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DMOC's Immortal Game #3: Julius Caesar

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by DMOC, Jun 18, 2009.

  1. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    Yeah, I seriously delayed Oxford for far too long ... :lol: problem was, the city building it needed a while to get serious production. Also, no stone. :mad:
     
  2. Sic Transit Zeb

    Sic Transit Zeb Chieftain

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    thanks for the help guys.

    That stack you have is really dangerous. I'm going to be moving up to Regent soon, I'm nervous but I've handled monarch pretty well...not as well as you though. lo.
     
  3. Cheeze

    Cheeze Civ Re-Re-Re-Addict

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    Thanks for the replies, DMOC. I'm not used to thinking of Mansa as a military power!

    I guess I was wrong on the power/factories numbers too. Apologies.
     
  4. endymion

    endymion Chieftain

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    Hi DMOC are u gonna fnish the game or is it getting to tedious. thats what always happens to me late game when its clear that i win. I only really finish games where its close that i win or not. Im playing on monarchy now and especially how u micro and handle diplo are a great help.
     
  5. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    It's not tedious at all.

    I might have mentioned this in the ALC but I'll say it again, I'll play after my SAT's on October 10th.

    Whether it's this game, the ALC, or another one of my multiplayer games, I don't know.
     
  6. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    Round 12: 1790 AD to 1826 AD [19 Turns] - A Viking's Acquiescence, and Then Some...


    Defeating the Vikings didn't really take long. Tanks roll over riflemen with ease. ;)

    Here's the newly assimilated Viking land, with resources and without. Oh, and if it wasn't obvious, Ragnar is now my vassal.

    1826 AD (And I'm researching Fusion :lol:.)





    Ah, but I don't have my military here. Where is my military?



    Yeah, you guessed it. After the war with the Vikings, which wasn't worthy of screenshots, I turned around (yes, I had to travel all the way through Ottoman territory to get to Sumer) and capitulated Gilgamesh. Because I had nuclear weapons, and he didn't, the war was pretty easy.



    I have two main stacks.





    Which will heal and head off to my next target. (Of course, I'll have to leave some forces guarding the captured cities, in order to prevent them from revolting to Japanes and/or Sumerian culture.)

    In my mind, the obvious next target is Mansa Musa. He's currently the only person on this continent of mine who doesn't belong to my vassal team. He's at tech and power parity (pretty impressive for someone who resides in territory that's half tundra and snow). He's also pretty close to me. The only problem I forsee with fighting him is that Mansa has nuclear weapons. A war with him will not be a pushover like the other wars.



    The heart of Mali.



    The heart of Rome.



    I don't even know why I'm building the Space Elevator. I guess it was for points. I'll probably cancel that build. :lol:

    So what to do about the war? Here's a typical Mali garrison.



    I assume I want to capture this city on the first turn of the war, right? (Gets rid of ships and planes.) In order to do so, I'll need ships in that sea.

    I also want to get a couple of cities on the east side of Mali ASAP. I am a huge fan of capturing cities on the first turn of a war - it's so efficient. :goodjob:



    Power:



    The next war will have more detail in its update.

    By the way, there are only seveal teams left.

    1. Rome + Vassals
    2. France + Vassals
    3. Aztec + Vassa
    4. Mali
    5. Ethiopia
    6. Persia (Oh, I'm at war with them ... didn't realize that :crazyeye:)

    So now that this round comes to a close, I have some questions. These are legitimate questions since I don't war in the modern era. (My games are usually done by Rifling.)

    1. Now that Mansa Musa has nuclear weapons, how do I go about mitigating that threat? I can't remember if I have the SDI or not (I'm sure I do) so will the SDI protect my stack if it happens to reside in a captured Mali city still in revolt? What if a stack is out in the open?
    2. Will I be able to see if Mansa Musa has ICBM's in his cities? I remember long ago when I played with ICBM's that I couldn't recall seeing any in my opponents' cities.
    3. What should my forces be composed of? We have virtually every unit in the game available to us. Modern armor, mechanized infantry (for defense), gunships(?), and ... ?
    4. How should the process of capturing a city be done. ICBM's first, or bombers first? And then I follow through with 2-move stacks? Should I even use ICBM's? (Global warming is already affecting us.)
    5. Napoleon and Montezuma are both in "WHEOOHRN" mode - they could be after me. What do you think?

    The save (and it's big!):
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Kadazzle

    Kadazzle Emperor

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    If you use ICBMs, no need to use Bombers. I'd say Nuke 3-4 cities, capture them, then capture 2 cities on the East on the first turn of war.

    as for Modern Warfare, I really don't know good combination's. I usually just bring a ridiculous amount of units.
     
  8. Shoot the Moon

    Shoot the Moon Playing World in Conflict

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    Wow, surprise update! Wasn't really expecting that with RBPB2 and all ;)

    Time to go reread this thread and try to remember this game.
     
  9. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    Yeah, I was originally going to build up my forces so that I have 1.5 times Mansa's power. I wish there was an easier way, though. I don't want a stack of modern armor ruined by 1 nuke from Mansa.

    I'm a second semester senior in high school. You know what that means, right? ;)
     
  10. Aaroc

    Aaroc Warlord

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    I don't have a whole lot of experience with modern warfare and such, and I still have yet to win a game even on Noble once (though I did come close once, it was down to me and Elizabeth.. no.. the fat one.. Victoria? fighting each other, while Willem probably built up his own troops to swoop in and attempt to kill whoever was left between us) but I ended up getting bored of nuking her fat ass. I probably could have capped her, if I didn't always disable vassal states in my custom games these days.. Anyway...

    You have to cut MM off from any uranium he may have access to, whether that be by using a spy, good old pillaging, bombarding it/them with fighters (which isn't always terribly reliable), or nuking his uranium mines (Yes, nukes are fairly reliable at pillaging improvements). You'll probably want to build Bomb Shelters in all your cities ASAP, just in case he's built a few nukes already to shoot you with. I don't know if you'll see ICBMs in his cities or not, but I do recall having seen a tactical nuke sitting in one of Victoria's cities once when I was fighting her... or did I just have enough EP to see that she was building one... I can't exactly recall, but I'm pretty sure I saw the unit in her city. Nukes can be pretty fun. When I was fighting Viccy I was able to destroy everything in her city before attempting to capture it (two nukes per city was typically enough to do the job), so all I had to do was enter the city and raze it. (Had I been smart, I would have kept the cities and won by Domination eventually, but my plan was to kill off Viccy and then obliterate Willem.)

    In any event, I'm not expert on the subject, but there's my experience so far. I didn't have to worry too much about bomb shelters because at the time I was fighting Viccy, I had a slight tech lead on her so she didn't have the ability to build nukes until halfway into the war, so I'm not sure exactly how effective they are, but it would probably be prudent to make sure all your cities have one.
     
  11. weltraeumer

    weltraeumer Warlord

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    awesome game :D
    I never played immortal myself, emperor gives me troubles enough... I see your research bar either at 100 or 0%... is this faster than just keeping it at dunno 60?

    nukes, as far as I experienced, (and my mind recalls total chaos and disaster) the ai will throw everything at you the first turn :D
    he´s aiming for your troops not cities... the biggest stack he sees will be nuked, then move on to next next bigger... of course if your troops are in your city... well :p I guess he´s mostly having the smaller ones (not the icbm) transported in his ships docking at his coastal cities... the more coastal cities you capture in one turn, the lesser nukes he got... so my theorie :D
    I would suggest some recon missions to see every corner of his land and where his troops are located, you don´t see his nukes... but as I mentioned you see his missile cruisers... I would devide your army to your land behind... so that you can carfully merge stacks after the apocalypse... don´t know how many nukes you got and if he got the sdi... if yes, one out of four will eventually explode... better you got an insane number of them ready... this and one or two transports with marines for each city... maybe you can cut his empire in half by destroying some narrow railroad passages... so that the captured cities will not be recaptured immediatly... every engaging unit is probably doomed :D and who cares about global warming :nuke::crazyeye:
     
  12. weltraeumer

    weltraeumer Warlord

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    another thought... does the ai nuke his own city, after its captured? or is he even able to nuke it because of his own culture border? or get all troops into someone elses territory which he is unable to nuke (so again the theorie :D)... like your navy at napoleon territory by the city of phoenician
     
  13. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    I think you can nuke in your own land, but you can't do it if you have a city within the 9-tile range or if you have ANY friendly units in range (including units from other civs that are in your borders w/open borders).
     
  14. Silu

    Silu Deity

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    You can nuke your own cities, units and territory as much as you like. The AI also does this, I've had an AI drop a nuke directly on its own city (not captured) to get to my stack next to it.

    What you can't do is nuke somewhere where it'd damage/kill foreign friendly units. Understandable as that'd probably be seen as a declaration of war.
     
  15. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    Interesting, so Mansa is free to nuke my stack in his territory at his will. It is highly unlikely that any neutral party will be in Mali territory since I have the entire continent except Mali under my control.

    Anyway, the plan is to build tons of modern armor/mechanized infantry (defense)/mobile artillery. I'll probably end up banning nuclear weapons via the United Nations after I feel that I've produced enough for my desires. I don't want too much Global Warming. I'd turn that off but that means no one could open the save.
     
  16. jamescat

    jamescat Chieftain

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    This thread sure came out of nowhere. I'll have to go back an re-read i think.

    Same here. It's nice isn't it :D
     
  17. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    Yes jamescat, I know. It's nice to relax before college. I have yet to receive a single college acceptance letter, though. (I did submit them a bit late.)

    I've played the next round, and it will be a bit screenshot-heavy, as it focuses on many nuances of a modern-era war.

    One odd thing I'm finding from this game is that Montezuma is at risk of defeating me via a culture victory. So is Hannibal via space. Hm .....

    Edit: Updated the first post with future titles, etc.
     
  18. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    1826 AD to 1844 AD [12 Turns] - Showdown With Mansa Musa! (Part I) - War Preparation


    You might notice that this is a lot more detailed than previous rounds. Because I want to learn more about using modern era troops I'll spend more detail on this and future rounds.

    To start the round, I tried to adjust some city builds and micromanage to make sure that I could start the war as soon as possible. For instance, I switched Yasodharapura to building a modern armor rather than the Space Elevator. I would, though, later use a Great Engineer to finish the wonder anyway. I had 3 engineers this round - I had to use them somehow! I had 1 engineer from last round, 1 from this round, and 1 from Fusion.

    Spoiler :


    Here are my late-game civics. I'll probably remain in these for the rest of the game. Maybe I'll want to use Free Market if I ever feel the need for corporations - but I highly doubt it. My use of corporations in detail will come in another game to come. ;)

    Spoiler :


    Here's Rome, my oldest city. It's building a bomb shelter, just in case someone decides to nuke it. I don't think the AI will actually do it, but I guess it's good practice and incorporates some realism. As you can see, there are 5 idle workers, which is actually a bad thing since they should have been out near the front building forts so my ships could get to certain land areas, removing some cottages and replacing them with farms and watermills, but I was a little lazy.

    Spoiler :


    Vimayapura - my Oxford University city. This has to win my award of the lamest Oxford city I've ever had. Not only did I complete Oxford in the 1700s, but I'm not even using the full fat cross. :lol:

    Spoiler :

    Angkor Thom - Iron Works. As you can see, it's building the SDI for obvious reasons.

    Spoiler :


    Madrid - the former Spanish capital is now one of my core cities. It's health situation will improve after the supermarket is finished. Supermarkets have to be one of my favorite late-game modern era buildings. I can't recall if they're ever accelerated by a trait - I don't think so.

    Spoiler :


    And just a little random thing - I'm actually kind of happy that I got this ice city from Gilgamesh.

    Spoiler :


    Apparently, those mines happen to be my only source of silver! There are a couple of silver veins in Aztec, Egypt, and Babylon, but of course I wasn't getting them! Oh yeah and I control the United Nations, if that's any surprise. The first thing I did was get every city to have +1 trade routes.

    Here's Uruk, the fallout-covered former Sumerian capital. It's got a nice corporation headquarters. I'm surprised I get the gold from it even though I'm in State Property.

    Spoiler :


    After a few turns went by, the next United Nations resolution appeared. (Can I just say that B.U.G. is excellent in that it tells you the predicted voting outcome of, say, a UN win or a UN secretary general decision :D.)

    I selected the nuclear weapon treaty. I've already got several ICBM's (and I think some tactical nukes) and I didn't want my opponents to get any. As you can see from the screenshot, Napoleon has yet to research Fission. This means, if I recall correctly, Mansa Musa is the only leader who has nuclear weapons at his disposal. I like employing this tactic - beeline Fission, build nukes, and then before your opponent can build them - you deny them via the United Nations! :)

    Spoiler :


    As I mentioned before, B.U.G. tells me that I won't win a United Nations victory.

    Spoiler :


    Back to other "pressing issues." Here's a sign that naval warfare is a bit lacking in the modern era. Cyrus (who I'm still at war with) sent one ship to attack me. One ship.

    Spoiler :


    With much of my military preparation completed by 1844 AD, I called it a round. The next round will feature actual war vs. Mali.

    Here's the overall view of Mali.

    Spoiler :


    I plan on attacking from 5 different places at once (potentially, six, if I can get a decent stack where it says "Planes/Ships") and capturing 5 Mali cities on the first turn of the war. Then, I continue to attack through the interior. My aim is to finish the war in 5 turns. That shouldn't be a problem especially since I have 2 Great General promoted Gunships to have faster healing.

    The sign where it says "planes/ships" has a fort on it so planes and ships can reside there. I'm hoping to get 2, maybe 3 transports there, so that's 12 modern armor in total. If the garrison of the city stays the way it is, I might have a shot of taking Djenne. Maybe I'll need some planes to do so, or a nuke (though I really wish I didn't have to waste a nice nuke on such a minor city).

    Spoiler :


    Here's the garrison of Mali. I shouldn't have a problem taking it once my troops get settled.

    Spoiler :


    Victory Conditions. I'll have to keep an eye on Montezuma's cultural victory and Hannibal's space race victory. But if I have a quick war against Mali, I don't forsee them being obstalces to my victory. (Which, to be fair, was kind of pre-determined right after I defeated Spain.)

    Spoiler :


    Power (note Napoleon's spike - I still don't know who he's after. It's highly likely he's after me):

    Spoiler :


    My current stack of about 90 troops (and I have another mini-stack to the east which is marked as "Stack 5" on my previous map, AND a naval stack of 10-20 transports and lots of missile cruisers). That should be enough, considering this is immortal and not deity. ;) I prefer playing immortal over deity in most cases anyway since it makes the game more relaxing and enjoyable. Deity is much more about trying to catch up to the AI's and fully exploiting their weaknesses, whereas in immortal we can at least feel more equal to the AI's early.

    Spoiler :
     
  19. TCMIV

    TCMIV Barış Manço

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    I've been skimming over your threads recently, and I just wanted to say these are really helpful. I just recently bought this game from the steam holiday sale, and I was totally lost at first. This site in general, and specifically your game synopses, has really helped me grasp the more complex aspects of this game :)

    Really enjoy the saved games especially, just to see what tile improvements you have set up and how your cities are specialized. Helped me the move from automated workers and producing every single building possible in every city, to managing my workers and specializing my cities. :goodjob:
     
  20. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    Thanks TCMIV. :goodjob: That is really a major point of me posting these walkthroughs anyway. That, and posting them helps me finish games (usually I quit late game, but not here!).

    My worker specialization isn't 100% optimal - if it was, I'd be using the workers to mow down cottages and replace them with more productive tiles.

    ---

    Does anyone think I should be using Mining Incorporated Corp. to help speed up the win date? Would it be helpful?
     

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