Do you recognise Kosovo?

[Winner]

So, Serbs should be be rewarded for attempting to commit genocide?

Nothing like that has ever happened If the Albanians had not started an insurgency (funded by drug money), the Serbs wouldn't have to intervene in 1999.

(funny that Serbs were punished for something which is now the main focus of almost all Western militaries...)

 

[Winner]

Anyway, I'll recognize independence of this Breakaway Gangster Republic of Kosovistan only after the Serbs do the same.

 

[JohnRM]

Yeah, the Kosovo-Albanians should not be angelicized here. They've committed their fare share of crimes over the decades.

 

[Verge]

Sure, I recognize Kosovo's independence, even if its future success is questionable.

 

[red_elk]

They won't be independent de jure, UN won't recognize them

 

[Kosez]

Well, it happened and there is no way back.

I can understand Serbian anger as Kosovo was populated with Serbians well into 20th century and Albanians became majority not so long ago.

But what is done is done. Europe has a long history of people and nation fluctuation, only a few nations in Europe can claim possession of their lands for longer than millennium. Some nations lived where other live now, some have disappeared...

History cannot be stopped. Kosovo is majority Albanian and they felt they needed their own state. It was inevitable.

 

[silver 2039]

(funny that Serbs were punished for something which is now the main focus of almost all Western militaries...)

I didn't' know all Western militaries are now focused on carrying out genocide?

 

[Winner]

Sure, I recognize Kosovo's independence, even if its future success is questionable.

Umm, how do we define independence? Because as I see it, Kosovo is totally dependant on EU/NATO countries.

 

[Winner]

I didn't' know all Western militaries are now focused on carrying out genocide?

Well, if you were capable of understanding the first part of my post, you'd know that I said that no genocide has ever been carried out against Albanians

In fact, the only thing that comes close was the 1999/2004 ethnic cleansing committed by the Albanians against the Serbs. But Albanian genocidal tendencies made their first appearance during the WW2. They're really no better than Serbs, I'd say they're even worse in this respect.

 

[silver 2039]

Well, if you were capable of understanding the first part of my post, you'd know that I said that no genocide has ever been carried out against Albanians

Meh you're like a Holocaust denier too ignorant to talk to I suppose.

 

[Elrohir]

Honestly, as long as they aren't assassinating any archdukes or genociding their neighbors, I could care less about the Balkans.

 

[Winner]

Meh you're like a Holocaust denier too ignorant to talk to I suppose.

Do you have any clue about what happened in 1999? You don't, obviously. It is by no means comparable to any real genocide, the Serbs did not try to exterminate Albanians in Kosovo, they merely tried to eliminate Albanian insurgents/terrorists who started attacking Serbian police and officials in the late 90's. They were a bit harsh, but that's normal in the Balkans. The West acted on the basis of totally false information that a Bosnia-style ethnic cleansing is taking place.

 

[Winner]

Honestly, as long as they aren't assassinating any archdukes or genociding their neighbors, I could care less about the Balkans.

Well, I do since most of drug trade here in the Czech Rep. is now handled by Kosovo Albanian gangs. Fruits of liberation - thank you very much...

 

[kronic]

Fine by me. If they don't want to live under Serbian authority I don't see why they should be forced to do so.

And you're wrong, Gabryel K., Germany is most likely to recognise independance on Wednesday.

 

[silver 2039]

Civilians killed by Yugoslav ground forces

The exact number of civilians killed is unclear.

In August 2000 the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY) announced that it had exhumed 2,788 bodies in Kosovo, but declined to say how many were thought to be victims of war crimes.[51] Earlier however, KFOR sources told Agence France Presse that of the 2,150 bodies that had been discovered up until July 1999, about 850 were thought to be victims of war crimes.[52]

In June 2000 the Red Cross reported that 3,368 civilians (2,500 Albanians, 400 Serbs, and 100 Roma) were still missing, nearly one year after the conflict. [53] Some of the missing civilians were re-buried in mass graves in Serbia-proper. In July 2001, the Serbian authorities announced the discovery of four mass graves containing nearly 1,000 bodies.[49] The largest grave was found on a Serbian Police training ground in Batajnica just outside of Belgrade.

Although it far exceeds the 4,400 killings reported to human rights groups, statistical experts working on behalf of the ICTY prosecution estimate that the total number of dead is about 10,000.[/B][54] Their higher estimate was based on the controversial assumption that most people wouldn't report the killing or disappearance of a loved one.[55]

The estimate of 10,000 deaths is also used by the U.S. State Department, which cited human rights abuses as its main justification for attacking Yugoslavia.[56]

A study by the Lancet estimated "12,000 deaths in the total population."[57] This number was achieved by surveying 1197 households from February, 1998, through June, 1999. 67 out of the 105 deaths reported in the sample population were attributed to war-related trauma, which extrapolates to be 12,000 deaths if the same war-related mortality rate is applied to Kosovo's total population.

Shortly before the end of the bombing, Yugoslav President Slobodan Milošević, along with Milan Milutinović, Nikola Sainović, Dragoljub Ojdanić and Vlajko Stojiljković were charged by the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia (ICTY) with crimes against humanity including murder, forcible transfer, deportation and "persecution on political, racial or religious grounds".

Further indictments were leveled in October 2003 against former armed forces chief of staff Nebojša Pavković, former army corps commander Vladimir Lazarević, former police official Vlastimir Đorđević and the current head of Serbia's public security, Sreten Lukić. All were indicted for crimes against humanity and violations of the laws or customs of war.

War crimes prosecutions have also been carried out in Yugoslavia. Yugoslav soldier Ivan Nikolić was found guilty in 2002 of war crimes in the deaths of two civilians in Kosovo. A significant number of Yugoslav soldiers were tried by Yugoslav military tribunals during the war.

Sure thats why all these guys were charged.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo_War

 

[Winner]

Fine by me. If they don't want to live under Serbian authority I don't see why they should be forced to do so.

I am sure the West will now recognize the Turkish republic in Norther Cyprus. If they don't want to live under Greek authority...

If all ethnic groups that want independence got it, the world order would totally collapse into chaos and violence.

 

[kronic]

I wouldn't mind an independent Northern Cyprus.

 

[RedRalph]

Why not Transdneistr, Kronic? Abkhazia? South Ossetia? Nagorno-Karbach? Most people in County Derry dont want to live under British rule, should it be allowed secede unilaterally?

 

[kronic]

Your point?

 

[holy king]

obviously that county derry deserves independence,
what did you think?