[GS] Disable GDR

[Disgustipated]

So who's up on the "math" of Civ6 to say what could stop a GDR? Like say I attack a GDR with a mechanized infantry army or a modern armour army, how much damage would I be able to inflict? For the purposes of the discussion, let's just say the initial version GDR without upgrades.

They hinted it would be more vulnerable to aircraft. A jet bomber has bombard strength of 100, less than a mech infantry army or modern armour army melee strength, but fairly easy to have 4 or 5 of them strike a GDR. I would definitely aim for the promotion against ground units.

Because honestly I don't really want to build one, but I do want to be able to defend against an AI built one. And I do hope they build them. I really only see myself building one for the novelty of it (and most likely there will be an achievement for it).

 

[xjzorbtpwqimay]

So who's up on the "math" of Civ6 to say what could stop a GDR? Like say I attack a GDR with a mechanized infantry army or a modern armour army, how much damage would I be able to inflict? For the purposes of the discussion, let's just say the initial version GDR without upgrades.

Iirc, the damage a unit of strength s1 deals in combat to a unit of strength s2 is:

r * e ^ ((s1 - s2) / 25)

where r is a random value between 24 and 36.

A modern armour army has a base strength of 107, so fighting a GDR with base strength 130 in melee combat, you expect to deal between 9.56 and 14.35 damage while receiving between 60 and 90 damage. Since only the strength difference is relevant, not the absolute magnitudes, it's equivalent to a heavy chariot fighting a slinger in melee (28 strength vs 5 strength, a difference of 23).

 

[Aristos]

I have no problem with a robotic gun rig, we are already working towards that. The problem is the GIANT.

No, the problem is the JUMPING over mountain ranges. It does not get more childish than that. I know, I know, civ was never meant to be really serious ever, but come on... that level of childishness?

 

[Disgustipated]

Well perhaps they have technology that lessens the effect of Earth's gravitational pull. Not that technology like that is feasible in the next 50 years. I think the problem is people trying to make this game into X-com. I really wish they would keep the franchises separate.

 

[Zaarin]

Sci-fi as a whole is cheesy and tends to be used in a cheap/lazy manner.

Read/watch better sci-fi then? I could point out that the overwhelming number of films that Hollywood purports are "historical" are also done in a cheap/lazy manner. Every genre has its fair share of schlock; speculative fiction just seems to get its schlock criticized a lot more than other more established genres do.

Well perhaps they have technology that lessens the effect of Earth's gravitational pull. Not that technology like that is feasible in the next 50 years.

Maybe we'll stumble upon a really nice eezo deposit.

I think the problem is people trying to make this game into X-com. I really wish they would keep the franchises separate.

Cross-franchise references are as old as companies managing more than one franchise--like Mass Effect references in The Sims (or Star Wars references these days). Did you play the Humongous Entertainment games in the 90s? Those were practically advertisements for their other games. I think near-future sci-fi has a legitimate place in Civ. The Geth Colossus, er, GDR is a little beyond near-future, but I can live with it.

 

[Deggial]

On the one hand, I don't want to join the "I hate GDR crowd", because I really don't fit into it.
It's true, I would have prefered multiple different upgrades for existing units - or even completely new "reasonable" ones that have to be built from scratch (for example small & cheap/quick to produce but powerful robotic combat units).
But I am still able to take it from the lighthearted side and embrace the silliness of that thing. And it's animation is awesome!

One thing I don't get, though:
Wasn't the reason for the GDR the ability to "roll up the map quickly" at the end of a DV game?
Well, honestly I don't believe, the GDR is the best solution for this means.
Usually, two enemy cities fall per turn in the endgame already. Will the GDR be able to increase this speed effectively?
How many cities a GDR can attack in one turn? An expensive GDR that has to be hard-built and costs an arm and a leg as upkeep?
Wouldn't it have been better to upgrade the existing units?
- Make the mobile artillery move faster and attack twice/turn?
- Introduce nano-weapons that "reproduce" after a successful kill or city conquer and flood the battlefield with descendants to attack even more enemies? (Read your Lem! )
- Allow the upgraded unit to bypass city"walls", attack the cities' health right away and without the necessity of artillery/bombers?
- Allow futuristic bombers to attack twice and cause AoE damage?

In short: allow our existing unit lines that are already on the field in multiple instances to be faster, have more reach and cause more damage - and therefore be able to conquer more cities in shorter time - rather than a few uber-robots that won't be so much faster due to their inevitable rareness on the battlefield?

No, I do not have anything against the GDR - other than that it takes away the possibility for other interesting futuristic unit upgrades. If we had those and the GDR in addition to them and just "for the lulz", I would have been able to enjoy the mountain-jumping, oversized toy quite a bit more ...

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Well perhaps they have technology that lessens the effect of Earth's gravitational pull. Not that technology like that is feasible in the next 50 years. I think the problem is people trying to make this game into X-com. I really wish they would keep the franchises separate.

Actually, we have technology that lessens the effect of gravity, or at least counteracts it: Powered Flight. I've tried it. Works fine if you don't mind the crowding and the fact that if it stops working for any reason, you die in a crowd and they have to identify you by Dental Records and DNA Fragments.

Reference Future Tech and GDR: Didn't anyone at Firaxis ever even look at Test of Time? That old Civ variant had some real 'future' developments Not related to ridiculous military ironmongery: like undersea cities, anti-missile city defenses (okay, they were forcefields, which is a ways off, but Point Defense Anti-Missile Systems exist NOW), orbiting cities (L5, Here We Come, anyone?)

And from Real Science Fiction and not Science Fantasy or Cartoonery, how about Arcologies, Floating Factories and Automated resource extraction, Nano Fabricators, Non-Electronic Computers (nano-mechanicals), Biological/Genetic Engineering, and on and on

We are approaching what is probably going to be a major Singularity composed of a combination of Humanoid AI, Genetic/Biological Manipulation, and Nano-Fabrication that is going to make all prognostication valueless, but we can still get closer to the Probable than GDRs, or Giant Dancing Ridiculousness.

 

[racha]

Giant Dancing Ridiculousness

Don't be hating on giant dancing robots. In fact, Firaxis should add an extra button so we can have the GDR dance. Given the sheer size and weight of the beast, it'll bring a whole new meaning to the monster mash.

 

[Pistol90]

Lets hope it will be something interesting in future era they add beyond this thing. I would easly accept removing it like no big deal (OK , 90% of expanssion is really good, let us be not too hard on Firaxis because of this one thing) if there would be some futuristic concept that would have some sense ... if only thing in Future era is GDR , or if other thing are just statistical changes (like you get bonus to something if you researched this tech + halloween dress for GDR upgrade) then you would need to disable whole era and not just GDR.

 

[Disgustipated]

if only thing in Future era is GDR

They did note there's an opportunity to get another diplomatic victory point in the future era, and that there would be some way to thwart a diplomatic victory from another player. Presumably there will be other victory condition stuff in the future era as well, especially science victory.

 

[Pistol90]

They did note there's an opportunity to get another diplomatic victory point in the future era, and that there would be some way to thwart a diplomatic victory from another player. Presumably there will be other victory condition stuff in the future era as well, especially science victory.

But what if that diplomatic point is just given to you if you researched some tech , or researched and build some city projects ... What I want to say is there wouldnt be some new units, concepts, buildings, districts but just some "math" which gives you something. If only "real" thing on the map would be GDR

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Don't be hating on giant dancing robots. In fact, Firaxis should add an extra button so we can have the GDR dance. Given the sheer size and weight of the beast, it'll bring a whole new meaning to the monster mash.

I will grant you this: a dancing GDR would fit right in with the cartoon graphics of the current units, like Spearmen slinging enemies around on the points of their spears . . .

 

[The googles do nothing]

If the GDR has been included as part of an end of game alien invasion and not a player unit this would be a thread about why they didn't make it a playable unit. The people posting would be different for sure.

In short: allow our existing unit lines that are already on the field in multiple instances to be faster, have more reach and cause more damage - and therefore be able to conquer more cities in shorter time - rather than a few uber-robots that won't be so much faster due to their inevitable rareness on the battlefield?

The GDR might end up being a better defensive unit. Just have a GDR protecting an airfield would be impregnable to the AI.

 

[Aristos]

Don't be hating on giant dancing robots. In fact, Firaxis should add an extra button so we can have the GDR dance. Given the sheer size and weight of the beast, it'll bring a whole new meaning to the monster mash.

They could even tie the dance to the new Disaster mechanics, the JDR (Jumping Death Robot) would create an earthquake every time they dance or jump over the mountains.
Now that would be strategic!

 

[Pistol90]

I think people who support GDR dont really get point of us who are aggressively against it.
Civilization doesnt need to be historically accurate game (there can be Attack helicopter against knight battle) but it needs to be historically authentic (things need to have at least some sense). And thats why GDR jump out of equation , its simply too ridiculous even for Civ game.

 

[Tiger Genocide]

I have no problem with a robotic gun rig, we are already working towards that. The problem is the GIANT. Anything larger than it's surroundings draws attention to itself. Just as the use of all caps in my second sentence demonstrates. The history of armored warfare teaches us that low profile enhances survival on the battlefield (as long as crew efficiency is not hampered). The idea that there will be 60 foot walking robots on the battlefield someday is totally ridiculous. (Robotics will allow us to create tanks with a lower profile than is possible with a manned tank!)

It would have been much better if the robotic gun rig was a tank upgrade, because that it what it will be in the future. Infantry will have powered armored suits in the future and my add 3-6 inches to an infantryman's height, but this will be a far cry from a giant robot. The book Starship Troopers gives a better idea of what future warfare will look like than Star Wars or the Transformers.

The only robotic gun rigs we are working on or have already are all drone based. Drone warfare is the future. Eventually nobody will use a lot of infantrymen for an open pitched battle. I have also seen some future weapon tanks that have anti tank missile interception technology inside them with ballistic missiles for anti air capabilities. These next gen tanks are basically land based battleships with many capabilities built in.

 

[Ogro]

- Allow the upgraded unit to bypass city"walls", attack the cities' health right away and without the necessity of artillery/bombers?

This thing jumps over mountains, it better be able to ignore walls, or it will become joke on top of joke...

 

[Aristos]

This thing jumps over mountains, it better be able to ignore walls, or it will become joke on top of joke...

Perhaps it will be able to also jump over walls...?

 

[SammyKhalifa]

While GDR wouldn't have been my choice, I also don't get the outrage. Oh no, something in Civ might not be realistic, haha.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Perhaps it will be able to also jump over walls...?

GDR: The Beach Bully that kicks walls into your face instead of sand. . .

Actually, with just a little madness among the graphic artists and designers, the GDR could be the ultimate Destroyer of the end-game: kicking holes in your dams and flood barriers, jumping up and down on your Districts, Drop-Kicking your Special Ops teams into orbit - if nothing else, it would add a welcome note of whimsy to what is usually a pretty dull endgame.