Do you folks think happiness is to harsh this version 2.7?

[ma_kuh]

I probably should have been more clear, the weaponization I meant was spying, either through destroying improvements or directly causing a revolt, which is an outcome of (negative) happiness but also a directly-triggered spy event. Maybe it's unfair to conflate the two.

 

[Jhang]

The main way to weaponized happiness is through war weariness and ideological pressure. As long as a player's happiness is such that the happiness penalties from these methods can actually influence a player to react to it, then I think it's fine in that regard.

And pillaging! Can't forget the pillaging.

 

[Rekk]

And pillaging! Can't forget the pillaging.

Yes, I forgot that pillaging directly causes unhappiness in addition to war weariness.

 

[gabrielsfarias]

Harsh? I don't know, but it's completely bonkers in my games. I hardly can get it past 50% from end of Ancient Era and forward, and most of my games it stays in 34-44% the whole game, with the occasional random spike to 55%. I usually retire when the first city rebels (which is very frequent).

 

[greenfieldpark]

Harsh? I don't know, but it's completely bonkers in my games. I hardly can get it past 50% from end of Ancient Era and forward, and most of my games it stays in 34-44% the whole game, with the occasional random spike to 55%. I usually retire when the first city rebels (which is very frequent).

Consider locking your cities growth to prevent massive unhappiness. I start locking my cities happiness at 4 (except for my capital). Then i build infrastructure. Get more workers and make improvements. Then ill unlock my cities for a couple more pops before locking again. And then repeat this cycle. This is a temporary measure as there will be a new happiness system replacing the current one (much to my chagrin ).

 

[ma_kuh]

One thing that's interesting is that I feel like I was able to manage the unhappiness, hovering around 45-55%, but with a tradition start and four cities, I was caught a little bit with some of the national wonders, 1 pop short. I probably could have stomached the extra unhappiness, but I don't think I've ever been in that situation specifically, having trouble getting to national wonders because of unhappiness problems. I'm playing on emperor, epic speed, standard size, if you think it matters.

 

[Stalker0]

The other thing the happiness system does is it strongly rewards ability and beliefs that give you early yields. When I play god of the sea for example, I can expand like mad, grow as I wish, and I'm rarely unhappy. The reason is you gain a lot of extra yields early on that combats the happiness. That snowballs, you grow more, get more yields, etc etc.

Whether that is "good" or not is debatable.

 

[Recursive]

But on the other hand; poor, uneducated and bored people are more likely to have kids

...And, as you know, people do a lot of strange things when they're bored! Eventually, the land was so overpopulated that it was about to sink into lava...

 

[alchx]

Sometimes a coup quest is given to a city-state that is in someone's sphere of influence. This is not good (and impossible). We must respect the decisions of the World Congress.

The Miracle Projects from Congress seem somewhat unbalanced. First place is a very chic award, and second place is incomparable. In particular, the Canal construction project is the possibility of repairing ships outside friendly waters. And for the second place, the frigate and 3 units will not consume upkeep. The value is incomparable.

To take first place, you need to switch all cities to production and rearrange the entire population to mining hammers. And after completion, all this is returned back, which is a very long time with 15 cities. And the first place is absolutely not guaranteed even with the strongest economy in the game, if there is no Great Engineer to use for the project. I produced about 1700 hammers against 1200-1300 of the nearest competitor, 7 states built this Channel exactly 1 move, but I finished in second place with a lag of 700 hammers. This is absurd.

As a result, for 1-2-3 turns, we completely stop the development of the state for the sake of 1 frigate and some savings in allowance for 3 units (about 7-8 coins).

 

[mrpilhas]

My last game with Iroquois, I went Progress with DV in mind, had Truffle monopoly and from the 3 CS available on my continent 2 were maritime. That game became unfun really quick.

 

[Stalker0]

Sometimes a coup quest is given to a city-state that is in someone's sphere of influence. This is not good (and impossible). We must respect the decisions of the World Congress.

The Miracle Projects from Congress seem somewhat unbalanced. First place is a very chic award, and second place is incomparable. In particular, the Canal construction project is the possibility of repairing ships outside friendly waters. And for the second place, the frigate and 3 units will not consume upkeep. The value is incomparable.

To take first place, you need to switch all cities to production and rearrange the entire population to mining hammers. And after completion, all this is returned back, which is a very long time with 15 cities. And the first place is absolutely not guaranteed even with the strongest economy in the game, if there is no Great Engineer to use for the project. I produced about 1700 hammers against 1200-1300 of the nearest competitor, 7 states built this Channel exactly 1 move, but I finished in second place with a lag of 700 hammers. This is absurd.

As a result, for 1-2-3 turns, we completely stop the development of the state for the sake of 1 frigate and some savings in allowance for 3 units (about 7-8 coins).

Did you mean this for a different thread? This is completely off-topic to the subject of happiness.

 

[SpankmyMetroid]

Infrastructure does not seem to do anything. In my games, it seems every citizen will generate an unhappy, no matter what, even in the capital. So you can only balance it out with policies, luxuries, and happiness improvement buildings... those are finite. At some point soon you will be unable to grow any more... and then good luck with any kind of conquest and maluses that comes from puppets and occupied cities. It's kind of unplayable.

 

[CppMaster]

Infrastructure does not seem to do anything.

That's just wrong. Some buildings do reduce unhappiness and almost all increase yields that fulfill needs.

 

[SpankmyMetroid]

That's just wrong. Some buildings do reduce unhappiness and almost all increase yields that fulfill needs.

Any unhappiness mitigated by needs (like barracks reducing distress) is just picked up by another need immediately, it seems like, unless you're completely ahead of the pack... and if you are, the game is already won.

 

[HeroOfTheSword]

I think it's okay to have happiness harder than what it was say in the last version, but my issue is it needs to be easier on the respective difficulty levels. For example in my most recent game I played with the Chieftan difficulty level and happiness was still really really hard thus stiffling my growth which sort of defeats the point if I want to play an easy fun game.

 

[gabrielsfarias]

Consider locking your cities growth to prevent massive unhappiness. I start locking my cities happiness at 4 (except for my capital). Then i build infrastructure. Get more workers and make improvements. Then ill unlock my cities for a couple more pops before locking again. And then repeat this cycle. This is a temporary measure as there will be a new happiness system replacing the current one (much to my chagrin ).

Oh I thought this was some hack the pros here use. Didn't know it was actually a strategy, trying it right now. Incredible how the happiness goes down extremely quick, I knew something was wrong, thanks.

 

[youngsteve]

I think it's okay to have happiness harder than what it was say in the last version, but my issue is it needs to be easier on the respective difficulty levels. For example in my most recent game I played with the Chieftan difficulty level and happiness was still really really hard thus stiffling my growth which sort of defeats the point if I want to play an easy fun game.

Although I love happiness in this version, I do agree it should be alot easier early on, then really building up as you go up the levels, with Diety being really unhappy civs. Wierdly, it seems to be people playing on harder levesl who are moaing about the unhappiness levels.

 

[DImensiondog]

Although I love happiness in this version, I do agree it should be alot easier early on, then really building up as you go up the levels, with Diety being really unhappy civs. Wierdly, it seems to be people playing on harder levesl who are moaing about the unhappiness levels.

I’m on warlord and any time I go abov 4 cities before renaissance-industrial It’s over. If I do 4 city I will win because the ai overextended and invaded my incredible economy. However I don’t lock pops because i think it reduces overall success later.

 

[CppMaster]

Just reporting. On King, small communitas, standard speed, playing as Portugal with 6 cities, Progress + Statecraft. I have 100% happiness on 6 cities without ever locking growth or doing public works. So it's not that bad, although I was at about 40% late classical. In my experience the happiness is much easier in later eras.

EDIT: This game was played from start with the fix: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/new-version-2-7-3-october-7-2022.679489/page-17#post-16356365
Make sure to report unhappiness issues while you play without the bug.

 

[josh4]

No unhappiness problems in my current deity India game. Excessive growth locking (also to milk +50 gold per citizen in medieval). And some cities really have no good tiles, village on grassland with trade route without road is not worth growing. Mumbai was 8 citizens from turn around 70 until 130 now, still no reason to grow and it's grabbed Angkor Wat, protected my from the Iroqious, was a base for long production trade routes, and generally was stellar. Agra was built up on three pop and prod trade route. It worked three stoneworks buffed stones and got it sustain food from policies, buildings. If a city gets everything what it needs for the turn count on three pop, why grow?