DocT3 Best Start Ever! (Emperor)

[Gyathaar]

Missed the comment in Doc's post about the vet warrior factory. If we lower sci a bit we can easilly rush the barracks and start it immediately. Still 27 turns till iron gets inside cultural limits, and i did not connect the warrior factory city to the road network yet.. we could leave it disconnected and just move the warriors to another city for upgrade.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Rushing the Temple in Leptis wasn't needed IMHO...no need for that town to grow above size 3 now, but we would have badly needed a pure military producer. ANd it will never be able to work more than 3 productive tiles.
Honestly, I'd better had the Barracks rushed. We simply need MP, and a stack of Vet Warriors to upgrade. And Theveste, Temple again? Utica has always one unused grass to share. We need ships...
But I'm sure Greebley will take care of that Temple anyway

Please get us some future Swords, Greebley; in 26 turns we either have to disconnect Leptis, or build another Barracks.

(Sounds a bit too negative Gyathaar, apologies. Well played except for the Templemania )

 

[Gyathaar]

And Theveste, Temple again?

Yeah the temple in theveste was really just because i wasnt really sure what to put it on... really had planned to change it, once I noticed culture growth in Utica would grab the grass tile in a bit over 20 turns anyway (faster than temple in theveste would get it unless rushed).

Please get us some future Swords, Greebley; in 26 turns we either have to disconnect Leptis, or build another Barracks.

I didnt connect it.. and it doesnt have to be connected yet either
Lepis major can go to size 5 with 0% lux with 3 MP and temple without being connected to luxes or iron (work sugar hill, gold hill and normal hill and 2 fresh water).. and can stay that way forever and prodice 1 warrior per 2 turns.

(Had I seen the comment for the warrior factory I would not have rushed the temple there.. reason was I tought the whole reason to build it there instead of 1 ne was to grab 2 extra fresh water, and it could not do that without temple. barracks is due in 9 turns, and we have almost enough gold to rush it this turn.)

Edit:
Had a closer look. Lepis wont be able to build warriors faster than 4 turns untill the worker finish mining the gold hill in 3 turns, and in same turn we will have growth to size 3. Depending on corruption we will then have either 2 or 3 turn warriors (mining a 3rd hill should make it 2 turn ones almost for sure).
So should be no need to rush the rax for another turn (so it finish 1 turn before growth to size 3 in order to let the warrior pick up the extra shields on growth).

Japan will also trade us spices for silks if we want (this must have happened last turn, they could not trade with us earlier)

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

If Leptis gets connected, corruption will go way down; since we may want a few Nummies as well, I would get a road there. Should make something like 8/10spt with 3 mined hills.
And sure, that spot can use lots of lake tiles later, but for now we just need the units.

I'm against trading away our silks for a second lux toToku. We clearly have no happiness problem, and another Lux would help Japan (who seem to have the best starting landmass) much more then us. France or Mayans, maybe. Sumeria, fine. But not Japan.


Over to Greebley.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

It just occured me that I made a pretty stupid move (and Gyathaar obviously didn't dare to ask me about it )...

There is IMHO absolutely no need for a fast tech pace; on the contrary, we benefit when the AI stays ancient.
And, it will be a long time before we will build a Market anyway. So turn down research to minimum, and safe cash for upgrades and an occasional rush. The only reason for the 100% research was me forgetting to adjust it after obtaining MM (which did deserve max science).

Btw, what about a Conquest Victory? A very small number of Nummies/Swords (MDI later)/Archers (to minimize casualties) should be able to take out many Civs with this map; there seems to be a mountain next to most cities
And we are in Monarchy already (don't even think Republic would be better with all our small villages).

 

[Greebley]

Ok, I got it.

I was curious as to how much better moving the settler was than settling in the spot so I tried it out. Moving increases our size by about 50%, ahead in tech) and turns the game into a relatively straightforward Emperor level game. (I had to play the Byzantines to get the correct start making the game even easier on that map).

 

[Gyathaar]

We cant run 100% sci for much longer anyway.. I kept it running since markets would go good in future finish villages, and even with 100% tax we could only pull in around 20gpt

As soon as we build more units we will have to raise tax, since i was pretty much on unit support limit all the time.

As for trading luxes with japan.. I find it likely they will demand it from us in not too many turns if we dont trade it away. They almost certainly will declare if we say no, since they already did once.

Did some experimenting on when the govenor will put the new citizen on a mined mountain on growth.
He will put it on a high shield tile if after doing this the city still makes atleast 2 food per turn. If putting the citizen on a hill/forest/mountain cause city growth to stop growing, starve or produce only 1 food per turn, he wont put it there aslong as there is a tile with more food available.

 

[Greebley]

Preturn: I trade Mathematics for HBR, spice, and a gold to Japan. I don't trade our silks as it is too easy to lose our rep that way. Decide not to lower science until we get currency. Otherwise we are wasting shields. Having a monopoly tech is worth something anyway. Instead I trade HBR around netting us 130 gold (only a bit less than the gold we would get at 10% science).

Arghh! Right after doing the above, I realize that this was contrary to our stated goal of slowing tech. Well done is done and it is too late to take it back. I am off to a stellar start here. I am afraid that trading is too strong an instinct sometimes.

I debate on turning off research or not. We have sunk a lot of shields into it. I decide to keep research high. Not sure if we want the GLib, but if we get currency, we can start min research on lit which gives us 50 turns to get the Glib. 85 seems too long to wait. We don't need the GLib, but it would allow us to run 0 science longer.

I will work on getting some pre-swords.

Early: Build the settler and send it south.

Mid: Land and build horse town.

Late:
Japan does demand silks. Decide to let him have it. Don't want to switch to Military and our chances of losing a trade route is much reduced due to no barbs.
Mausoleum is built. Get Currency in 370 BC and set science to min.
Finish the Barracks and start the first warrior.

Notes:
Carthage is going for an aquaduct. This can be changed.

Waffled between building something long term and a barracks in Thiveste. Left it on barracks since we mentioned going the military route. Do we want the GLib? Thiveste might be a good location for it.
Hippo is building a worker, but needs a harbor and defense too.

Leptis is MM'ed to 5 shields to get as many warriors as it can in the 8 more turns. If we want more than 8 vet warriors, then stop the workers completing the road in the mountains. That is 480 gold in upgrades We should discuss this.

Give in to all demands from the Celts or you ruin our rep.

 

[Greebley]

Here is a map:
The settler is heading to the deer but you can choose a closer spot.

 

[romeothemonk]

Got it. Ill play quick and then be out of town for a few days.

 

[romeothemonk]

IHT: Rush harbor in Hippo. MM to get 1 more gpt.
Turn 1: Hippo: Harbor to warrior.
Turn 2: Build Leptis Minor on the closest Red dot availible. Leptis magna is roaded, it is now a 2 turn warrior factory.
turn 3: Leptis major: warrior to warrior. Workers improving hills near Theveste and Utica.
IBT: Mayans build the ToA, French build the great wall, others cascade to the hanging gardens.
Turn 4: Utica gets a taxman for 3 turns, Hippo gets a numidian rushed. The reg warrior from Leptis Magna goes to Carthage.
Turn 5: Now I am saving every ounce of gold for upgrades. One galley tries a semi-suicidial rush. Sumerians start The great lighthouse.
Turn 6: I swap the duct in Carthage for a market. (Still due in 21).
Turn 7: Utica builds a settler, starts on Market. (prebuild?) it can be changed very easily. The French and Maya share a nice big continent.
Turn 8: moving the new settler to near the last red dot.
Turn 9: A celt galley nears Hippo (Horses). We now have 4 vet warriors. There is a very nice landmass below the Mayans.
Turn 10: Galleys explore the French an Mayan lands. Celts land a settler archer combo near hippo.

We have no galleys near our home but can make a few, or wait ~14 for some return trips. I think we are in very good shape right now.

 

[Gyathaar]

Korea, japan, maya and france knows CoL

maya and france knows literature aswell

korea and japan is down currency and monarchy
maya and france is down currency


So we can easilly get into middle ages if we want to, or should atleast start prebuild for GLib if we want to build that ourself...

 

[romeothemonk]

Utica can be our Glib. It can be easily switched over. Also just trading an middlemanning is a really easy way to get us going. I would say that we really don't need the Glib here. I have been in far too many games where the glib is the only strat.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

I'm against the GLib as well. Those 300sp are simply not worth it for us.

 

[Gyathaar]

I agree on [not building] GLib.. I never build it myself except when going for culture victories (or sid I guess)

Since literature is already out there there isnt much need to keep running the minimum research on it thou (39 turns remaining)

 

[romeothemonk]

I think a lot of libraries and markets will be key for us, as well as a little judicious war-mongering.

 

[Gyathaar]

What kind of victory do we want in this game?
Except from possibly 20k victory all types of wins should be possible (a 20k victory would come very late if stilll possible)

(thou I dont want to do histograph after doing that in COTM4 and now working on that in COTM5 )

 

[Bigfoot]

Got it. I just scanned the thread this morning (RL conflicts). Once we have iron available it looks like we can dispatch the Celts, Koreans and Sumeria pretty easily. I would favor going for a Conquest win here.

 

[Greebley]

Totally agree we do not need the GLib.

I am ok with a conquest/domination victory. (domination if there is a size 1 island we do not own).

I agree with going ahead and prepping for war with another civ if you think we are ready to.

 

[Bigfoot]

Status check (150 BC)

- We have 6 cities and 1 settler en route.
- 291G and make +22gpt; Lit. due in 39 (science at minimum).
- 5 workers, 5 Was., 2 galleys, 1 NM, 1 curragh, 1 settler.
- Contacts with all civs now; France and Maya are up COL and Lit, but down Currency. Japan is up COL and down Currency and Monarchy, they also have 148G and horses and iron hooked up. Korea is up COL but down Currency and Monarchy; they also have horses and iron. Celts, Sumer. and Otto. are far behind on techs.

Goal for these turns is to accumulate gold and try to keep the tech. pace slow.

<Hit enter: Leptis Magna builds Wa., starts another; Hanging Gdns. is built in Lagash (Sumer.); we lose spices.>

Turn 1 (130 BC)
- Worker pair move to mine other hill by Utica.
- Settler continues towards deer spot.
- Lux. to 10% to prevent riots; gpt drops to +18.
<IBT: Leptis Minor Wk.->Harbor; Maya and French are building GL.>

Turn 2 (110 BC)
- Wk. starts chop near Leptis Minor.
<IBT: horses are connected now; Leptis Magna Wa. -> Wa.; Maya builds Gr. Lighthouse.>

Turn 3 (90 BC)
- zzz (Lots of trade opportunities, we pass for now.)
<IBT: Theveste rax-> NM>

Turn 4 (70 BC)
- Send 2 Was. to Carthage for MP; hire a scientist there for now and drop science to zero (should have done this earlier).

Turn 5 (50 BC)
- Trade HBR to Sumer. for Dyes and 23G (a little bit light but we need the lux.).
<IBT: Our borders expand, we now have iron.>

Turn 6 (30 BC)
- Establish Sabratha on the red dot by the deer, starts worker.
- Celts learn HBR now (but they still have 19G, looks like they researched it themselves).

Turns 7 and 8 zzz

Turn 9 (30 AD)
- Korea knows Monarchy now, we are still up Currency.
- France knows Currency and is now in the MA.
- Trade with Maya: Currency for COL, Lit. and 3G.
- Trade with Japan: Currency for 230G and spices.
- Trade with Celts: Lit. for 21G.
- Trade with Sumer.: Lit. for 13G.
- Trade with Otto.: Writing for 28G.
- Mayas know Republic as well.
- Set research to Feudalism at minimum.
<IBT: Sumer. is building GL.>

Turn 10 (50 AD) zzz

I tired to hold off making trades to keep down the tech. pace, but once France learned Currency I opted to trade it around to get the exisiting value from that tech. before they did. Although we have iron, none of our galleys are in position yet, so I did not do any Wa. upgrades. We now have 829G and make 28gpt, so we should be able to do all upgrades and any needed rush jobs to begin military actions. The Celts have some nice looking furs nearby, maybe that would be a good starting point.