does the mod team have a problem with women?
- Thread starter heartofgrigori
- Start date
- Status
wilboman
Hibernorse Frost Giant
You, Claire and Sureshot are the only ones to my knowledge.
Kael
Deity
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
I doubt that "the Italian Stallion of Civ" is a woman. I think CuteUnit is a girl too, and I had no idea about Woodelf. There are probably a couple more who are keeping their gender a secret (or maybe lying about it)
Nikis-Knight
Deity
Most of the regulare are of the male persusion, but we do have a lot more dl's than posters, and I'm sure some number are female...
wilboman
Hibernorse Frost Giant
Woodelf isn't sure. Hin likes to maintain an air of mystery around hinself.
.SinClaire.
Terminally Cute ;)
Aww. I was mentioned
I missed a earlier chance to post here (coming back from my hiatus from the ffh2 forums). Nothing I can say that hasn't already been said, I guess. SoOo...okie, i'm off to good further rise my post count, Toodlelou thread.
Connery
Chieftain
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2006
- Messages
- 45
Actually, sidestepping a bit from the whole (non-existent) misogynistic issues, what bothers me more about FFH's lore isn't as much the lore itself, which is great and shows a great attention to detail, but the fact that in some regards there seems to have been a deliberate "laziness" when assigning certain names to certain concepts.
For example, I can understand that, at it's core, the Lanun are a "fun" civ, hence the Guybrush Threepwood hero, but in other instances I find there has been some lack of imagination, some borrowing of names, which puts me off entirely; mind you, I'm not calling the creative force behind the lore "uninteresting" or "uninspired", like I said these are only particular instances where I think they should have made good use of their lore-creating imagination and come up with better names; for example:
Malakim; this word has been used in several different tabletop RPG's and it usually refers to (from it's original judaic meaning) "the fallen" as in "fallen angels". ("malak" itself means angel). It's strange, at least for me, that a desert dwelling zealot nations would have the name of fallen angels or even angels (borderline heresy?).
Calabim, Balseraph, etc, again are all names used in other RPG's (from the top of my mind, In Nomine) and are all references to different angellic choirs. This would be "acceptable" if the game was about fallen angel civilizations or whatnot but when we get down to the specifics of each civilization, it starts to fall apart.
Brujah, a Calabim unit, is a blatant rip-off of the Vampire the Masquerade RPG, and simply doesn't fit in the FFH universe, not even with a great deal of mental muscle, it simply looks and feels like a concept borrowed from another source and glued into FFH without much thought.
While one can argue that orcs and elves and all other fantasy races are also borrowed, I see no dissonant structure with, say, the Clan of Embers; they are your not-quite-archetypical half-orcs/orcs whi have enough "orcishness" to feel good but enough differentiation from standard orcs to feel novel and refreshing to play with.
Again, take my comment as you will but keep in mind it's not a negative comment but rather, I hope, my own constructive critique. I would pass the same judgement regardless of this being a mod for CIV4, another different game, a book, a movie, etc.
For example, I can understand that, at it's core, the Lanun are a "fun" civ, hence the Guybrush Threepwood hero, but in other instances I find there has been some lack of imagination, some borrowing of names, which puts me off entirely; mind you, I'm not calling the creative force behind the lore "uninteresting" or "uninspired", like I said these are only particular instances where I think they should have made good use of their lore-creating imagination and come up with better names; for example:
Malakim; this word has been used in several different tabletop RPG's and it usually refers to (from it's original judaic meaning) "the fallen" as in "fallen angels". ("malak" itself means angel). It's strange, at least for me, that a desert dwelling zealot nations would have the name of fallen angels or even angels (borderline heresy?).
Calabim, Balseraph, etc, again are all names used in other RPG's (from the top of my mind, In Nomine) and are all references to different angellic choirs. This would be "acceptable" if the game was about fallen angel civilizations or whatnot but when we get down to the specifics of each civilization, it starts to fall apart.
Brujah, a Calabim unit, is a blatant rip-off of the Vampire the Masquerade RPG, and simply doesn't fit in the FFH universe, not even with a great deal of mental muscle, it simply looks and feels like a concept borrowed from another source and glued into FFH without much thought.
While one can argue that orcs and elves and all other fantasy races are also borrowed, I see no dissonant structure with, say, the Clan of Embers; they are your not-quite-archetypical half-orcs/orcs whi have enough "orcishness" to feel good but enough differentiation from standard orcs to feel novel and refreshing to play with.
Again, take my comment as you will but keep in mind it's not a negative comment but rather, I hope, my own constructive critique. I would pass the same judgement regardless of this being a mod for CIV4, another different game, a book, a movie, etc.
Kael
Deity
I wasn't aware of In Nomine until someone pointed it out after I released FfH. Keep in mind that In Nomine didn't make up any of those names, we both took them from the same source. So you can not like that we took the references from judeo-chrisitian sources, but it doesn't have anything to do with In Nomine.
We do use the name from angelic choirs for our civs. I like the texture that adds to the mod (there are a ton of names from judeo-christian and celtic sources with an occasional norse name). I think its fair to use the names and not use the definition (since they obviously aren't angelic choirs). No different than calling a car a Mustang, it isn't literal.
Brujah seemed to describe what I was going for with the unit but it did come from White Wolf. It was a quick pull but it seems to match well. As a name its so so.
We also have a lot of "homages" in FfH. References to a lot of sources outside of the game. I know some people really enjoy these and some people don't. Guybrush, Monty Python references, Edgar Allen Poe quotes, giants named after the Three Stooges, Lovecraft references, etc. Although I can see why someon would want FfH to be wholly unique and how this would break the illusion of the world I really enjoy building these pieces in. Some are obvious (like Guybrush) and some are well hidden (like the muppet references). I understand what you are saying, but the outside references will probably stay, in the end they are part of what makes FfH unique (even if they arent unique).
We do use the name from angelic choirs for our civs. I like the texture that adds to the mod (there are a ton of names from judeo-christian and celtic sources with an occasional norse name). I think its fair to use the names and not use the definition (since they obviously aren't angelic choirs). No different than calling a car a Mustang, it isn't literal.
Brujah seemed to describe what I was going for with the unit but it did come from White Wolf. It was a quick pull but it seems to match well. As a name its so so.
We also have a lot of "homages" in FfH. References to a lot of sources outside of the game. I know some people really enjoy these and some people don't. Guybrush, Monty Python references, Edgar Allen Poe quotes, giants named after the Three Stooges, Lovecraft references, etc. Although I can see why someon would want FfH to be wholly unique and how this would break the illusion of the world I really enjoy building these pieces in. Some are obvious (like Guybrush) and some are well hidden (like the muppet references). I understand what you are saying, but the outside references will probably stay, in the end they are part of what makes FfH unique (even if they arent unique).
xienwolf
Deity
Sounds like a Trivia Question is in order 
wilboman
Hibernorse Frost Giant
I think that question may have been asked already.
thomas.berubeg
Wandering the World
If so...
Spoiler :
Vehem
Modmod Monkey
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2005
- Messages
- 3,219
What muppet references?
Go generate some Great Engineers...
xienwolf
Deity
Bah, I figured they meant that Kermit the Frog is one of the resources in the game 
(forgot about good ol' Fozzie, even though he was recently talked about in the Trivia thread 
)
(forgot about good ol' Fozzie, even though he was recently talked about in the Trivia thread )
Broken Hawk
Emperor
The Muppets Civ ModMod...coming soon.
The only aspect of all of this that my gf takes issue with is the "Sheaim" -- basically means "women" in eng/hebrew
and they really are not nice.
OTOH hand, most of this is pretty gruesome. I mean, it's fantasy. It's imagining a world in which any individual could learn magic, and then express their well on the face of the world. Personally, I like Perpentech the most -- I think he's the most interesting character. Most of us, I think, believe that if individuals had that kind of power, the world would be a bad place even though there are many good people in it.
OT: Typhoid Mary -- In the game she's diseased and terrible. What made the real typhoid mary so scary was that she appeared to be healthy -- and a nice person -- but everyone around her died. Still, the text describing her is well written.
and they really are not nice.
OTOH hand, most of this is pretty gruesome. I mean, it's fantasy. It's imagining a world in which any individual could learn magic, and then express their well on the face of the world. Personally, I like Perpentech the most -- I think he's the most interesting character. Most of us, I think, believe that if individuals had that kind of power, the world would be a bad place even though there are many good people in it.
OT: Typhoid Mary -- In the game she's diseased and terrible. What made the real typhoid mary so scary was that she appeared to be healthy -- and a nice person -- but everyone around her died. Still, the text describing her is well written.
- Status
Similar threads
