Does FFH need a Lizardman Civ?

[Vehem]

Preliminary look at Wetlands, Swamps and Trails

Wetlands are slightly recoloured from Sezereth's grassland texture

Swamps are based on what Rhye did with the wild-wheat base, but with added reeds/rushes and water.

Trails are an edit of the roads texture, still using the road .nifs (special route that is going to allow some commerce in swamps - trying to reduce the need for any standard improvements to be built, they'll be allowed but at an abysmal workrate for lizard workers)

 

[Ekolite]

Cool, I think it would be best if the grasslnds in lizzie territory turned to wetlands -> swamps automatically but if the area changes hands the wet-lands/swamps remain and have to be gotten rid of by scorching.

 

[Vehem]

Cool, I think it would be best if the grasslnds in lizzie territory turned to wetlands -> swamps automatically but if the area changes hands the wet-lands/swamps remain and have to be gotten rid of by scorching.

Aye - that's how it ended up, though "Spring" allows the lizardmen to speed up the "Swamp" part...

 

[Ekolite]

Oh ok, are you using the original idea or adapting/changing it? Either way is fine of course, I'm just interested to know.

 

[woodelf]

Looks like a great start Vehem. I'm glad I recruited you.

 

[Vehem]

Ok - these are ideas that I've plundered from the thread, arranged into some sort of order.

Two civilizations - one Good Alignment, one Evil Alignment.

===
Good - Sun, Water, Earth (and possibly Mind at the risk over overloading the Palace)
Originally followers of two of the "Lizardman-deities", who are in fact misrepresentations of Kilmorph and Oghma. The civilization cannot directly follow a religion (as they've got it a bit wrong), but have priest replacement units that allow some of the benefits of certain religions. In this case for instance the "Lizard-Kilmorph" priest would be able to "Transmute".

Because of that particular ability, gold is abundant to this race, though they tend not to value it or horde it as Dwarves might, but use it in everyday construction and decoration.

The followers of the "Lizard-Oghma" are seers, and those seers have foreseen what is to come if the Sheiam and the Infernals are not stopped. Again, this is linked into the "Age of Despair" which as far as "Fall Further" is concerned is how the "Age of Rebirth" ends, but this civilization is determined to make sure that it doesn't happen.

One way in which they seek to prevent it is by calling upon a creature from the Age of Dragons - a sleeping Wyvern who once served Kilmorph. Although smaller than Abashi, Acheron or Eurabrates and lacking any forelimbs (as Wyverns do) he still remains a potent hero unit.
===

Evil - Sun, Water, Law (and possibly Death)
Just as there are men who worship the evil gods, there are lizards who have fallen under their sway too. In this case - it's another misrepresentation, this time of Aeron - the god of murder. Although he is known by a different name, this civ offers sacrifices to Aeron on a grand scale. Prisoners, slaves, dissenters - all are bled upon the altar. The overriding philosophy of this civ is that the strongest have the right to use those weaker than them as they wish.

Government is totalitarian - complete order enforced by fear and swift (fatal) punishment. Their armies are organized and eager to spill blood in their god's name. At their head are the dark-priests of "Lizard-Aeron" - an unholy combination of Priest and Shadow. One of these priests stands out amongst the others as their hero.
==

The keypoints of the "Lizardmen" as a race:

• They have a shared history, dating back to the Age of Dragons
• They have diverged as a result of the Godswar
• Each civilization is fundamentally shaped by their religion (and as such - they won't be changing religions to anything else)
• These religions are similar, but not the same, as those followed by the races of men
• Both civilizations benefit from the swamp/jungle mechanics

 

[woodelf]

I would like to suggest one thing to be done graphically and that's that Hian and my lizzie civ uses Dragonia II lizzie unit art and Kol7's et al uses FfH2 lizzie art. That way they are even more different. Not a big deal, but I personally like Dragonia II's better in this instance.

 

[Vehem]

I would like to suggest one thing to be done graphically and that's that Hian and my lizzie civ uses Dragonia II lizzie unit art and Kol7's et al uses FfH2 lizzie art. That way they are even more different. Not a big deal, but I personally like Dragonia II's better in this instance.

I was thinking of using Dragonia's for both sets (as they're more comprehensive - there's only 3 C.Roland style ones at the moment, plus I really like Dragonia's).
To differentiate I was thinking of a slight reskin to the models to make each tribe a slightly different colour - maybe one green-blue and one green-brown. Originally the same race, but the skin colours have adapted over the centuries.

 

[woodelf]

Fair enough. I've been bugging winddelay about finishing the dart blowgun unit and I think it's close.

 

[Ekolite]

I agree that they should both use the Dragonia art but if they were reskinned that would be great. Also, FYI you can only assign 3 resources to a building iirc, not sure why this is. Also, I kinda liked the whole canabalism, evil priest, sacrificial theme for the evil one but its your choice. Also, I think giving both sun and water is unnecessary and would make them too similiar. How about Earth, Sun, Nature for the good and Shadow, Death, Mind for the evil?

 

[thomas.berubeg]

How about giving the good Earth, Sun, and gold as thier starting resources?
also, will there be wetland and swamps outside lizzie lands?

 

[Vehem]

I agree that they should both use the Dragonia art but if they were reskinned that would be great. Also, FYI you can only assign 3 resources to a building iirc, not sure why this is.

Good point - you're right. Initially the Water/Sun manas were a practical consideration (as Scorch and Spring are important for Swamp-management) but as I'm now going to give that ability to the Workers, it's not as vital anymore.

I may keep the "Sun" for both (cold blooded lizards and I'm kinda stuck on the "sun-worship"/Aztec theme - I don't want to mess with Huitzilopochtli ) but switch out Water for the alternate types that I mentioned.

That would leave the Mazatl with Sun, Earth, Mind (Sun, Kilmorph, Oghma) and the Cualli with Sun, Law, Death (Sun, Totalitarianism, Aeron - though Aeron has a link to Body actually if I recall)

Also, I kinda liked the whole canabalism, evil priest, sacrificial theme for the evil one but its your choice.

Hopefully that will still be how they seem. I didn't mention cannibalism in the original writeup but that can easily be made part of the rituals/sacrifices (in fact - I like it - and it fits the "Strong abuse the weak" ethos). The "Soul-supply" side of things I'm going to have to drop as it's a fairly major undertaking on the scale of rewriting/extending the spell-system and I'm fairly sure it'd take DLL changes to make a good job of it. Not saying it isn't possible, but DLL work is something I'd rather avoid doing for this project.

Sacrifices and Evil priests will definitely be making an appearance using a UB and UU respectively, as well as a mechanic that relies on both - Priest + Altar = Sacrifice.

 

[Vehem]

How about giving the good Earth, Sun, and gold as thier starting resources?
also, will there be wetland and swamps outside lizzie lands?

Gold would make sense, though they can generate that themselves using Transmute, so they're very likely to gain it during gameplay (any copper supply can be made into a gold supply instead).

Wetland and Swamps can *exist* outside of Lizzie lands, but won't appear there. You'd have to lose a lizardman city or have your borders pushed back by culture in order for it to appear in other lands. The "LizzieJungle" is purely a lizardman territory only feature. It will disappear from other lands at the start of every turn, leaving normal jungle behind.

If you conquer a Lizardman city with a large number of swamps around it, you'll need a Scorch adept to clean up - he can return all of the wetland/swamp to grassland (capturing a swamp-city is quite an inconvenience for the ill-prepared conqueror).

 

[xienwolf]

So, just to toss out a monkey wrench early... What does Hell Terrain do to our cold-blooded friends?

 

[Vehem]

So, just to toss out a monkey wrench early... What does Hell Terrain do to our cold-blooded friends?

Screws them royally to be honest

I tied Wetlands to the same Hell Terrain as Grassland (Broken Lands). If hell-terrain recedes, the underlying terrain will be Grassland and then can change back to Wetlands as normal. Swamps are destroyed if they're not on Wetland at the start of a turn, so hell terrain will wipe them out.

 

[woodelf]

I guess both lizzie civs should avoid Hyborem at all costs.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

gives to good lizzies a reason to fight the demon hordes

 

[xienwolf]

And now that the Sacrafice Points Mechanic is pretty much not an issue anymore, look what I found...

Would need very little modification from that to make the whole thing viable I imagine.

 

[Vehem]

And now that the Sacrafice Points Mechanic is pretty much not an issue anymore, look what I found...

Would need very little modification from that to make the whole thing viable I imagine.

Aye - I thought of that when it was mentioned, but again - it would mean DLL changes which I'd still like to avoid as it adds another level of complexity to updating the mod for new versions.

You're right though - that would do it just about perfectly with little work.

 

[woodelf]

Does anyone have a good idea of what the two palaces should look like? I think they need distinct palaces and can't seem to find lizard civ palaces under google.