Does Canada have free speach?

[Evie]

What about a cartoon that criticises, but some take offence?

If it actually criticizes something, fine. If it perpetuates clichés (ie, Islam = Suicide Bomber) and doesn't actually do any real criticizing? Then it's not criticism in any meaningful sense of the word.

Real criticism is constructive, not destructive.

And if you don't care, by default they should be legal - the question is why should people be punished for publishing a cartoon.

I agree, by default it should be legal. The question here is, is this a default situation, or are there circumstances that warrant it being treated as a special, non-default case?

I don't know, personally.

This ought not be hate speech - it is not intended to intimidate or incite violence. Telling people to go and kill a load of muslims is hate speech. Criticising or mocking people's beliefs is _not_ hate speech in any sense of the word (or it shouldn't be).

Cartoons that perpetuate old clichés about muslims, particularly the clichés that are most offensive to a western audience, and present them as universal facts of Islam (rather than something that apply to some practicioners of the religion) are a gray area as far as I'm concerned - hence why the court should take a good, hard look at them.

And we have this thread to decide whether certain laws are an arse or not.

No, we have this thread (like pretty much every other thread on this forum) so that the members of this forums can feel important by making empty, often ill-informed rants generally based on one ideology they feel should be raised as an absolute over all of mankind, whose impact will be to either to

a)get the posters who'd have agreed with them anyway to posts what ammounts to "Me too!" posts,
or
b)get the posters who wouldn't have agreed anyway to roll their eyes and make posts that amount to "Such a jerkface" posts.

In blunter term, we have this thread so we have something to waste our spare time on. It's what CFC-OT is all about, after all

 

[skadistic]

Actually we have this thread because I spent the last 3 days reading about it and was astonished that despite it being written in the Canada bill of rights that speech is a fundamental right that they then turn around and take that right away in surprizing numbers because some one had their feelings hurt. And wanted to hear what others thought about it.








And to waste time

 

[Evie]

Well, to point out, the charter does start with :

1. The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.

Now whether or not the laws in questions can be demonstrably justified (in the eyes of the courts, who are in charge of ruling on such matters) is an open question, but the charter does have a provision for "You have these rights, but we have the right to limit you from using them to screw with society."

(What? I have time to waste, too!)

 

[mdwh]

If it actually criticizes something, fine. If it perpetuates clichés (ie, Islam = Suicide Bomber) and doesn't actually do any real criticizing? Then it's not criticism in any meaningful sense of the word.

So you'd kiss goodbye to a large amount of parody and stereotyping? The likes of the Simpsons and South Park should be criminalised?

For that matter, you'd criminalise the Islam/terrorism threads here on CivFanatics? I dislike misrepresenting all or even most muslims as terrorists and will strongly object; but I don't think such claims should be criminalised, and also, it is valid to point out links between some muslims and terrorism.

Cartoons that perpetuate old clichés about muslims, particularly the clichés that are most offensive to a western audience, and present them as universal facts of Islam (rather than something that apply to some practicioners of the religion) are a gray area as far as I'm concerned - hence why the court should take a good, hard look at them.

I'm glad CivFanatics' servers aren't hosted in Canada, then.

No, we have this thread (like pretty much every other thread on this forum) so that the members of this forums can feel important by making empty, often ill-informed rants generally based on one ideology they feel should be raised as an absolute over all of mankind, whose impact will be to either to

Speak for yourself. If you don't like it, don't come here. If you don't like cartoons about muslims, don't look at them.

 

[mdwh]

Well said. I agree these guys have every right to publish the cartoon, but their reason for doing so is centred in rabble rousing, so they ought to not expecting me to leap to their cause.

But do you say the same of every other satire/parody/stereotyping that pokes fun at people, out of interest? Or do muslims/religious people get special treatment?

Of course, I recall the guy who got sacked from his job for saying that the Americans deserved 9-11 and lost his case in court, I don't recall the BNP... erm... I mean Free Dominion crying foul against freedom of speech in that case. (Neither did I, he deserved it.)

Linky?

 

[Leonel]

Thankfully these cartoons seems to be legal in the UK. However:

However, the "Jesus is a ____" t-shirts seem to be illegal to sell and to wear, under various religious laws we still have:

http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=1780422007 - "selling obscene material aggravated by religious prejudice"

http://www.mediawatchwatch.org.uk/?p=265 - "religiously aggravated offensive conduct".

We may finally be about to get rid of our blasphemy law ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7178439.stm ), but there's been no mention of these other laws.

Well I saw Jesus crapping bloody easter eggs on the Stranger. It's a newspaper in the Pacific Northwest here.

 

[Evie]

So you'd kiss goodbye to a large amount of parody and stereotyping? The likes of the Simpsons and South Park should be criminalised?

For that matter, you'd criminalise the Islam/terrorism threads here on CivFanatics? I dislike misrepresenting all or even most muslims as terrorists and will strongly object; but I don't think such claims should be criminalised, and also, it is valid to point out links between some muslims and terrorism.

You know, you could also try to not grossly misrerepsent my post.

I didn't say parody and stereotyping should be criminalized. At no point whatsoever. What I DID say was that parody and stereotyping did not constitute criticism.

I don't think parodying should be banned. I do think parodying can at time muddle the border with hate speech when it involves propagating false images of a group of people, particularly false images of that group (as a whole) doing something the majority in the concerned country disapproves of (like acts of terrorism).

And I do think hate speech should be banned. I get not everyone agree with that, which is well within their right. But in Canada, hate speech is in fact banned. In other countries, the restrictions are more limited, or even inexistant. That's as it should be ; if every country was the same, you would never have the option of moving to a country whose policies fits your own opinion of what a nation should be like.

Speak for yourself. If you don't like it, don't come here. If you don't like cartoons about muslims, don't look at them.

I never said I didn't like it. I said it's all empty talk,. Which it is. This is an internet forum to a video game. No discussion here will have any sort of impact whatsoever out in the world. The odds of any of the posters on CFC actually bothering to learn something new from the posts of any other posters in a charged political thread are similarly pretty damn low.

 

[sysyphus]

But do you say the same of every other satire/parody/stereotyping that pokes fun at people, out of interest? Or do muslims/religious people get special treatment?

Like I said, they should be allowed to be published, but I seriously question the motives of the people trying to publish them, it's not comparable to TV satire.

Linky?

I'll see if I can find one.

 

[Gone Dark]

Speak for yourself. If you don't like it, don't come here. If you don't like cartoons about muslims, don't look at them.

Those kind of choices really seems to piss some people off.

 

[woody60707]

hai guiz, i herd fredomz of spech was only for people who u agree wit