rid of in Civ 5, climate change, is now back with a vengeance.

 

[darkace77450]

I mean, when was the last time you even built a stealth bomber?

Civ6 doesn't have stealth bombers, much to my dismay. Civ5's stealth bombers looked so much cooler than Civ6's jet bombers.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Oh right, they're called jet bombers. It's unlocked with stealth techonology.

What a stupid naming mechanism

 

[Lord Lakely]

For example, stopping tech research 60% through to wait for a boost, chopping while building ships in order to rush production of a district, or leaders being angry with me for not spreading my brand new religion which I have had no opportunity to spread outside my capital, are more immersion breaking to me.

Makes sense for a guy with a Zak avatar to bring that up; I've been playing some SMAC lately, and man that AI behaves remarkably like a human player would. Either case, I agree. The irrationale behind certain agenda's (including: Entheusiastic Disciple, Flower of Scotland, Sapa-Inca, etc) breaks the immersion massively.

Eureka's and chopping I don't abuse at all, for the same reasons mentioned in the quote, but you can avoid both by simply *not* doing them. You cannot avoid getting yelled at by Robert when your Mongol neighbour invades you with +9 Heavy Chariots on turn 60 or getting scolded by Billiemina when she spawns on the other side of a huge sized map, with no opportunity of sending her a trade route

Re: GDR's: Don't care for them at all, they're cool I guess. I guess i'm supposed to get excited by them and the Rock Bands, but I find both really silly and they stem from "historical" era's that don't interest me, but whatever, I quit most of my games by the Atomic Era anyway.

 

[Tiger Genocide]

This is all besides the point I'm making though.

If people are playing efficiently, they will never see it come into play.

If people are playing inefficiently, they probably won't see it come into play either.

There are many, many messages on here and reddit where people state they simply never finish games.

I mean, when was the last time you even built a stealth bomber? How long does a game last after you reach future tech?

The idea that it's going to ruin anyone's game, is frankly, a figment of people's imaginations because the way I see it people pretty much have to go out of their way for that.

That may not be true at all. They intentionally stretched out the game and added a new Future Era. They eliminated chop overflow exploit mechanics. You are not going to chop out a ton of heavy cavalry and scrub the entire map clean anymore.

You even have the new mechanic that requires a certain amount of strategic resource so that you can build or upgrade those units!

We are going to be forced to see the endgame or at least be forced to play probably up to 50 more turns more than usual.

What we do not know, is if you can completely ignore diplomacy and wipe the entire map out like Acken did playing CIV5 with China from turn one.

As soon as this game comes out, that is what I will be trying first. I want to see if I can handle pissing off the entire group of AIs and if they can even stop me flat out or bankrupt my war machine. THAT would help your argument if it will be possible to do this because I should be able to win before the Atomic Era at a minimum.

Civ6 doesn't have stealth bombers, much to my dismay. Civ5's stealth bombers looked so much cooler than Civ6's jet bombers.

Agreed. Those strategic bombers are not even stealth at all, yet the tech on the tree says Stealth Technology....

The Jet Fighter is very underwhelming too. I wish something next gen like a F22 was in the game.

 

[Archon_Wing]

That may not be true at all. They intentionally stretched out the game and added a new Future Era. They eliminated chop overflow exploit mechanics. You are not going to chop out a ton of heavy cavalry and scrub the entire map clean anymore.

You even have the new mechanic that requires a certain amount of strategic resource so that you can build or upgrade those units!

We are going to be forced to see the endgame or at least be forced to play probably up to 50 more turns more than usual.

What we do not know, is if you can completely ignore diplomacy and wipe the entire map out like Acken did playing CIV5 with China from turn one.

As soon as this game comes out, that is what I will be trying first. I want to see if I can handle pissing off the entire group of AIs and if they can even stop me flat out or bankrupt my war machine. THAT would help your argument if it will be possible to do this because I should be able to win before the Atomic Era at a minimum.

We're running on speculation here, but I am very doubtful there will be sweeping changes. They also tried to slow down the tech pace in Rise and Fall by nerfing science and rationalism but look at what happened. The game moves faster now. Sure, Magnus will be nerfed but I haven't really heard of any real attempts at balancing production costs better. Have they even thought of stuff like nerfing Sumeria/Nubia? If they can't do even that, I really doubt the difference will be that huge. Because even if you don't abuse overflow and mass knights it's still not too hard to finish the game before the atomic era.

Sure, we won't be able to have those turbo victories, but realistically speaking? Even in more better paced games like Civ 4 and 5, reaching the end of the tech tree meant the end of the effective game. If it were effective to build GDRs, that would be the real shocker.

 

[Socrates99]

I know in Civ V i had to seriously stall my game to even get one let alone use it. Pretty sure it's in the game to please a niche crowd and not worth the worrying some people put into it. My money says most of the Civfanatics bunch could go a hundred games and never see one.

That being said im pretty sure even someone who has never written a mod could easily mod it out just by cranking the resources requirements sky high.

 

[The googles do nothing]

When I was young and playing Civ 2 in my goal was to get to tanks and capture all the cities. I think that's the demographic they are aiming for with the GDR. Playing purely for fun. I didn't do practice my making my play optimal any research on the internet on what the best strategies were.

 

[thecrazyscot]

At least the future era is the perfect spot for an enterprising modder to use Deliverator's excellent BE unit conversions.