Does Lautaro's Swift Hawk ability apply to naval, ranged, or air units?

[megabearsfan]

Was playing as Mapuche this weekend, and noticed that when I was killing enemy units with my own ranged, naval, or air units, the "-20 Loyalty" message did not appear on the nearby cities. Lautaro's "Swift Hawk" ability in the Civilopedia says:

If a Mapuche unit defeats an enemy unit within the borders of the enemy city, that city loses 20 Loyalty. Pillaging a tile within the borders of an enemy city causes that city to lose 5 Loyalty.

This implies that all Mapuche units should have this effect, but the game only displays the message when I kill an enemy unit with a melee unit. So, does anybody know for sure if the Swift Hawk ability applies to all unit types?

Also, do naval and air units receive the experience bonus when trained in a city that has a governor? This is another element of Mapuche that is difficult to explicitly test.

 

[FearSunn]

You can easily check where naval and air units receive xp bonus from cities with governor with this mod:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1442424451

 

[megabearsfan]

You can easily check where naval and air units receive xp bonus from cities with governor with this mod:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1442424451

Good suggestion. I downloaded the mod you linked. Looks like naval units do not get the experience boost from the Toqui ability if a governor is in the city. Here's a screenshot from my test:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1458817201

I would assume that air units do not either, though I haven't tested that yet. So yeah, looks like Mapuche and Lautaro's abilities only affect land units, despite the description's implication otherwise. And as far as I can tell, the loyalty loss from Swift Hawk only applies when an enemy unit is killed by a Mapuche melee unit.

 

[Laurana Kanan]

Interesting, because I don't see any kind of class restriction for Swift Hawk attached to that modifier.

 

[megabearsfan]

Interesting, because I don't see any kind of class restriction for Swift Hawk attached to that modifier.

Unless it's just a UI/display bug, in which the "-20 Loyalty" message does not display over the city...? But I tried doing a Hot Seat game against myself to check the loyalty of the defender's city, and it didn't seem to be going down as much as I expected it to. I killed 2 or 3 units, but the city only lost 20 Loyalty. I might have to do some more experimentation...

 

[Heinage]

Were you firing from outside the city borders?
I'm playing as Lautaro and was wondering the same thing. I figured it was because my ranged units weren't within the city boundary when initiating the attack.

 

[megabearsfan]

Were you firing from outside the city borders?
I'm playing as Lautaro and was wondering the same thing. I figured it was because my ranged units weren't within the city boundary when initiating the attack.

That could be it. I'll have to rig up another test to find out. Would that also apply for melee units that move from outside the city's borders to attack a target within the city's borders? I had always assumed that the requirement was that the killed unit had to be standing in the city's borders when it died.

If this is the case, I wonder if it's even possible to get this bonus from air units. Maybe if you base the plane close to the target, then actually deploy it onto a space belonging to the enemy city?

EDIT: I did some testing in a hot seat MP game against myself tonight. I think Heinage's guess is correct. If the attacking unit does not end its turn inside the enemy city's territory, the Swift Hawk ability does not appear to trigger. So if you're making a ranged attack (including an attack with naval or air units), both the attacking unit and defending unit have to be in the city's territory in order for the loyalty loss to trigger. I assume that both units have to be in the same city's borders, but I wasn't able to test this.

 

[Heinage]

Yep I feared as much. I find the ability quite underwhelming and situational. I haven't had a chance to use this effectively anywhere in my game.
You have to really come across an ideal and unique situation in order to kill enough units in one turn and maybe pillage a few tiles, in order to turn a city. Very hard.

 

[megabearsfan]

Yep I feared as much. I find the ability quite underwhelming and situational. I haven't had a chance to use this effectively anywhere in my game.
You have to really come across an ideal and unique situation in order to kill enough units in one turn and maybe pillage a few tiles, in order to turn a city. Very hard.

I think it's intended to be used against civs that already have cities that are losing loyalty, especially if that civ is in a dark age.

Kind of starting to go off topic, but another thing I'm curious about is what happens when a free city goes to zero loyalty? Which civ does that city flip to? Is it the civ that is applying the most pressure? If Mapuche's abilities force a free city to zero loyalty, does it automatically go to Mapuche?

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

I think it's intended to be used against civs that already have cities that are losing loyalty, especially if that civ is in a dark age.

Kind of starting to go off topic, but another thing I'm curious about is what happens when a free city goes to zero loyalty? Which civ does that city flip to? Is it the civ that is applying the most pressure? If Mapuche's abilities force a free city to zero loyalty, does it automatically go to Mapuche?

It goes to the civ that has applied the most Loyalty pressure during the history of the city being a Free City (both currently and during any prior period of being a Free City, as the counter is not cleared).

I don't know, however, whether Lautaro's ability counts as foreign Loyalty pressure by Mapuche or not.

 

[megabearsfan]

It goes to the civ that has applied the most Loyalty pressure during the history of the city being a Free City (both currently and during any prior period of being a Free City, as the counter is not cleared).

I don't know, however, whether Lautaro's ability counts as foreign Loyalty pressure by Mapuche or not.

Yeah, I have been able to use Swift Hawk to bring a city down to zero loyalty, and every time I've done it, it has flipped to me (Mapuche). But they've always been border cities in which I was the one applying loyalty pressure anyway. So I'm unclear how this would work if other civs are also applying pressure.

 

[Weraptor]

Pretty sure it flips to civ with the most pressure regardless of Lautaro's bonuses.

 

[Qwan]

[1.0.12.9] I ran into this problem using range units, and after trying a few things, figured out what is going on.
The target enemy unit does NOT have to be in the borders of an enemy city, but the unit that kills it DOES.
(I expected the reverse)
In the first attached file, France has a field cannon in their territory, which you can kill with a Mapuche field cannon in Mapuche territory, and there is no loyalty loss.
In the second attached file (test1), France has that field cannon in Mapuche territory, and I moved a field cannon into their territory, which you can use to kill it. Then there's the loyalty loss.

I guess this makes some sense, as it's more dangerous to have your units in the borders of their city, where their walls can fire upon your units. But it would be nice if the description of the Swift Hawk ability made the requirement clear.