DocT3 Best Start Ever! (Emperor)

Minor criticism:

I had hoped for a screenshot of our lands before founding the uber-crucial future capital :(

Wars: I was thinking in that direction as well. I think we'd need only a handful Swords (Warrior upgrades, cash is about the only thing we have) and Nummies, + maybe an Archer for defensive bombard to minimize casualties, to take out a couple of neighbors. If we somehow manage to become an advanced Gov before that, I think we're doing fine with building the FP e.g in Entremont and the Palace in Utica (or vice versa) simultanously, since both cities will have low corruption as long as Carthage is the capital, during GA.
 
Looks like celts and korea are or have been at war... Celts no longer show a fur in diplomacy screen, so koreans must have pillaged it..

The water SE of utica is fresh water
 
Here is a quick map with a few city locations. First real try at a dot map, but I like the one in the southern hills as it has fresh water. The northern city would be a fishing village, but with a whale and a BG, might be one of our better producers.
 
Ok, you did found it exactly where I wanted it.
No cities within the capitals 20; the Whale city needs to go 1 N.
IIRC there was a reason why other city should go S of the Silks, not N.
The one at the Rice - I really though about it a long time, but I would just plant it S of the rice. It will need a Duct, but note the big inland lake, it can grow bigger there then it could at the small lake.

Bigfoot is up.
Please repeat the Worker merge/Settler thing in Carthage. Keep exploring. And Utica will need a Temple + Granary, once it is connected, chop some forrests. Remember, the chop doesn't need to be in the actual (unexpanded) borders of the city, but within the final 20. So don't chop the Silk Forrest next to Utica first, the city needs to work it.
If we win the Philo race, any objections against Map Making this time?

We can have something even better then Fishing Towns: Lake Fishing Towns. No Harbor, no Duct required :D
 
Got it. I will look this over and play my turns tonight. I assume we are playing 10 now, right?
 
Hey guys, I am new to this forum and yours is the first succession game I have read. It looks very interesting. :goodjob:
 
Pre-turn Status Check
Carthage builds wk. in 3, Utica grows and builds wk. in 6 turns. Phil. due in 20 at max. science. We have 188 gold and 0 gpt.

Rivals: Korea has 104 gold, down Writing and Math; Celts have no gold and are down IW, Writing and Myst.; Japan has no gold and is down Writing and Myst; Sumer. has no gold and is down IW and Writing. We are weak compared to other civs.

<No changes, hit enter. Get message that Sumerians are building the Oracle.>

Turn 1) 1725BC:
- Korea knows Maths. now, still down IW and Myst.
- Japan knows Myst. now, still down Writing. No trades.

Turn 2) 1700BC:
- Move citizen off mtn. in Carthage for extra commerce (wk. builds next turn).
- See horses near BG on the isle due E. of Celts.
<Interturn: Japan demands Writing; we decline and they declare war! Carthage builds worker, starts settler.>

Turn 3) 1675BC:
- Move newly built worker S. to team up with other wk. Looks like lava flow cut the road from Carthage, they will reconnect it on a tile outside of the blast zone.
- See a 2nd BG and bananas near horse; looks like quite a bit of jungle there too.
- Send Wa. out of Carthage to explore the interior of our island.

Turn 4) 1650BC: zzz

Turn 5) 1625BC: zzz <Interturn Utica builds wk., starts Temple.>

Turn 6) 1600BC:
- New worker starts road from Utica to join up with other worker team.

Turn 7) 1575BC:
- See border of another Jap. city NE of Edo.

Turn 8) 1550BC:
- Wk. team is done with detour around lava, move to road iron tile.
- Wa. sees gold near the sugar ‘fresh water fishing village’ site. This should be a good commerce producer for us.
- See Kagoshima on Japan E. coast; isle to the NE.

Turn 9) 1525BC:
- See Satsuma N of Kago.; hilly and cold there.
<Interturn our cultural borders expand around Carthage.>

Turn 10) 1500BC: zzz

Turn 11) 1475BC: zzz

Turn 12) 1450BC:
- Wk. team roads iron, moves to complete the Carthage-Utica highway.
<Interturn: Korea is building Colossus; Japan is building Oracle.>

Turn 13) 1425BC:
- Carthage now size 2, move citizen from sea tile onto mtn.
- Adjust lux. to 10% to prevent riots.
<Interturn: silks now hooked up.>

Turn 14) 1400BC:
- Adjust lux. back to 0%; Phil. due in 7.
- The Carthage-Utica hwy. is completed; move wk. to help chop near Utica, other wk. heads back towards Carthage (settler in 6).

Turn 15) 1375BC:
- Chop near Utica.
- Curragh spots extended sea squares due E. of the isle N. of Sumer.; risks sea crossing.
- 2nd curragh continues circuit around Japan.
<Interturn curragh sinks :( >

Turn 16) 1350BC:
- Spot land to W. of Japan.
- Sumer. learns Poly.; trade Writing & IW for Poly. plus 17G. Trade with Korea Writing, Myst. & 17G for Maths.
<Interturn: chop done near Utica, workers move to begin another.>

Turn 17) 1325BC:
- zzz <Interturn get message Sumer. are building Temple of Artemis.>

Turn 18) 1300BC:
- zzz <Interturn message Ottos. have completed Colossus in Istanbul.>

Turn 19) 1275BC:
- Carthage will complete settler next turn; join worker to make it size 3. Move citizen off mtn. to prevent population loss, settler now due in 2.
- Move lux. to 10% to prevent riots; Phil. in 2 turns.
<Interturn finish chop at Utica.>

Turn 20) 1250BC:
- Worker team moves N. towards BG.
- Wa. spots another silk in SW of our isle.
- Curragh sees more land to W. of Japan.
- We get Phil. next turn, move slider to 10% research for extra commerce (+11 for this turn).
- Carthage builds settler next turn.

Hopefully I didn't do too much damage here. I couldn't see giving in to Japan's demands, and with them that far away and MM still unknown I don't think they will cause us any serious problems. Still, I would like to dedicate our next city for military builds so we can get ready for Koreans and Celts.

Sorry for the lost curragh guys, but it looked like a pretty good shot at finding another civ. (50/50 chance of making it). The alternative route would have had it back-tracking for some time over coastlines we already know.
 
I'llcome up with one before founding the next city. Obvious spots are:
2 N of Utica (Whales)
1 SW of the smaller lake (Iron)
S of the Rice (no way to grab it with a coastal city, and next to the small lake needs no Duct, but has only 3 lake tiles, vs 5 otherwise. And, it can work both the Rice and the Gold without culture) - this would be my choice for the next city)
On the Silks SW of Utica.
Later on the tundra S of Carthage (will increase corruption in Utica now without need)

Btw, completely agree with not caving when not a single Civ even knows Writing. Thanks Togu for the War Happiness (not that our cities are big enough to need it :rolleyes: ).
 
I wouldn't build a {edit: Temple} first. We won't need it. We plan on making and will stay small. We can raise Lux rate if we become unhappy.

I would probably go for a granary. It means the first settler is delayed, but we will catch up and pass it since food is the limiting factor.
 
i concur with Greebley. I would swap to a granary in Utica.
 
If we settle on the hill near the whale next (Romeo's northern city) we don't need a temple. The settler from the capitol can probably get there faster than the 12 turns to build a temple and the border to expand (our new town would work the hills and start a temple to get the whale).

The only question would be if there is another spot that is more desireable for the settler that is worth delaying the granary earlier. I am not seeing one which makes the above plan worth it.
 
Played around a bit with the map.

Ended up with these city placements, also marked off what tiles they can work eventually.. Capital would be able to work less mountains untill hospitals and steam, and few cities would not be able to work all the marked tiles untill hospitals, but in most cases it is a case of 1 or 2 times more.

This city placement would work all known resources, and waste no grassland tiles. Works all reachable coast tiles (except the 4 NW of the new capital that you would need to settle on grass to reach).

A few of the cities (like the one that works the mountain iron would be low priority thou..)

I prolly missed a few things that could be done better thou :)

DOCT3_tiles.JPG
 
(Since IMHO city spot #3 was pretty obvious, I played before the dotmap)

DocT3 &#8211; 1250BC

Trades: 90gp from Korea for Poly isn&#8217;t worth it. We&#8217;re one turn from Philo; though we desperately need more food, I will not pick MM.
Why?
Because I think we need one or two more cheap Curraghs first, and Carthage will drop down to Pop 1/ 1spt anyway. I don&#8217;t want to make MM cheaper for the other Civs.
Plus, our next city will not be coastal as well. Most important, we know Polytheism! Anyone against jumping into Monarchy?
Keep Utica on Temple, I want the BG, especially in Monarchy

IBT:
Philosophy-> Monarchy-> Map Making

Turn 1: 1225BC
Settler done, revolt &#8211; 3 turns. Find Ottoman borders.

Turn 2: 1200BC
Ottos don&#8217;t even know Alphabet. But for 20gp they won&#8217;t get it from me.

Turn 4: 1150BC
The Carthaginian Monarchy is formed. Our 3 citizens :lol: are able to research MM in 30 @-1gpt.

Turn 6: 1100BC
Leptis Magna founded at the Rice. Starts Barracks.

Turn 8: 1050BC
This date sees our first monumental building, a Temple. Utica starts on Granary.

Turn 9: 1025BC
Contact France. Down Philo and Poly. 3gp, no deals.

Turn 10: 1000BC
Oh, Japan has MM. Maybe we should make peace at some point, the glorious Carthaginian Army (one reg Warrior) may not be able to defend our huge empire&#8230;

Turn 11: 975BC
Carthage Curragh-> Curragh, Uticas borders expand.

Turn 12: 950BC
IBT:
Mayans complete Pyramids.

Turn 12: 925BC
Contact said Mayans (share a landmass with France). Down Poly and Philo, 20gp. Despite their GA they don&#8217;t offer gpt, and thus they stay backwards.

Turn 14: 875BC
Wow, France managed to do something useful, and researched Construction. We get close with the 2 visible Techs we&#8217;re up; however, we don&#8217;t need it right now, and if they somehow swap it with Mayans, we&#8217;ll get it cheaper (and we would always get it for Monarchy anyway)
IBT: Carthage Curragh->Warrior

Turn 15: 850BC
France did swap techs with Mayans; both have Construction and MM now.
Polytheism gets us Construction from Mayans, and MM plus 40gp from France. Swap Carthage to Harbor, of course. Start on Currency.

Turn 16: 825BC
Japan has HBR.

Turn 17: 800BC
IBT: Ur completes Oracle.

Turn 18: 775BC
Brennus demands Mysticism. Give in; not that he is any threat, but he is so insanely backwards, he needs some help.


On the dotmap:
Red dots seem the best spots on our landmass. Blue will make good fishing towns (Whales or Gold), but will increase corruption in Utica. Yellow is for later.

DocT3_Dotmap.jpg


However, I&#8217;d like to get that Horses soon.

Horses1.jpg


And, this landmass W from ours looks promising (Wheat! Our people will get sick from all that food.)

Better_Lands.jpg


Builds: We need another Worker badly. Leptis will make 5 or 6spt at size 3, 2-turn Vet Warrior factory. Our Iron will be pulled in in 36 turns anyway, don&#8217;t think we need Swords before. A Curragh in Carthage waits to be upgraded.

General strategy: At least Celts, Korea and Sumeria are as screwed as we are; but I hardly have seen an AI doing that badly as the Celts here. I think we should help them soon to leave this ugly world ;)
Could be a good moment for a nice GA with moving the Palace to Utica and getting the FP up as well (maybe on the Horse island, if it turns out there is water).
Don&#8217;t be too careless with Korea, no more open cities once they know MM. And, they have Iron and Horses.

The Save

This map is incredible. There is a lot of nice land, but most Civs start on horrible landmasses. :lol:

Over to Gyathaar.
10 turns from now.
 
2 of the red spots are in same place as city-spots on my map, so will start off with those places.. the south-west red spot would be better off one tile sw, that way it can work more sea and coast tiles (but would need culture expansion to bring in the silks).. and it has enough tundra-forest around to work untill engineering is in, so can live with building on one.

Blue tile north of futur capital would be able to work a lot more coast if moved up ne one tile (and would still get the whale).

Will start playing soon. :)
 
the south-west red spot would be better off one tile sw
But that means no hill.

Blue tile north of futur capital would be able to work a lot more coast if moved up ne one tile (and would still get the whale).
True, but here it can occasionally borrow the BG from Utica. And has 8 coast plus the Whale.
Note we're not boxed in. We can and should expand on other landmasses. IMHO this map begs for Communism :) .
 
730BC, inherited turn:

Take a look at the situation.

Switch Utica from working mined hill to roaded BG. Irrigation on the BG will finish next turn, which will allow it to grow in 2 turns instead of 4. Cashrush the granary for 24gold so it will finish the turn before growth.

Carthage will complete harbor in 3 turns. Moving the citizen off the mountain and onto the coast drops the research time on currency by 1 turn. This will also make carthage grow in 4 turns instead of 8 turns. Rushing the Harbor for 40gold will make this drop to growth in 3 turns.

Lepis Magna is on barracks.. it needs temple to grow bigger (in order to make more gold).. but rushing a temple here would cost 160gold.. too expensive.. would leave us at 0gold and -1gpt, so I leave it on barracks for now.

Korea is annoyed with us.. the still dont have mapmaking, so still no immediate threat, but I decide to get an embassy with them since it just costs 29 gold, and it will remove some fog of war, and hopefully raise their standing with us. Seoul is size 2, and building the great wall.. 50 turns remaining.
Korea is now polite.

Japan is still at war with us, they wont take straight up peace, and they prolly give us war happiness so I leave the war going for now untill I see a galley approaching.

IBT:
Carthage: Harbor -> settler
Utica: Granary -> Settler


710BC, turn 1:

nothing

690BC, turn 2:

Carthage will grow to 3 next turn no matter what, so set it to work mountain for extra shields.

670BC, turn 3:

Carthage is unhappy at size 3.. need temple,MP or lux.. only lux is available atm, so have to up lux to 10%. Currency in 18 turns instead of 17.

650BC, turn 4:
Decide to sell philosofy to korea and summeria to get some extra cash.
philosophy to korea for 94gold
philosophy to summeria for 90gold

switch lepis magna to temple, rush it for 112 gold

upgrade curragh in carthage to galley for 45 gold

IBT:
lepis magna: temple -> barracks

630BC, turn 5:

The island west of us is looking better and better.. 2 plains wheat, grass cow, tobacco, oasis, 3 fish, iron and 3Bg seen so far (plus 4 normal grass tiles)

610BC, turn 6:

nothing

IBT:
Utica: Settler -> settler

590BC, turn 7:

Carthage will grow next turn.. which will mean we have to raise lux tax again. Decide to rush settler to complete with growth and ship it to the horses before japan grabs it. This means I will have to make peace with japan to make sure I wont get sunk on the way.
Rush settler in carthage for 84 gold.

IBT:

Carthage: settler -> worker

570BC, turn 8:

Realize that growth in carthage DOES put citizen on mined mountain on growth now after we have monarchy and harbor.

Put the settler in the galley that is waiting outside carthage and send them off towards the horse (dont have any escord to send with it.. will have to rush someone to guard the city after it is founded)

Make peace with japan to make sure they dont sink out galley with settler.

Best peace deal I can make is getting 57gold from them for mathematics (along with peace). They still have monopoly on horseback riding, and we would have to give them both polytheism and mathematics to get that, and we dont really need it yet.
(after peace they will straight up trade horseback riding for either mathematics or monarchy)

Can still run 0% lux after peace with japan, so was no measurable war happyness lost (could drop to 0% lux after carthage buildt settler)

IBT: Cultural border of Lepis Magna grows

550BC, turn 9:

Found Theveste 3 SW of Utica, set to build temple so it can grab the last grass-tile

IBT:

Summeria demands monarchy. They still didnt have mapmaking last turn... so I refuse.. and they back down.

530BC, turn 10:

Spot coast 3 tiles nw of our western exploring curragh.

After we found the horse town, and get a harbor there, we will have a coatal trade route to it though either korean, or celt/japan waters. If we get rid of the fog SE of entremont we can take japan out of the equation for the traderoute.

The save.
 
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