fireforge
Chieftain
Ill post my saves you tell me what im doing wrong.
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Does anyone mind mentoring me for a bit??
- Thread starter fireforge
- Start date
fireforge
Chieftain
any comments thus far?
fireforge
Chieftain
I think this is were I kinda get confused on what to do is my placement that bad what do I build??? help help here would be great.
fireforge
Chieftain
post number 4
TruePurple
Civ wanna B
- Joined
- May 18, 2005
- Messages
- 1,367
Might help if you told people what your settings were on this game and whether your using conquest ptw or plain civ3
namliaM
Deity
The best way to learn stuff is to take action yourself, read some GOTM threads.
Same for SGOTM and/or Succession games.
Also read the articles on the main site in the war academy ... and for peets sake stop spamming your saves.... Unless you have more specific questions.
Same for SGOTM and/or Succession games.
Also read the articles on the main site in the war academy ... and for peets sake stop spamming your saves.... Unless you have more specific questions.
They are Conquest saves. I will take a look at them in a bit and make comments.
madviking
north american scum
you know, you don't have to post 4 saves in four posts.
bingen
Prince
Regarding 1.save:
This is an excellent start. However, it needs to be correctly setup. I recommend Bamspeedy's Deity Settlers from the War Academy.
1. More explorers, build 2-3 warriors initially, not just 1. Early granary was a good move.
2. Irrigate 1 wheat only, mine the second unless you eant to share it with another city. You have enough food, you need to setup your city to produce 30 shields in 4 turns.
3. Masonry at high science is a poor initial choice. Either startt a cheap tech at high science or an expensive one at min science. I would start with writing at 20%(or whatever is enough to get 1 beaker)
4. You are not working the best tiles. Use your wheat tiles. Contol happiness with the luxury slider.
If you are not able to get a settler every 4 turns in your capital you are not making the most of this start.
This is an excellent start. However, it needs to be correctly setup. I recommend Bamspeedy's Deity Settlers from the War Academy.
1. More explorers, build 2-3 warriors initially, not just 1. Early granary was a good move.
2. Irrigate 1 wheat only, mine the second unless you eant to share it with another city. You have enough food, you need to setup your city to produce 30 shields in 4 turns.
3. Masonry at high science is a poor initial choice. Either startt a cheap tech at high science or an expensive one at min science. I would start with writing at 20%(or whatever is enough to get 1 beaker)
4. You are not working the best tiles. Use your wheat tiles. Contol happiness with the luxury slider.
If you are not able to get a settler every 4 turns in your capital you are not making the most of this start.
Ok, you are playing Regent. Everyone is equal...supposedly, but the human still has their advantage.
Here's my comments, starting with save 1, 2340 BC:
You have enough food and shields to make a settler factory and worker factory! It is nice to see you have a granary this early. Here's how to set up Salamanca as a 4-turn settler factory at size 4 and 5.
Size 4: Work the wheat on the river, and mined bonus grasslands S, SSW, and WSW of Salamanca. You earn 5 food per turn (need 10 to grow) and 7 shields per turn (need 30 for a settler).
Size 4: Work the same tiles. In the inter turn you'll grow and get moved to the forest right away and get 2 shields from there. (currently 14/30 shields for settler during interturn).
Size 5: Earned 2 shields from the forest on growth. Work another mined grassland or bonus grassland, whatever one is more improved. (8 shields per turn, now at 24/30).
Size 5: In the interturn, you'll grow to size 6, produce a settler, so drop to size 4, and start the cycle all over again.
Here's the worker factory, if you want it, using the other wheat. Found a city NNE of Salamanca, and have it build a granary. Here are the tiles to work at size 3:
Size 3: Work the wheat, game tile on forest, and a mined bonus grassland on the river (this nets you 5 food per turn out of 10, and 5 shields out of 10 for a worker).
Size 3: Work the same tiles. In the interturn, you grow to size 4, produce a worker, so drop to size 3, and start the cycle once more.
As you can see, food is power, and used right, it can get you a big advantage. You have lots of land to claim. Onto save 2.
Save 2, 1575 BC:
Your city spacing is too far apart, first. Cities should be 3-4 tiles apart (ie; Niagara Falls should've been 2NE. It would gain 2 more bonus grasslands, and still be able to work a cow with a culture expansion. Allegheny is building a settler, but will build it at size 2 (on growth). However, settlers take 2 population when completed, so it has to be at size 3. For now, build couple warriors to explore.
Salamanca is using a clown! Bad move! This means it has a useless citizen that can't produce food, commerce, or shields. Press F1, or the Domestic Screen. See the two sliders (above "Despotism", your government)? Move the bottom one up to 10%, and move the entertainer to a wheat tile for more growth. By doing this, you can 2 commerce and shave 4 turns off the tech research time.
Cattaraugus should probably produce a worker, to improve the wheat and road forests, as you need lots of workers in this game (2 per city is ideal). Having each new city build a settler isn't that smart. Irrigating grassland in Despotism isn't good either. Despotism has a 'tile penalty' meaning that any tile that produces 3 or more of anything gets reduced by one. Grassland produces 2 food. Irrigation adds 1, so 3 now. But Despotism takes 1 away, so it's at 2, back where we started. Unless it's a food bonus on grassland, mine grassland in Despotism. A rule of thumb is mine green (grassland), irrigation brown (plains + desert).
I see you made contact with the Maya - good! Every turn or two, go to the F4 Foreign Advisor screen and check out if they've founded new cities or have new techs to trade.
Onto save 3, 1200 BC.
Once again, you going to complete a settler at size 2 this time in Niagara Falls, but it has to be size 3 or more! It should've build a granary and become a worker factory, using the two cows. Allegheny also has this problem...
Using the luxury slider can turn Salamanca into a settler factory right now, by mining one more bonus grassland.
Mauch Chunk was founded in a pretty bad location - it will grow in 18 turns! It should've been 2S, and Oil Springs 2SW. Cattaraugus is using an entertainer - use the luxury slider instead!
Tonawanda should've built two warriors instead of one spearman right now. That means you can make 1 more unhappy citizen content. Spears are pretty useless - in Civ3, you really only need offense. No AI will rush you this early, especially on Regent. Wariors will do. You also desprately need more workers. Oil Springs should've build a worker to hook up the silks S of the city (they would make 1 citizen in every city connected to it happy).
Onto save 4, 730 BC:
Tyendenaga was founded by Dyes, a luxury to keep people happy, nice. But it's producing a worker, which take up 1 population point. The town should've built a warrior, then worker to time growth with the worker build, as right now it'll waste five turns of production.
I see you finally used the luxury slider for Salamanca, nice. Here's a prime time for micromanagement. Go into Salamanca. See how it only needs 1 food and 8 shields to finish the settler and grow? Switch the citizen from the bonus grassland tile with no road and no river to the tile 2SW of Salamanca by clicking on the icon and clicking on the new tile. Do the same for the tile 1NE of Salamanca - move it 1SW of Salamanca. You saved 1 gold per turn (gpt) and 1 turn of research. Don't be afraid to use research if you lose money (@80%, you can get Philosophy in 8 turns after micromanagement, and only lose 2 gold per turn. Gold in Despotism does nothing, except for trading...)
Speaking of trading, keep on eye on the new civs you met to see if there are any trading opportunities.
See those horses by Tonawanda? Connect them with a road and build a temple in Oil Springs to expand your culture and get them in your territory. Then you can build your Unique Unit (UU), the Mounted Warrior (3 attack, 1 defense, 2 move). This unit is only available to you, and requires horses. It will spark a golden age (each tile producing at least a shield produces 1 extra, and each tile producing at least a commerce will produce 1 extra) when it wins a battle. You can use this in combination with Barracks (a city improvement that makes all units have one more hit point (the bar next to it), which makes it last longer and be more effective. Use this to conquer your enemies!
Instead of building the Pyramids in New York, you are better off to build 13 mounted warriors to go and conquer it - this early in the game it is a waste of shields when you can build settlers and workers.
Overall, you have a lot to learn but you are on your way to becoming better! If you have any more questions, feel free to ask.
Here's my comments, starting with save 1, 2340 BC:
You have enough food and shields to make a settler factory and worker factory! It is nice to see you have a granary this early. Here's how to set up Salamanca as a 4-turn settler factory at size 4 and 5.
Size 4: Work the wheat on the river, and mined bonus grasslands S, SSW, and WSW of Salamanca. You earn 5 food per turn (need 10 to grow) and 7 shields per turn (need 30 for a settler).
Size 4: Work the same tiles. In the inter turn you'll grow and get moved to the forest right away and get 2 shields from there. (currently 14/30 shields for settler during interturn).
Size 5: Earned 2 shields from the forest on growth. Work another mined grassland or bonus grassland, whatever one is more improved. (8 shields per turn, now at 24/30).
Size 5: In the interturn, you'll grow to size 6, produce a settler, so drop to size 4, and start the cycle all over again.
Here's the worker factory, if you want it, using the other wheat. Found a city NNE of Salamanca, and have it build a granary. Here are the tiles to work at size 3:
Size 3: Work the wheat, game tile on forest, and a mined bonus grassland on the river (this nets you 5 food per turn out of 10, and 5 shields out of 10 for a worker).
Size 3: Work the same tiles. In the interturn, you grow to size 4, produce a worker, so drop to size 3, and start the cycle once more.
As you can see, food is power, and used right, it can get you a big advantage. You have lots of land to claim. Onto save 2.
Save 2, 1575 BC:
Your city spacing is too far apart, first. Cities should be 3-4 tiles apart (ie; Niagara Falls should've been 2NE. It would gain 2 more bonus grasslands, and still be able to work a cow with a culture expansion. Allegheny is building a settler, but will build it at size 2 (on growth). However, settlers take 2 population when completed, so it has to be at size 3. For now, build couple warriors to explore.
Salamanca is using a clown! Bad move! This means it has a useless citizen that can't produce food, commerce, or shields. Press F1, or the Domestic Screen. See the two sliders (above "Despotism", your government)? Move the bottom one up to 10%, and move the entertainer to a wheat tile for more growth. By doing this, you can 2 commerce and shave 4 turns off the tech research time.
Cattaraugus should probably produce a worker, to improve the wheat and road forests, as you need lots of workers in this game (2 per city is ideal). Having each new city build a settler isn't that smart. Irrigating grassland in Despotism isn't good either. Despotism has a 'tile penalty' meaning that any tile that produces 3 or more of anything gets reduced by one. Grassland produces 2 food. Irrigation adds 1, so 3 now. But Despotism takes 1 away, so it's at 2, back where we started. Unless it's a food bonus on grassland, mine grassland in Despotism. A rule of thumb is mine green (grassland), irrigation brown (plains + desert).
I see you made contact with the Maya - good! Every turn or two, go to the F4 Foreign Advisor screen and check out if they've founded new cities or have new techs to trade.
Onto save 3, 1200 BC.
Once again, you going to complete a settler at size 2 this time in Niagara Falls, but it has to be size 3 or more! It should've build a granary and become a worker factory, using the two cows. Allegheny also has this problem...
Using the luxury slider can turn Salamanca into a settler factory right now, by mining one more bonus grassland.
Mauch Chunk was founded in a pretty bad location - it will grow in 18 turns! It should've been 2S, and Oil Springs 2SW. Cattaraugus is using an entertainer - use the luxury slider instead!
Tonawanda should've built two warriors instead of one spearman right now. That means you can make 1 more unhappy citizen content. Spears are pretty useless - in Civ3, you really only need offense. No AI will rush you this early, especially on Regent. Wariors will do. You also desprately need more workers. Oil Springs should've build a worker to hook up the silks S of the city (they would make 1 citizen in every city connected to it happy).
Onto save 4, 730 BC:
Tyendenaga was founded by Dyes, a luxury to keep people happy, nice. But it's producing a worker, which take up 1 population point. The town should've built a warrior, then worker to time growth with the worker build, as right now it'll waste five turns of production.
I see you finally used the luxury slider for Salamanca, nice. Here's a prime time for micromanagement. Go into Salamanca. See how it only needs 1 food and 8 shields to finish the settler and grow? Switch the citizen from the bonus grassland tile with no road and no river to the tile 2SW of Salamanca by clicking on the icon and clicking on the new tile. Do the same for the tile 1NE of Salamanca - move it 1SW of Salamanca. You saved 1 gold per turn (gpt) and 1 turn of research. Don't be afraid to use research if you lose money (@80%, you can get Philosophy in 8 turns after micromanagement, and only lose 2 gold per turn. Gold in Despotism does nothing, except for trading...)
Speaking of trading, keep on eye on the new civs you met to see if there are any trading opportunities.
See those horses by Tonawanda? Connect them with a road and build a temple in Oil Springs to expand your culture and get them in your territory. Then you can build your Unique Unit (UU), the Mounted Warrior (3 attack, 1 defense, 2 move). This unit is only available to you, and requires horses. It will spark a golden age (each tile producing at least a shield produces 1 extra, and each tile producing at least a commerce will produce 1 extra) when it wins a battle. You can use this in combination with Barracks (a city improvement that makes all units have one more hit point (the bar next to it), which makes it last longer and be more effective. Use this to conquer your enemies!
Instead of building the Pyramids in New York, you are better off to build 13 mounted warriors to go and conquer it - this early in the game it is a waste of shields when you can build settlers and workers.
Overall, you have a lot to learn but you are on your way to becoming better! If you have any more questions, feel free to ask.
bingen
Prince
Regarding last (fourth) save.
Seems like you are winning.
How big is this map, there seems to be a lot of room? I personally find smaller maps to be more exciting.
1. Land around capital is underdeveloped (needs more mines). It should be able to produce a settler every 4 turns. The initial worker should have made sure of this before moving away.
2. You have a number of workers, but with this terrain you need very many. I advise changing the Pyramids in Niagara falls to a granary. Excersise; make Niagara falls able to produce a new worker every 2 turns to provide the workers you need.
EDIT: I would also change the build orders in your two coastal cities to curraughs and then send one exploring each way. Meeting other civs is a great boon.
3. Building roads on jungle/marsh/forests takes a lot of turns, try to clear the terrain first then build the road to save total turns spent working. Tiles with luxury can be exceptions though.
4. To fully use the bonus from getting to philosophy first you should research code of laws before philosophy (to get free Republic). Somebody might beat you to philosophy though, this is why you should have gone for writing immediately.
As I mentioned in my previous post, read the first pages of Bamspeedy's article http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3acad_deity_settlers.shtml
After the game is finished, restart or find a similar map, notice how much faster you expand with a properly set up 4 -turn settler factory.
Other articles in the war academy are also good.
Seems like you are winning.
How big is this map, there seems to be a lot of room? I personally find smaller maps to be more exciting.
1. Land around capital is underdeveloped (needs more mines). It should be able to produce a settler every 4 turns. The initial worker should have made sure of this before moving away.
2. You have a number of workers, but with this terrain you need very many. I advise changing the Pyramids in Niagara falls to a granary. Excersise; make Niagara falls able to produce a new worker every 2 turns to provide the workers you need.
EDIT: I would also change the build orders in your two coastal cities to curraughs and then send one exploring each way. Meeting other civs is a great boon.
3. Building roads on jungle/marsh/forests takes a lot of turns, try to clear the terrain first then build the road to save total turns spent working. Tiles with luxury can be exceptions though.
4. To fully use the bonus from getting to philosophy first you should research code of laws before philosophy (to get free Republic). Somebody might beat you to philosophy though, this is why you should have gone for writing immediately.
As I mentioned in my previous post, read the first pages of Bamspeedy's article http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3acad_deity_settlers.shtml
After the game is finished, restart or find a similar map, notice how much faster you expand with a properly set up 4 -turn settler factory.
Other articles in the war academy are also good.
fireforge
Chieftain
I can post were im at now in this current game if anyone wants to see.
Of course, please do.
fireforge
Chieftain
dont be to harsh
madviking
north american scum
couple of things-
1. build ToZ!!
2. not enough units to protect cities
3. i've never seen someone go through the whole iroquois city name list!!!
4.build embasseys, they help alot.
1. build ToZ!!
2. not enough units to protect cities
3. i've never seen someone go through the whole iroquois city name list!!!
4.build embasseys, they help alot.
bingen
Prince
Not looking too bad, I'd say you are still winning.
1. Get some boats to find the remaining civs. This is most important.
2. If you get the great library then you do not need research. Since noone else is building it I would assume that you get it. Stop research after getting polytheism (since you almost have it). This willallow you more troops
3. Good job of building workers, but with this terrain focus on getting many more quickly. Cities get more productive and will grow quicker through worker actions, this will easily pay for the workers in the long run.
4. Your economy is being slightly choked by unneeded units, no military police in Republic so interior cities do not need any garrisons at all. Upgrade some warriors to swordsmen in case the AI tries anything, disband the rest. Alternatively upgrade them all and go to war with them, although this would be a lot better if they were veterans.
5. Good job getting the Statue of Zeus, but Salamanca really should have been given a barracks for the Ancient Cavalry.
6. The Forbidden Palace should in general be built as fast as possible in a very productive city (the Palace can always be moved later if needed). Get 3 or more workers to turbo-improve the terrain close to kawauka (irrigate desert, mine the rest).
7. Once you get a decent number of Ancient Cavalry, reenforce them with mounted warriors and start taking out the AI. The maya are probably were ease to kill as most of their cities are stuck in the jungle, however their UU will trigger a golden age for them and the jungles will hamper your mounted force. Alternatively free your back by taking out the mongols.
EDIT: I disagree with madviking, some ebassies might be good though.
1. Get some boats to find the remaining civs. This is most important.
2. If you get the great library then you do not need research. Since noone else is building it I would assume that you get it. Stop research after getting polytheism (since you almost have it). This willallow you more troops
3. Good job of building workers, but with this terrain focus on getting many more quickly. Cities get more productive and will grow quicker through worker actions, this will easily pay for the workers in the long run.
4. Your economy is being slightly choked by unneeded units, no military police in Republic so interior cities do not need any garrisons at all. Upgrade some warriors to swordsmen in case the AI tries anything, disband the rest. Alternatively upgrade them all and go to war with them, although this would be a lot better if they were veterans.
5. Good job getting the Statue of Zeus, but Salamanca really should have been given a barracks for the Ancient Cavalry.
6. The Forbidden Palace should in general be built as fast as possible in a very productive city (the Palace can always be moved later if needed). Get 3 or more workers to turbo-improve the terrain close to kawauka (irrigate desert, mine the rest).
7. Once you get a decent number of Ancient Cavalry, reenforce them with mounted warriors and start taking out the AI. The maya are probably were ease to kill as most of their cities are stuck in the jungle, however their UU will trigger a golden age for them and the jungles will hamper your mounted force. Alternatively free your back by taking out the mongols.
EDIT: I disagree with madviking, some ebassies might be good though.
bingen
Prince
madviking said:
1.Temple of Artemis? If so this is not needed. Statue of Zeus he already has.
2. No, but the army should preferably be more mobile. I have changed my mind about disbanding though. Use the gold gained from turning off research to upgrade all the warriors. Attack either the Dutch or the Maya and buy the other in to help. The Dutch are going to be a pain once they get their UU so perhaps it is best to take them out first.
4. Yes.
fireforge
Chieftain
What in the hell is a UU?? Thanks for the info
madviking
north american scum
a Unique Unit
for example: iro's is the Mounted Warrior
for example: iro's is the Mounted Warrior
fireforge I started to go through the last save you posted, but I started to pull my hair out and just do not have enough to risk it.
First I would not suggest anyone play with so few civs on their map, until they are very knowledgable. Not because you need to have some skill, but rather you won't learn much from such an easy game.
Alway use std number of civs for a more normal experience.
Anyway, I see lots of clowns so you may as well up the luxs and put them to work. If need to have some markets in large cities to keep the pop happy.
A number of pop can be moved to beter tiles.
In 450AD or there abouts, you need to strong or at least average compared to the other civs, not weak.
You have a number of empty towns near the border and are begging for the AI to help themselves and they have an archer that looks to be contemplating just that.
26 warrirors, 6 spears and ONE MW? Wow I never made 26 warriors in any game that I can recall.
You must not make troops without a barracks at this juncture. Get those troops upgraded, but you only have one barracks as near as I can tell.
I dislike many of the builds, Kiohem making a courthouse at size 3 and no structures. I would rather get a lib or a temple or market or just make workers there. I do not put CH in small towns until late in the game when I have cash to burn.
Couple of towns size 4 and 6 making granaries and they will not grow past size 6 as they have no aqua or rivers. So why waste shields on granaries?
Salamanca: a river tiel with bonus grassland and not even roaded, let alone used. Wheat was not irrigated, too late now.
Workers are doing useless task in this city. One mining a tile that will not be needed till hospitals. Another chops a forest and the shields cannot go to a wonder.
Alleghany has a game on forest and it is not used and has no road. Chops some of those forest to rush a build.
Archer being built in a size one town with no barracks.
I am sure many other cities are in similar shape.
I do not care for building towns out far from my empire, even to grab a resource or a lux. I do not want gaps in my empire. I will get that spot later.
Better that I can manage and defend what I have than risk probelms and have to build even more units to protect those small towns.
First I would not suggest anyone play with so few civs on their map, until they are very knowledgable. Not because you need to have some skill, but rather you won't learn much from such an easy game.
Alway use std number of civs for a more normal experience.
Anyway, I see lots of clowns so you may as well up the luxs and put them to work. If need to have some markets in large cities to keep the pop happy.
A number of pop can be moved to beter tiles.
In 450AD or there abouts, you need to strong or at least average compared to the other civs, not weak.
You have a number of empty towns near the border and are begging for the AI to help themselves and they have an archer that looks to be contemplating just that.
26 warrirors, 6 spears and ONE MW? Wow I never made 26 warriors in any game that I can recall.
You must not make troops without a barracks at this juncture. Get those troops upgraded, but you only have one barracks as near as I can tell.
I dislike many of the builds, Kiohem making a courthouse at size 3 and no structures. I would rather get a lib or a temple or market or just make workers there. I do not put CH in small towns until late in the game when I have cash to burn.
Couple of towns size 4 and 6 making granaries and they will not grow past size 6 as they have no aqua or rivers. So why waste shields on granaries?
Salamanca: a river tiel with bonus grassland and not even roaded, let alone used. Wheat was not irrigated, too late now.
Workers are doing useless task in this city. One mining a tile that will not be needed till hospitals. Another chops a forest and the shields cannot go to a wonder.
Alleghany has a game on forest and it is not used and has no road. Chops some of those forest to rush a build.
Archer being built in a size one town with no barracks.
I am sure many other cities are in similar shape.
I do not care for building towns out far from my empire, even to grab a resource or a lux. I do not want gaps in my empire. I will get that spot later.
Better that I can manage and defend what I have than risk probelms and have to build even more units to protect those small towns.
