DOCTRINE: Simulationism

[Kentharu]

Mods should let the player do what he wants. He just has to make the consequences of those actions absolutely clear. Das did it in his NES's.

 

[Amon Savag]

I can agree with that, kentharu. But there are some examples of complete mod-block, and micromanagement of even player-countries by mods. This can't be called progress in regards to a "never ending story".

 

[North King]

There's no need for players in a NES that's overly regulated by the mod.

We're not even close to that point. You also ignore numerous rule changes which are making it far more fun to play than a simple "increase economy, charge at the enemy" game.

 

[Amon Savag]

NES is as complicated as the PLAYER makes it. Not as complicated as the mod allows it to be. Mods have generally been leniant towards players who make good arguments through story for exceptions to be made in rules. I can point to many different examples of this through my own history of NESing. And having more rules don't make it more fun, imo. Having more freedom to bend the rules based on circumstance is more fun imo.

 

[North King]

NES is as complicated as the PLAYER makes it. Not as complicated as the mod allows it to be.

Huh? The mod enforces the rules.

Mods have generally been leniant towards players who make good arguments through story for exceptions to be made in rules.

They still do that today. It's only our extreme Simulationist wing who disagrees.

And having more rules don't make it more fun, imo. Having more freedom to bend the rules based on circumstance is more fun imo.

How about the fact that there are fewer rules in my NES than there were in stJNES5? Oh wait, I forgot, that interrupts our narrative of the supposedly ongoing increase in complexity. Rules aren't getting more numerous, they are getting better.

 

[Symphony D.]

Retroactive deletion.

 

[North King]

I'll take that as an oblique compliment.

It was partly a compliment to you, yes.

 

[Matt0088]

I don't know why any of you pointlessly agrue with each other. You all have your stubbern opinions that no amount of debating can change, Symphony's bout with Luckymoose in while we wait is a prime example. But to follow Symphony's last post, do you have a planned set date for when you reopen SymNESIIa or open SymNESIIb?

 

[jalapeno_dude]

in the end it becomes the mod's story and not the players' story that's being told

Of course it does! The mod is the one who's sinking vast amounts of their time into running a NES. Playing in a NES is absolutely a privilege, not a right. The Mod can do whatever they want (with the obvious constraint that they'll have no players if they make stupid choices). I've always approached NESing this way--my orders are suggestions to the mod on how I think the story should go, and they're always subservient to the mod's vision. The mod is writing a really neat story, and if we're lucky (and interested in what the mod is running) we get to participate in it.

...that's my view, at least. Another reason arguing about this is ultimately fruitless.

 

[Kentharu]

Symphony you take my words out fo context. If you provide clear consequences for players actions then they won't deviate to absurdity. For example:

Take America. If a player were to control a modern America in a NES and they, lets say, wanted to invade France (absurd yes). You as a mod would simply stop them THROUGH elements within the person's nation. In this case the Mod, acting as the congress would simply not allow the executive branch to go to war. Through elements within nation's governments, such as congress, or judicial branches, or even open rebelion, one can accurately simulate a world will still allowing the NESer to retain quite a bit of freedom.

 

[Amon Savag]

Ugh....

Symphony, when I said imo, I meant imo. I was talking in reference to north king's OPPINION that he said rules have gotten "better" and therefore "more fun". It was my oppinion in reference to his oppinion. That was mine and North King's discussion. I don't understand why you'd go blabbing off about that.

For you to take North King's comment that things are progressing as a compliment is extremely stupid. In these 6 and a half years, the only reason we've improved is because of the great and all mighty D.

In regards to my comment about over-mod regulation, I wasn't talking about NESes or boardgames(That you referenced, as if we're even talking about battleship, or risk.). I was referencing those NESes which have rules, and then IMPLIED rules, such as "realism". NESes that don't necessarilly have rules barring actions, but the mod bars actions. That's what my comment was about. Thanks for reading the whole of the conversation before opening your big loud mouth.

 

[North King]

For you to take North King's comment that things are progressing as a compliment is extremely stupid. In these 6 and a half years, the only reason we've improved is because of the great and all mighty D.

I was referring to the maps, where the current one is largely due to Symphony.

 

[Amon Savag]

Give me a break. Like a new map revolutionised the way we NES.

 

[Crezth]

Give me a break. Like a new map revolutionised the way we NES.

To be fair, it's a nice map.

 

[Symphony D.]

Retroactive deletion.

 

[Amon Savag]

Oh, and thanks for making 0 points in your last post, but referencing me plenty. I thought we were trying to stay on-topic. Oh, perhaps everyone except you, when you're trying to make someone look dumb, is supposed to stay on topic.

We were doing fine before you showed up, and we'll do fine after you leave.

 

[Symphony D.]

Retroactive deletion.

 

[Kentharu]

And those instances of stupidity did not happen under said ruleset.

Please elaborate on why it is a bad idea instead of disagreeing for the sake of disagreement.

 

[North King]

Give me a break. Like a new map revolutionised the way we NES.

It was an example?

 

[Symphony D.]

Retroactive deletion.