Discussion - Game Time And Terms

[Splime]

Equuleus, your crazy rants are destroying the reputation of the left, and I ask that you please stop.

 

[Equuleus]

I am not claiming CSP is a crime gang I said fifty chat is.

I am saying that the fifty mafia is going to ruin the game with this horrible idea of abstract time.

 

[Equuleus]

Equuleus, your crazy rants are destroying the reputation of the left, and I ask that you please stop.

Crazy rants?!
A reasonable idea such as scaled time was winning and then when fifty chaters flooded the game and flipped the vote, when I protest this I am "crazy" sure what ever you say....

 

[Methos]

I am saying that the fifty mafia is going to ruin the game

I would have to agree with Equuleus. We've already seen where those who are associated with fiftychat join up and only participate by voting for a "losing", or "close" vote. This game should be about the actual participants.

I strongly believe that if the individual doesn't participate, than their out and their vote doesn't count. I believe this is somewhat handled in our current Constitution.

Edit: Looks like lack of participation is only for officials:

Article 7 Misc
Section 2. If a person is inactive for 1 week they will be removed from their ministry/SC seat/PMship. However, if a person knows that they will be absent in advance they may appoint someone to take his or her place until he or she returns or the term ends.

 

[Gaius Octavius]

I would have to agree with Equuleus. We've already seen where those who are associated with fiftychat join up and only participate by voting for a "losing", or "close" vote. This game should be about the actual participants.

I have to believe that if Equuleus is for something (anything at all... it could be free marijuana for all citizens) then fiftychat and crew, at the behest of certain members, would automatically oppose it. While there is nothing wrong with this theoretically (they can do whatever they want), that doesn't mean the rest of us want to operate that way.

Like I said, this game is basically Off-Topic redux...

 

[downtown]

I have to believe that if Equuleus is for something (anything at all... it could be free marijuana for all citizens) then fiftychat and crew, at the behest of certain members, would automatically oppose it. While there is nothing wrong with this theoretically (they can do whatever they want), that doesn't mean the rest of us want to operate that way.

Like I said, this game is basically Off-Topic redux...

Then you don't know us, of this game very well.

FIFTYCHAT IS NOT A POLITICAL PARTY. If you look at every member of the MP who ever goes into fiftychat, you will not find that we vote the same way, even when we are on the same party. If you look at say, the pot bill, you'll find lots of fiftychatters who voted with Equ (the bill passed, along with others that he has supported)

Y'all all really melodramatic and paranoid. Plus, fiftychat is open. If anybody wants to pop in and see what we're all about, come on it.

It has nothing to do with OT. Me and Equ are both democrats in OT.

 

[Gaius Octavius]

Then you don't know us, of this game very well.

FIFTYCHAT IS NOT A POLITICAL PARTY. If you look at every member of the MP who ever goes into fiftychat, you will not find that we vote the same way, even when we are on the same party. If you look at say, the pot bill, you'll find lots of fiftychatters who voted with Equ (the bill passed, along with others that he has supported)

Y'all all really melodramatic and paranoid. Plus, fiftychat is open. If anybody wants to pop in and see what we're all about, come on it.

It has nothing to do with OT. Me and Equ are both democrats in OT.

Take it up with Methos, then, because I cannot speak to any real degree of certainty as I have not been active much. However, one of my reasons for doing so was due to the largely immature and/or amateurish way the game was being run, and from my experience with fiftychatters that describes them to a "T."

And really, saying both you and Equuleus are Democrats in OT doesn't have anything to do with it. One of my reasons for leaving was precisely because the game was far too liberal, e.g., like the left-wing of the Democratic Party. If anything, the politics here are even more left than in OT, which says a lot indeed.

 

[Red Door]

Half the regulars of #fiftychat aren't even in Model Parliament, if the "Fiftychat Party" was real, you'd see a lot more fiftychatters voting and playing.

And GO, the Conservative Party was the biggest party for a while until John left and the rest of the party collapsed. I don't see why this is a "Left Wing" game at all. If you're going to play, quit complaining, and start trying to get a conservative party running, but if you just want to complain, which you really seem to enjoy, I haven't seen you make one post that seems you want to play, you'd rather claim how Liberal the game is, you can join Provolution on the side-lines.

 

[Gaius Octavius]

Nobody ever said there was a "fiftychat party." What EQ said was that there's a "fiftychat mafia," and you of all people, Mr. Cosa Nostra Party , should know that this can be spread across many organizations, with no centralization.

I am not complaining about the game per se; I am simply saying that if we are going to continue with what John HSOG called a "ridiculously ******ed" nation, with crazy rules, there is no point in playing. Part of the reason I can't get the Conservatives going is that they don't want to be around all the liberals anymore, because they're minimized! (Gee, that sounds familiar...)

BTW, the Conservative Party was never strong; from the beginning we had maybe four or five people who were active. The rest signed up and never posted again. If you could see the private sections of the old party webpage, you'd know that.

 

[Red Door]

Nobody ever said there was a "fiftychat party." What EQ said was that there's a "fiftychat mafia," and you of all people, Mr. Cosa Nostra Party , should know that this can be spread across many organizations, with no centralization.

There is no fiftychat mafia, or party, I just showed you that.

I am not complaining about the game per se; I am simply saying that if we are going to continue with what John HSOG called a "ridiculously ******ed" nation, with crazy rules, there is no point in playing. Part of the reason I can't get the Conservatives going is that they don't want to be around all the liberals anymore, because they're minimized! (Gee, that sounds familiar...)

If John HSOG doesn't have the guts to show how a nation should be run, that's his problem. But cut and running isn't the solution anyways.

BTW, the Conservative Party was never strong; from the beginning we had maybe four or five people who were active. The rest signed up and never posted again. If you could see the private sections of the old party webpage, you'd know that.

And whose fault is that?

 

[Gaius Octavius]

There is no fiftychat mafia, or party, I just showed you that.

I would need transcripts of every chat in the last few weeks to prove that one way or the other, and even then, it wouldn't be conclusive. I honestly don't really care if there is a "mafia" or not. Having one might actually make things more interesting.

If John HSOG doesn't have the guts to show how a nation should be run, that's his problem. But cut and running isn't the solution anyways.

Says Mr. Get-out-of-Iraq-now.

And whose fault is that?

I don't blame anybody. It just completely destroys the argument that this place is well-balanced. There is virtually no right to speak of.

You want to know the real reason I'm "complaining"? Because we're having arguments like this. If it were over policy, or a bill, or an election, that would be fine, but this is too much like regular OT. I don't come here to have strenuous debates every day, I come here to play a game. For anything else, I can go to OT.

 

[downtown]

There is virtually no right to speak of.

You want to know the real reason I'm "complaining"? Because we're having arguments like this. If it were over policy, or a bill, or an election, that would be fine, but this is too much like regular OT. I don't come here to have strenuous debates every day, I come here to play a game. For anything else, I can go to OT.

The fact that there is no right to speak of is exactly your (and John, etc's), fault. Do you expect us to invent right wingers for you, for the sake of ballance? CFC is a huge website, and surely you have friends in real life. If you want ballance, you go get it. I went and recruited tons of people who have similar political values to mine, and thats how the CSP started.

To quote your own rhetoric, pull yourself by your own bootstraps, dont come in here looking for a handout.

We've had elections. There are several bills up right now, including our national budget. You are more than welcome to post your own bill. I'm going to ask you again, and this goes for everybody.

If you want to play, PLEASE DO. We need more active members. Start a bill, post in a discussion thread, etc etc.

 

[Gaius Octavius]

The fact that there is no right to speak of is exactly your (and John, etc's), fault. Do you expect us to invent right wingers for you, for the sake of ballance? CFC is a huge website, and surely you have friends in real life. If you want ballance, you go get it. I went and recruited tons of people who have similar political values to mine, and thats how the CSP started...

No, now that is not exactly fair. The reason there is no right to speak of is the same reason that John and company were skeptical about this working in the first place--because conservatives are outnumbered on CFC, and we wanted to keep it to CFC only. We don't believe in forcing people to do things, and no one can force someone else to play.

Where is Emperor2?

Where is Head Serf?

Where is Godwynn?

Where is everybody else?

And if you assume I have friends in real life, you assume correctly... yet I cannot think of a single one who is a conservative, let alone who'd also like to join a Civilization forum to play a simulated parliament game. They're all out busy studying physics or chemistry or something, and don't have time.

All told, I'm perfectly happy to play, even if outnumbered--makes it more interesting. You're taking my criticisms to an extreme.

Once again, THIS is exactly why I was skeptical of it--there are too many ridiculous debates over trivial issues. If you want to get beyond that and start getting back to the game, I'm all for it. But if we are going to sit around and debate the "vast fiftychat-wing conspiracy" every time a vote doesn't go the way we wanted, then it'll get old fast.

So in the end, if the game is worth doing, let's get on with it already! I'm sick of the petty bickering as much as you are.

 

[Splime]

Equuleus, you do realize that the vote started out with abstract time in the lead, right? While "fiftychat voters" are a significant problem, you have used this rhetoric whenever a large number of people disagree with you. This is also similar to Provolution, as whenever his ideas didn't go through, he claimed that it wouldn't be detailed enough and fall apart.

 

[Provolution]

We will keep you posted, we just got ahold of some interesting news...

 

[Methos]

Half the regulars of #fiftychat aren't even in Model Parliament, if the "Fiftychat Party" was real, you'd see a lot more fiftychatters voting and playing.

That's the problem, we're seeing fiftychatter's voting, but not playing. Go through the PM vote and the Game Time vote and you'll see names like MobBoss, Fifty, Gogf, Hittite, etc. Now, look around this forum and do you see where they're participating? During the PM vote several of them joined and appeared to be participating, as some of them chose cities or other things, but than they just disappeared. Than the Game Time and GM votes come around and all of a sudden they show up again. So yes, there is a problem. I want to play with others who will participate, not just throw a game because they can.

 

[Perfection]

Mobby hasn't been in #fiftychat for a long time. Hitti's a pretty rare sight and I've never seen him talk about model parliament, so that leaves Fifty and Gogf who were around when downtown and I were talking about Provo. Is that a major problem for you, methos? Should I not talk about model parliament in #fiftychat? And hell, this wasn't even a policy thing. Where was the evil #fiftychat mafia in all those bills we passed?

 

[Methos]

Mobby hasn't been in #fiftychat for a long time. Hitti's a pretty rare sight and I've never seen him talk about model parliament, so that leaves Fifty and Gogf who were around when downtown and I were talking about Provo. Is that a major problem for you, methos? Should I not talk about model parliament in #fiftychat? And hell, this wasn't even a policy thing. Where was the evil #fiftychat mafia in all those bills we passed?

Check out my reply in the "A Question To All...." thread and you'll see why I'm so bothered. My problem isn't with fiftychatters themselves, so long as they actually participate. My problem is having people come in and vote just to throw it a certain way. I'm even bothered about the PM vote and I voted for downtown. What's the point in playing a game if the full time participants who actually play the game can't have their own desires run the game? What's the point in playing when you can expect a group of non-players to come in a swing the vote in whatever way they decide? Why play a game that your technically not even playing due to the actions of a non-player group? Do you see my point?