Do you support the Iraq war TODAY??? NOTE: READ ARGUMENT FIRST! THEN vote

Do you support the Iraq war today?

  • Yes

    Votes: 46 30.9%
  • No

    Votes: 103 69.1%

  • Total voters
    149
:rolleyes:

Hands outstretched, dissident Kurds and other Iraqis there and elsewhere asked for and received tens of millions of dollars in CIA funds. They spent the money on light arms and ammunition, communications gear, publishing materials, broadcasting equipment, cars and trucks, food and medicine -- all items they said they needed to harass Saddam, foment a revolution or plot a palace coup.

Egged on by lawmakers and policy officials, the CIA's leadership found it hard to say no to anyone who asked for U.S. assistance to oppose Saddam. Dissidents set off some bombs, recruited defectors, fought a brief military battle with Iraqi troops in March 1995 and took hundreds of Iraqi army prisoners, not at the CIA's explicit direction, but with its strong encouragement and financial support.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/longterm/iraq/stories/cia091596.htm

US imposed sanctions using its sway in the UN and those sanctions were enforced by the US and its "junior partner" UK. - Princeps

Oh. Sort of how the US has imposed sanctions against Iran by using its sway? Or how it used it's sway to get everyone behind GWII? Or how it uses its sway to realize how asinine the UN's positions are regards to Israel?
 
:rolleyes:

Hands outstretched, dissident Kurds and other Iraqis there and elsewhere asked for and received tens of millions of dollars in CIA funds. They spent the money on light arms and ammunition, communications gear, publishing materials, broadcasting equipment, cars and trucks, food and medicine -- all items they said they needed to harass Saddam, foment a revolution or plot a palace coup.

Egged on by lawmakers and policy officials, the CIA's leadership found it hard to say no to anyone who asked for U.S. assistance to oppose Saddam. Dissidents set off some bombs, recruited defectors, fought a brief military battle with Iraqi troops in March 1995 and took hundreds of Iraqi army prisoners, not at the CIA's explicit direction, but with its strong encouragement and financial support.

But you do realise that this in the end, brings US to worser light... first they gave the Shites some weapons and false hope--- and then they refused to support the rebellion and virtually permitted Saddam to brutally crush the rebellion... is this the case or is CIA support a myth? Why the conflicting media attention --- other elite intellectualist paper justifing Saddam and the other claiming that US was behind the rebellion?

Your arguement is also weakened by the fact that State Department banned all contacts with the Iraqi opposition, maintaining this policy even after the Gulf war.

And if US wanted to overthrow Saddam back then -- why not just support the rebellion more effectively, given that the Shite rebbelion could've overthrown Saddam.

Oh. Sort of how the US has imposed sanctions against Iran by using its sway?

Undoubtedly. UN in the end, is often a puppet entity for the west.

Or how it used it's sway to get everyone behind GWII?

When was everyone behind GWII?

Or how it uses its sway to realize how asinine the UN's positions are regards to Israel?

Yes -- US uses its veto power to prevent a broad international consesus on the sitatution -- like it has for decades.
 
Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to sit here and pretend like things went as they should have. I'm just really confused as to how people on this earth living in free societies can hold the opinion that stability is more favorable that human and civil rights. It really boggles my mind. You guys like to use the Ben Franklin quote, "he who would give up a little freedom for security, deserves neither freedom, nor security" as an argument against something petty like the patriot act. But then you turn around and say we should have left a horribly brutal dictator with ambitions a mile wide for the sake of stability. Of course a dictatorship was stable. Duh. At what cost though?

To clarify, we oppose all dealings. The US should never have dealt with Saddam in the first place.

Yeah. The US claims to want freedom and democracy.
But the record opposes this completely. If you think the US supports democracy around the world, you are a fool with a priori opinions.
I don't think the US is evil, though. Its foreign policy is controlled by money.
In Guatemala in 1954, the US intervened to overthrow a democracy with more egalitarian designs and land reform programs because United Fruit Company wanted it to.

In 1953, the nationalization of Western oil fields drove the overthrow of Iranian democracy.

At the turn of the 20th century, the US went to the Philippines because it needed to "expand its markets". Christianizing the natives had nothing to do with it, because they were already Christian.

In the 1980s, when relations had soured with Iran, the US saw a partner in Saddam to get the oil.

Wikipedia and any college history textbook will tell you this. The point is, the US almost never intervenes for freedom and liberalism. One of the first foreign dealings the US had was to support the French planters in Haiti at the request of Southerners. When John Adams went into office, he gave money to the rebels, not being a slaveowner himslef.
 
Princeps. Oi. Alright. So in regards to Israel, the UN perfectly, purely, and righteously reflects international concensus, and bucks the US. In this regard, the UN is unabashed in rejecting the assertions of the US.

However...when it comes to Iraq. They were dupped into imposing those sanctions. They were swayed. It surely wasn't a reflection of "concensus."

When was everyone behind GWII? - princep

Exactly.

The idea that...the sanctions were not an indication of "international concensus" is utterly absurd. It's just another lexicon folks like you use to try and paint the US as the bad guy, and not Saddam Hussein, who any way you slice it was ultimately responsible for what happened to Iraq and its entire history.

But you do realise that this in the end, brings US to worser light... first they gave the Shites some weapons and false hope--- and then they refused to support the rebellion and virtually permitted Saddam to brutally crush the rebellion... - princeps

Yup. Although it really didn't have much impact on postwar kurdistan, it's been a huge obstacle in the Shi'ite south.

The US should never have dealt with Saddam in the first place. - MrT

Why not in "the first place?"

Are there obvious, dubious eye sores in America's foreign policy? Oh yeah. But in general, there are far more bigger examples of the US supporting democracy, than supporting tyranny.
 
Hmm, I see you're ignoring the 26 year gap in their attacks, which ended after a PFLP official was assassinated by the Israelis. Was the payment Saddam made to the PFLP within that gap? I don't think i'll bother looking it up, considering the quality of the rest of your 'facts'.
Yeah, you're right, my mistake. It was a giant boat full of people. Ya know he shot a wheel chair bound man in the head, and then rolled him into the Mediterrainean?
Yes thanks. But he wasn't paid to do it by Saddam, and he wasn't trained to do it by Saddam, so what's your point? OMG a terrorist fled to Iraq when no-one else would take him... that says a lot for Saddam's relationship with Islamist Jihadis: they hate him 'cos he's a dictator who barely pays lip-service to Islam.
I was under the impression that Abu Nidal was seriously ill, going to die, and killed himself. That's the story the press ran with, but I guess the Palestinian media is a trustworthy bunch. Anyhow, my point was that Saddam had a habit of harboring Abu Nidal types, as well Zarqawi. You know, like how the Taliban harbored Osama. Oh well...
*Shrug* The alternative to trusting the Palestinian press here is trusting the Iraqi press, i'm kinda surprised you're siding with the Iraqis, but hey: that's your call.

Did Saddam train or bankroll this guy? Nope. Did Nidal conduct any terrorist activities whilst living in Iraq? Nope. Again, he was essentially 'retired' and no-one else would have him. There's that bestest buddies relationship betwixt Saddam and Islamists again: when does an Islamist terrorist go to Iraq? When he'll be arrested everywhere else.
Salman Pak:
... blah blah w/ever...We'll pull documents out of it and see what the documents say, if there's any links or indications. We'll look and see if there's any persons that are recovered that may not be Iraqi. All of that is detailed and deliberate work that happens after the fact.

So there were third country nationals. That were trained there for the insurgency. Interesting. *we'll just assume all this stuff is true shall we, tsk tsk*

A November 2003 assessment from DIA noted that postwar exploitation of the facility found it "devoid of valuable intelligence." The assessment added that CIA exploitation "found nothing of intelligence value remained and assessed that Iraqi Intelligence Service (IIS) cleaned it out." The DIA assessment concluded that "we do not know whether ex-regime trained terrorists on the aircraft at Salman Pak. Intelligence in late April 2003 indicated the plane had been dismantled. DIA and CENTCOM asses the plane was sold for scrap.

What on EARTH makes you think that this facility was used for wholesome reasons...
Summation: in 2003 the facility was considered suspect.

It's kinda sad that to support your case you quoted a load of 4+ year old reports by the DIA and CIA. Even sadder that the CIA report "found nothing of intelligence value". And when I look up what the DIA and CIA et al have said since then, what do you think I find?

After the war, U.S. officials determined that a facility in Salman Pak was used to train Iraqi anti-terrorist commandos...PBS Frontline - who originally carried many of the allegations of Iraqi defectors - similarly noted that "U.S. officials have now concluded that Salman Pak was most likely used to train Iraqi counter-terrorism units in anti-hijacking techniques."
The Senate Select Committee on Intelligence concluded that "Postwar findings support the April 2002 Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) assessment that there was no credible reporting on al-Qa'ida training at Salman Pak or anywhere else in Iraq.
In June 2006, the DIA told the Committee that it has 'no credible reports that non-Iraqis were trained to conduct or support transnational terrorist operations at Salman Pak after 1991.
the DIA's postwar exploitation of the facility found "no information from Salman Pak that links al-Qa'ida with the former regime."
the DIA's postwar exploitation of the facility found "no information from Salman Pak that links al-Qa'ida with the former regime."
(All quotes from wiki) Summation: apart from people who rely on 4 year old hearsay for their information, everyone now accepts that Salman Pak was used as an anti-terrorism training camp. That probably goes again to highlight the wonderful rapport Saddam had going with Islamist terrorists.
 
Yes thanks. But he wasn't paid to do it by Saddam, and he wasn't trained to do it by Saddam, so what's your point? OMG a terrorist fled to Iraq when no-one else would take him... that says a lot for Saddam's relationship with Islamist Jihadis: they hate him 'cos he's a dictator who barely pays lip-service to Islam. - brennan

He was given an Iraqi diplomatic passport. He was given material support from Iraq.

How much was the bankrupt Taliban giving Al Queda? Oh yeah, nothing.

*Shrug* The alternative to trusting the Palestinian press here is trusting the Iraqi press, i'm kinda surprised you're siding with the Iraqis, but hey: that's your call. - brennan

I'm not siding with anyone. I'm siding with logica and common sense. Nidal was going to die anyway. Why assassinate him?

And I really don't understand how you can sit here and say that "third country nationals" were not trained at Salman Pak after 1991, when third country nationals were captured there, and have been captured and claimed they were trained in the run up to the war as an insurgency...

All of your quotes there, go under the assumption that Saddam was all together good fellow. And just misunderstood. The reason there was nothing found, was because the place was cleansed just like everywhere else, to hide the true nature of the activities going on there.

Now, I'm not gonna sit here and say that the primary purpose of the facility wasn't to counter rebels in Kurdistan. Fine. But to sit here and say that third country nationals were never trained there, and that nothing shady ever took place there is just lunacy...Particularly when third country nationals were found defending the place...
 
If you think I'm far left, then I don't want to know what you think actual leftists are.
 
He was given an Iraqi diplomatic passport. He was given material support from Iraq.
His relationship with Iraq started after his terrorist activities made him a pariah everywhere else. Neither bankrolled nor trained by Saddam.

How much was the bankrupt Taliban giving Al Queda? Oh yeah, nothing.
I think it's fairly common knowledge that OBL didn't need bankrolling, and the relationship between the Taliban and Al-Q was demonstrably close:
al-Qaeda-trained fighters known as the 055 Brigade were integrated with the Taliban army between 1997 and 2001.
wiki OFC. I think your attempt at a comparison fails.

I'm not siding with anyone. I'm siding with logica and common sense. Nidal was going to die anyway. Why assassinate him?
You're getting way off the issue at hand in trying to score a point. Not bankrolled or trained by Saddam. Only associated with Iraq when already a pariah elsewhere.

And I really don't understand how you can sit here and say that "third country nationals" were not trained at Salman Pak after 1991, when third country nationals were captured there, and have been captured and claimed they were trained in the run up to the war as an insurgency...to sit here and say that third country nationals were never trained there, and that nothing shady ever took place there is just lunacy...Particularly when third country nationals were found defending the place...
Funny, everything i've read says that it was information extracted from defectors and foreign fighters outside Iraq that led the facility to come under suspicion. I see nothing that says foreign nationals were actually captured there.

Foreign forces were indeed trained at Salman Pak: in counter-terrorism. All the current analysis states clearly that there is no credible evidence that it was a terrorist training camp.

All of your quotes there, go under the assumption that Saddam was all together good fellow. And just misunderstood. The reason there was nothing found, was because the place was cleansed just like everywhere else, to hide the true nature of the activities going on there.
All my quotes show that the people you used to back up your case do not in fact share your conclusions, having given the evidence a thorough study and finding the allegations to have no basis in fact.
 
Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to sit here and pretend like things went as they should have. I'm just really confused as to how people on this earth living in free societies can hold the opinion that stability is more favorable that human and civil rights. It really boggles my mind. You guys like to use the Ben Franklin quote, "he who would give up a little freedom for security, deserves neither freedom, nor security" as an argument against something petty like the patriot act. But then you turn around and say we should have left a horribly brutal dictator with ambitions a mile wide for the sake of stability. Of course a dictatorship was stable. Duh. At what cost though?

:lol: This is really humorous considering another huge proponent of the war (Mobboss) believes in the war for freedom of iraqis but then also believes in the patriot act. etc etc. It's reflected on both sides really...

The real qualm for me isnt with dictators at large, it's more with spending our tax dollars on "fixing" problems or "protection" but doing it with a poly anna attitude that everything will go peachy keen.
 
I support military isolationism in general but hate economic isolationism. It really comes down to the problem of politicos committing our army to situations that have little benefit to us.

The idea that we have a moral obligation enforce human rights and depose dictators who abuse them is undermined by our selective involvement with certain countries. It is undermined by our support of certain dictators in certain situations that benefit us. It is undermined by our insistence that we are morally superior and we don't have double standards.

I wont deny that Saddam was evil, did awful things to the people of Iraq, and Iran, and could have posed a threat to some of our allies (Israel). The facts speak for themselves on these matters (and I really appreciate your desire to find them and explore them. I don't think we do that enough. On the other hand, what we do with these facts is important and the rationale for action needs to be evaluated soberly.)

The main qualm I have is the extrapolation of the facts into speculation that drives us to take huge actions for a relatively small and minor problem. Even if Saddam wasn't a minor or small problem, relative to other problems, was he the most pressing and dangerous problem to American or Allies safety?

I also have problems with the hubris and ignorance of the current administration to the possibilities and realities of the war. Perhaps I wouldn't be so antagonistic towards the war if we had an administration that was honest from the start, didnt pump the war up, didnt shift the reasons from one thing to another, didnt openly criticize the press for "only reporting the bad things" (a skeptical, and critical press is essential to democracy. in fact this is one thing that bothers me to this day; the fact that the MSM was not critical of the administration from the outset of the war being sold. The desire of the MSM to get access to the admin, and war reporting clouded any criticism and objection that should have been raised.) If the administration also didn't do other stupid things all the time (firing prosecutors, cheney claiming he isnt part of the exec branch, invoking 9/11 all the time), they wouldnt seem so dangerous or arrogant.

Overall the reasons for war are moot at this point. The reality is we need to focus on the future and learn lessons from this entire thing. I support a withdrawl within the next 2 years. I dont believe that continued government spending at the current level is going to resolve a lot of the conflict and problems within Iraq, nor do I think our continued involvement in Iraq bodes well for our international status. The other problem is that of recruiting future soldiers for our army. I believe that Iraq in general has been bad for long term recruiting effort of our army and national guard.

Finally I think that any humanitarian concerns for withdrawl are weak. People throw the word genocide around but honestly, should civil wars not be fought simply because people will die? Should we enforce a status quo on our tax dollars simply because we have a distaste for death that might bring stability to a nation? or an antagonistic government to our nation?
 
His relationship with Iraq started after his terrorist activities made him a pariah everywhere else. Neither bankrolled nor trained by Saddam. - brennan

Okay, that doesn't discount the fact that Iraq had given him a DIPLOMATIC passport, which was a get out of jail free card after he hijacked the boat.

I think it's fairly common knowledge that OBL didn't need bankrolling, and the relationship between the Taliban and Al-Q was demonstrably close: - brennan

I know. In fact, OBL financed the Taliban, and gave all kinds of other support to the Taliban. My point is that support for terrorism doesn't necessarily have to come in particular form or fashion. The Taliban, for instance, basically only provided a safe haven for Al Queda and OBL. Whereas Saddam provided support for various terrorist organizations in many other ways. From financial support to PLO groups, to sheltering wanted terrorists, and providing training for terrorist activities in Salman Pak. Support for terrorism is support for terrorism. No matter how implicit it might be.

You're getting way off the issue at hand in trying to score a point. Not bankrolled or trained by Saddam. Only associated with Iraq when already a pariah elsewhere. - brennan

And notoriously wanted by a lot of people and governments. Why shelter him in the first place?

I see nothing that says foreign nationals were actually captured there.

A raid occurred [at a training camp near Salman Pak] in response to information that had been gained by coalition forces from some foreign fighters that we encountered from other country, not Iraq

I wont deny that Saddam was evil, did awful things to the people of Iraq, and Iran, and could have posed a threat to some of our allies (Israel). The facts speak for themselves on these matters (and I really appreciate your desire to find them and explore them. I don't think we do that enough. On the other hand, what we do with these facts is important and the rationale for action needs to be evaluated soberly.) - MrT

But then this.

Finally I think that any humanitarian concerns for withdrawl are weak. People throw the word genocide around but honestly, should civil wars not be fought simply because people will die? Should we enforce a status quo on our tax dollars simply because we have a distaste for death that might bring stability to a nation? or an antagonistic government to our nation? - Mr. T

I don't see this as very linear. But I won't argue with anything else you say. I just generally think the war should have been fought on principal and sold on principal. Saddam should have been taken care of many moons ago. I won't disagree with you that there are periods of history that can be called into question pertaining to our support and propping up of certain dictators, turning a blind eye to others, but then replacing some. I'm critical of those moments of faut as well, and believe that American's need to learn from them in order to not repeat the mistakes of the past. I disagree with how the war was sold, and that Bush went to war on PR hype on what essentially amounted to a gamble. And treated the situation on the ground as a gamble during the initial post war period as well.

However, in principal, I believe that any western country that is free and forthright has a duty to ensure that other nations are at least upholding human rights. How morally bankrupt is a society that turns a blind eye to genocide, or what was taking place in Iraq under Saddam? How much credibility does that foster. I disagree with taking an isolationist foreign policy, because in the end, it will simply end up making us look more selfish, dirtier, and bankrupt than if we are taking action. If the west turned inward, instead of outward, the world would turn into a gigantic mess on so many levels and in so many different locations.

I believe that Iraq in general has been bad for long term recruiting effort of our army and national guard. - Mr T

I don't think so. Recruitment and retention rates are all higher since the war.
 
I don't think so. Recruitment and retention rates are all higher since the war.

Which rates is that,

(i) the rates by USA nationals;

OR

(ii) by foreigners from poor third world countries who have been promised the right to immigrate to the USA with their family after serving?
 
I would say both.
 
Okay, that doesn't discount the fact that Iraq had given him a DIPLOMATIC passport, which was a get out of jail free card after he hijacked the boat...Saddam provided support for various terrorist organizations in many other ways. From financial support to PLO groups, to sheltering wanted terrorists, and providing training for terrorist activities in Salman Pak. Support for terrorism is support for terrorism. No matter how implicit it might be...And notoriously wanted by a lot of people and governments. Why shelter him in the first place?
It's just part of Saddam's rather transparent policy of appearing to be some sort of champion of Islam. No one ever fell for this; in fact it's well known that the Jihadis despised Saddam as much as anyone else, the fact that all you can come up with is a few anecdotes about terrorists who only went there once they'd burned their bridges elsewhere kinda makes the point.
A raid occurred [at a training camp near Salman Pak] in response to information that had been gained by coalition forces from some foreign fighters that we encountered from other country, not Iraq
I *still* see nothing that says foreign nationals were actually captured there.
 
I don't see this as very linear. But I won't argue with anything else you say. I just generally think the war should have been fought on principal and sold on principal. Saddam should have been taken care of many moons ago. I won't disagree with you that there are periods of history that can be called into question pertaining to our support and propping up of certain dictators, turning a blind eye to others, but then replacing some. I'm critical of those moments of faut as well, and believe that American's need to learn from them in order to not repeat the mistakes of the past. I disagree with how the war was sold, and that Bush went to war on PR hype on what essentially amounted to a gamble. And treated the situation on the ground as a gamble during the initial post war period as well.

However, in principal, I believe that any western country that is free and forthright has a duty to ensure that other nations are at least upholding human rights. How morally bankrupt is a society that turns a blind eye to genocide, or what was taking place in Iraq under Saddam? How much credibility does that foster. I disagree with taking an isolationist foreign policy, because in the end, it will simply end up making us look more selfish, dirtier, and bankrupt than if we are taking action. If the west turned inward, instead of outward, the world would turn into a gigantic mess on so many levels and in so many different locations.



I don't think so. Recruitment and retention rates are all higher since the war.

the thing about recruitment is that the incentives for joining and staying have been upped a considerable amount in this period. but is that sustainable and perhaps even desirable?

as for being morally bankrupt, its a matter of where you want to be morally bankrupt. on the one hand we might be morally bankrupt for deposing of saddam and withdrawing from Iraq, but on the other hand we might be morally bankrupt for ignoring humanitarian crisis such as Sudan...it all depends on where you want to be consistent.

Being morally bankrupt shouldnt be our only concern though (especially if the world already views us as such). the welfare of the united states population, and economy shouldnt be ignored just to soothe the consciousness of a portion of the population that thinks being morally sound abroad is the biggest imperative in foreign policy.
 
The incentives for joining are pretty much the same. The incentives for re-upping are generally dependent on what job you have. Ground pounders don't have much incentive to stay in unless you're E-6 or above. The big incentives to stay are in, are in EOD, pilots, and medical area's. Oh, intel is also huge. One of the problems with intel though, is just...the complete lack of recruits that want to do it, the complete lack of people that want to do it that can even join in the first place, and the low number of recruits that actually make it through their training.

I for one, don't think that huge enlistment bonuses, re-up bonus', and whatnot are altogether healthy in some regards. On the other, you need to make the jobs comparable to the market. There's no reason why GI's shouldn't have access to the VA, get money for college when they get out, and recieve a comporable wage while serving. There needs to be a fine balance between giving servicemen and women a competitive wage and benefits, but also ensuring that it's not so fat as to recruit those that don't really wanna be in it.

I can understand that before 9-11, that the military, particularly the Army, Navy, and Air Force, as well as all branches of the reserves, were completely polluted with people in it for the benefits. But now, I don't think there's a whole lot of recruits, particularly in the Army and the Marine Corps, that are joining with those motives.

In large, I agree with our stance on the Sudan. But like Somalia, I can tell you first hand, that Sudan...as a global geo-political entity, is not one dimensional. There's a lot of moving parts there, and knowing what I know about it, I think it's unfair that America is sharing the forefront of the blaim for nothing taking place there.

So far as global perception, it's just that. I would sooner continue what is ideologically sound, and morally upstanding, and at the same time do a better job at convincing the world that what's being done is right. But...Bush is just absolutely abysmal at this. He needs to go. He really does. Because as genuine as his desires for a free Iraq may have been, it's all clouded black because of the lack of stockpiles of WMD's in Iraq. We need new people in charge, fighting the ignorance, informing the rest of the world, and showing progress that's taking place.

The media hasn't helped us in any regard either. As you pointed out, the media didn't criticize anything in regards to the run up to the war. They were beating the drum...why? War sells advertisements. Through years of stagnation fighting an insurgency and staving off civil war, the media has been focusing on a single perspective of this conflict, dead GI's and dead Iraqi's. Why? Death and violence sells advertisements. I think we'd get a long way in the world and regaining the trust if we shifted gears and started showing some of the GOOD that's come out of Iraq, Afghanistan, and tons of other area's where our fight on terrorism has largely been rooted in humanitarianism. Until that happens, the violence will completely overshadow all of it. Muslims in Indonesia, and the world will never remember the incredible effort put forth by the armed services of the US and Mr. Bush during the time of the Tsunami when all there is on the TV screen is the scenes of car bombs in Iraq.

I honestly feel that this entire fight is nothing more than a battle against ignorance. It's all ignorance and a lack of truth. The whole world says the war was illegal, but knows nothing about the extent of the oil for aid scandal, which completely clouds the vote on the war, the legality of this war, the perception of this war, and invariably, the progression of this war.
 
I know almost everyone here is to FAR left, so this is kind of pointless, I guess, but do you think that the continued occupation of Iraq is justified?

I say yes. We got in there, and it is our duty to finish what we started. We should stay there and reduce the terrorist thread as much as possible. When the government WE put there is stable, we should leave.

PLEASE READ:But in the mean time, if we leave, another dictatoship will take power (openly terrorist supporting) and we will have another war that will cause the 3000 dead in Iraq to be wasted lives, and will cause another 3000 dead in the next war, not counting those dead in terrorist attacks founded by the new regime.

So what do you think on my arguments?

What I want to know is: Why is everyone writing thread lately? Isn't it supposed to be threat? As in: "Hamas is a threat to Israel". I've seen it in several threads today (no pun intended).
 
Back
Top Bottom