Do you think Feminism is a step to far ( “feminist criticism” )

[JollyRoger]

I'll redirect this question right back at you because it applies as equally to my argument as it does to yours. Financial aid and scholarships should be gender-blind.

That would assume that you have not desire for gender diversity at your institution and you were willing to stumble around blindly with gender imbalance. But one gender isn't as willing to pay for a seat to the degree aniother gender is, thus if your institutional purpose requires a segment of the market that does not want to pay the sticker price that another segment is willing to pay, you would need to lower the price. You haven't even been denied a seat in the class and only have to be bitter about being in the presence of two foreign women who might or might not be paying the same price you are willingly paying.

 

[Trajan12]

Have any of you ever read any gender theory authors or anything on feminism?

For real. I tend to shy away from any discussion of feminism anywhere but in explicitly feminist environments because they tend to be strawman hacking fests. You can't talk about the game with people who don't even know the rules.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Have any of you ever read any gender theory authors or anything on feminism?

I listened to a Spice Girls album.

 

[deanej]

That would assume that you have not desire for gender diversity at your institution and you were willing to stumble around blindly with gender imbalance. But one gender isn't as willing to pay for a seat to the degree aniother gender is, thus if your institutional purpose requires a segment of the market that does not want to pay the sticker price that another segment is willing to pay, you would need to lower the price. You haven't even been denied a seat in the class and only have to be bitter about being in the presence of two foreign women who might or might not be paying the same price you are willingly paying.

I do desire gender diversity but discriminating against men is not the answer. The issue isn't about weather I feel oppresses (I'm perfectly happy with what I got, I don't see why women need to get more). I'm not one of those people that thinks we should force equality of results.

For real. I tend to shy away from any discussion of feminism anywhere but in explicitly feminist environments because they tend to be strawman hacking fests. You can't talk about the game with people who don't even know the rules.

Translation: if it isn't feminist propaganda, I don't want to read it.

 

[Trajan12]

I do desire gender diversity but discriminating against men is not the answer. The issue isn't about weather I feel oppresses (I'm perfectly happy with what I got, I don't see why women need to get more). I'm not one of those people that thinks we should force equality of results.


Translation: if it isn't feminist propaganda, I don't want to read it.

More like if you don't even understand the theory that you're advocating against, I don't want to talk to you.

 

[JollyRoger]

I do desire gender diversity but discriminating against men is not the answer.

How are you being discriminated against? You have opportunities for a free education, but you are willingly choosing to attend a place where you have to pay. Your evidence of discrimination is that you know 2 foreign women that have the same major as you.

 

[deanej]

How are you being discriminated against? You have opportunities for a free education, but you are willingly choosing to attend a place where you have to pay. Your evidence of discrimination is that you know 2 foreign women that have the same major as you.

Actually, neither of those women is my "evidence of discrimination". It's the large amount of free ride scholarships for women computer science majors.

And what opportunities for free eduction? The only one I know of is Wells, and that's because they went co-ed just within a decade and desperately need men. I must admit that I'm not the least bit interested in changing majors of going to an out-of-state college (or even downstate). The cheapest I can think of is community college, but splitting my bachelor's degree between two schools was not something I was interested in.

More like if you don't even understand the theory that you're advocating against, I don't want to talk to you.

You don't need to limit yourself to listing to feminists to get this. Here's a book I highly recommend to everyone: http://www.amazon.com/War-Against-Boys-Misguided-Feminism/dp/0684849569

 

[aneeshm]

@ Trajan

Some theories exist not because there is any intellectual impetus behind them, but because they were constructed for the sole purpose of justifying the existence (and funding) of entire (and entirely useless) academic departments in every university. I do not find it worth my time "refuting" these cranks when they are so transparently in it for the money (or the power, petty though it is), and because:

a) They do not recognise the validity of logic and reason (patriarchal scams, all!), and
b) They do not propose any actual arguments which I could refute (the influence, perhaps, of A?).

I'd point you this this essay. (I may have linked to it before.) Who would waste his time on "refuting" medieval theology? For the same reason, why would I bother to address such cranks and waste my time? I know as well as they do that there is nothing to address and no prospect of convincing them in any case, because they're not after truth to begin with.

 

[aneeshm]

How are you being discriminated against? You have opportunities for a free education, but you are willingly choosing to attend a place where you have to pay.

He is being discriminated against because he is being made to pay while others who are clearly inferior are not. Isn't it blindingly obvious?

 

[JollyRoger]

The truth being that insecurity makes some males irrationally bitter at women?

He is being discriminated against because he is being made to pay while others who are clearly inferior are not. Isn't it blindingly obvious?

He has not provided evidence that anyone "clearly inferior" to him is getting a free ride. He mentions two foreign women, but does not indicate how they are clearly inferior or the amount they are paying. In most affirmative action, you sometimes have the marginally inferior white males losing out to the margionally inferior applicants they are not white males, not the clearly superior of any race or gender losing out or the clearly inferior winning out. So all that is really blindingly obvious is that you are overstating the case.

 

[aneeshm]

The truth being that insecurity makes some males irrationally bitter at women?

To the contrary, the truth being that I've just demolished your argument in one clean stroke, and you're reduced to employing attacks against the person and (rather effeminate) shaming tactics.

You've shown your quality, and it is as I suspected.

 

[deanej]

He has not provided evidence that anyone "clearly" inferior to him is getting a free ride. He mentions two foreign women, but does not indicate how they are clearly inferior or the amount they are paying.

I mentioned them because YOU were talking about the ratio of people in computer science and it didn't make the ratio equal. If you would actually bother to fully read my posts you might understand this.

My whole argument hinges on the amount of scholarships available. Do a scholarship search for computer science and tell me the deck isn't stacked in favor of women.

 

[JollyRoger]

To the contrary, the truth being that I've just demolished your argument in one clean stroke, and you're reduced to employing attacks against the person and (rather effeminate) shaming tactics.

You've shown your quality, and it is as I suspected.

Are you using a shaming tactic there while claiming the high ground?

My whole argument hinges on the amount of scholarships available. Do a scholarship search for computer science and tell me the deck isn't stacked in favor of women.

A 4.0 will get you a full scholarship at many universities, even if you are a white male computer science major. You have chosen one of the cards dealt to you - to pay to attend a program with two foreign females (who may or may not be suprerior in merit to you and who may or may not be paying as much as you), rather than get a free ride at another program.

 

[aneeshm]

He has not provided evidence that anyone "clearly inferior" to him is getting a free ride. He mentions two foreign women, but does not indicate how they are clearly inferior or the amount they are paying. In most affirmative action, you sometimes have the marginally inferior white males losing out to the margionally inferior applicants they are not white males, not the clearly superior of any race or gender losing out or the clearly inferior winning out.

In this case, you're not only misguided in theory, you're just plain wrong. Affirmative action disproportionately favours blacks over far more highly qualified and meritorious Jews and Indians. If affirmative action were stopped and a pure meritocracy instituted, the proportion of whites would remain roughly the same, but blacks would be all but eliminated from the top institutes, and Jews/Indians/Chinese would take their place.

If you want to talk about affirmative action by sex, the "marginally inferior" white male, as you so disparagingly put it (rasist!), is quite clearly the better candidate than the woman who gets in at his cost.

 

[aneeshm]

Are you using a shaming tactic there while claiming the high ground?

No. I think you are shameless. (That's not a criticism, by the way - consider it a form of praise in that you've transcended bourgeois values, or some such claptrap - you are quite adept at making it up, from what I saw.)

A 4.0 will get you a full scholarship at many universities, even if you are a white male computer science major. You have chosen one of the cards dealt to you - to pay to attend a program with two foreign females, rather than get a free ride at another program.

His point - I have to belabour it to explode your repeated attempts at obfuscation - is that given any university, he is discriminated against. That is, for the same program, the achievements required of him are for gaining admission are higher than those required of a woman. Which is obviously discriminatory.

 

[deanej]

That is, for the same program, the achievements required of him are for gaining admission are higher than those required of a woman. Which is obviously discriminatory.

I don't believe I ever directly said that either (at least not in a recent post), but at my university 75% of people admitted are women, yielding a freshman class that is roughly equal (as a whole; individual departments are not equal). Many women transfer within one year. If that doesn't prove that women just aren't interested, I don't know what does.

 

[JollyRoger]

Many women transfer within one year.

The males on campus must be doing something wrong if the womenfolk are fleeing in significant numbers.

 

[aneeshm]

The males on campus must be doing something wrong if the womenfolk are fleeing in significant numbers.

deanej, I suggest we leave old JR to his babbling and ineffectual attempts at shaming tactics. We have reduced him, it is clear he has nothing of value or substance left to say, and the results are quoted above for all to see.

Good day.


Moderator Action: Aneeshm, I suggest you shouldn't resort to personal attacks.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[JollyRoger]

You would at least think the women would transfer to a home economics major so they would make good housewives to the bosses of computer scientists.

 

[Hygro]

Computer Science, not Computer Engineering. And I never said anything about dating.

I'm not less than optimal. I'm in the honors program (which is extremly selective; the size of the entire honors program is around 120 students) and a presidental scholar with a 4.0 GPA. I might ask what country you're from. In the US, there is a large push to get women into technical fields right now, so that's where the scholarship money is. I do have a cople of large grants from the univeristy, but even that only covers half of tuition.

The only place I could go to get a free ride is Wells College, which only started accepting men in the last decade.

He was making an analogy, read his post again because you clearly did not understand his point.