azzaman333
meh
It's equally as likely that the staff laid off were no longer required for development, so they were in essence paying them to do nothing.
Dont buy Civ5 : Dont be the sheep
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It's equally as likely that the staff laid off were no longer required for development, so they were in essence paying them to do nothing.
tom2050
Deity
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What you don't seem to understand is that Take-2 is the parent company; to think they had nothing to do with it is a bit naive.
There are plenty of websites that say Take-2 fired 20 Firaxians as well. I don't really care either way of who did it; they both had a say in it I'm sure.
Seems that only 58+ of the Firaxis staff is working on Civ 5 out of the 130 or so. The 20 fired could have been doing other things besides Civ 5. This does not exactly align itself with reports of the firings that they were done due to Civ 5 being streamlined and what-not. Otherwise, it means that 20 were fired from Civ 5 development, and the other non-Civ 5 workers still have their jobs.
There are plenty of websites that say Take-2 fired 20 Firaxians as well. I don't really care either way of who did it; they both had a say in it I'm sure.
Seems that only 58+ of the Firaxis staff is working on Civ 5 out of the 130 or so. The 20 fired could have been doing other things besides Civ 5. This does not exactly align itself with reports of the firings that they were done due to Civ 5 being streamlined and what-not. Otherwise, it means that 20 were fired from Civ 5 development, and the other non-Civ 5 workers still have their jobs.
Aussie_Lurker
Deity
Its almost certain that the executive of both companies had a say in the decision-but that doesn't mean 2K actually fired them. Firaxis probably has very few *permanent* staff beyond its executive team. Most of their labor-force is probably of the "seasonal" variety-where it peaks during the height of a project's development, then shed as the project nears completion. What this doesn't do is cast aspersions on the relationship between 2K & Firaxis, as some are suggesting!
Aussie.
Aussie.
Greybriar
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tom2050
Deity
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That list is 82 people... not sure where the 130 claim came from elsewhere. That list probably does not include (I wouldn't think) the 20 fired; which would have been 102. But, it's all done with... so I guess they have no other projects going on for those 20 to do.
Firings like this with the claim made are not common. Especially not common to a company with such a successful products like Civilization, Alpha Centauri, etc...
Yet Take-2 has the major financial problems in the current and past... and the overall horrible company history and resume; this is enough to make me bet Take-2 was the force behind this, not our beloved Firaxis.
Aramel
Warlord
"Firaxis never would have fired their employees because I love Firaxis. Clearly it had to be Take-2, because I don't like them."
This is essentially the reasoning here, no?
Even if firings like this were unusual (and I'm not convinced they are), there is a far simpler explanation for it than that 2K has it out for Firaxis or something. There's still that terrible recession going on, remember? That could maybe have something to do with it?
This is essentially the reasoning here, no?
Even if firings like this were unusual (and I'm not convinced they are), there is a far simpler explanation for it than that 2K has it out for Firaxis or something. There's still that terrible recession going on, remember? That could maybe have something to do with it?
Says who? Just because a game has a strong fanbase does not mean that the game was commercially successful. Look at the movie Office Space. It's got a huge cult following, yet it was a commercial failure.
I'm not saying Civ was a commercial failure, I don't know their financial situation. The point is, you can't base your argument on something as simplistic as "Their games are good so the company must be doing great".
This is just plain silly. If Firaxis was extremely cost efficient and making a ton of money, Take 2 would be incredibly stupid to fire anyone there. I don't even know how there's an argument. On one side we have a company that managed to grow big enough to be able to buy Firaxis, with people who have access to all the numbers, and can make rational decisions based on those numbers. On the other side we have someone say Firaxis is awesome and Take 2 sucks so it's all Take 2's fault...
I think I know which one I'll consider to be the most credible.
tom2050
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Has Firaxis ever fired employees before a game release in the past? I checked but could find nothing on it. If you know of a case, then please bring forth that information... until that happens, there is nothing to back up that this is more likely a Take-Two issue.. because of Take-Two financial issues that have been going on (in the recent past, haven't checked to see what their current financial situation is). When I say Take-Two, I mean Take-Two, not 2K the publisher.
Look it up.. you will find other companies that have done firings before game releases.. but you won't find many compared to the number of software titles released. That is where it comes from... research it a little. Firings if a software title fails or company fails is different than firings before a successful software title release to save some money.
Great games may not be financially successful... Civilization has not been a commercial failure though.
Take-Two acquired and owns Firaxis... so any money saved by Firaxis, is saved by Take-Two. Look at Take-Two's business past, they are not very intelligent people running that company; there are hordes of bad business decisions skewed everywhere.
Firaxis is not the same company it was in the past at all; they are not the same group of individuals so - to - speak, but it is still naive to think Take-Two had nothing to do with it. I am of the opinion that Take-Two is the one who facilitated the whole thing. Take-Two should cut some of their own, before cutting employees from a successful franchise like Civilization.
Now if they cut the Firaxis guy working on facebook farmville (or w/e it was), then I don't blame them.. but from what the report says, it doesn't sound like that was the case, which is unknown.
Wow! Somewhere in the middle of all these pages this thread evolved from
'Firaxis/Take2 are overworking their sheep resources'
to
'Firaxis/Take2 are sacrificing too many workers for the latest item in the production queue!'
(forgive me if my summary is not 100% accurate, I don't really want to read through all the intermediate posts)
my thoughts on the divergent themes:
1. I'm happy to be a well looked after sheep - I've preordered the game and have been reading more civ forum stuff than ever before... even JOINED the forums to get in on the action
2. Having a whole bunch of friends in the entertainment creative industries - film, animation, games - I know that most contracts are project based and even if they're not, everyone knows that if their company doesn't succeed in keeping the projects flowing then some staff will have to be released. The modern labour force has to be flexible for everyone's benefit... it might be uncomfortable for individuals when they have to go and find some new work and maybe even move (gasp).. but such is the nature of the modern world and we generally, collectively, benefit from that.
'Firaxis/Take2 are overworking their sheep resources'
to
'Firaxis/Take2 are sacrificing too many workers for the latest item in the production queue!'
(forgive me if my summary is not 100% accurate, I don't really want to read through all the intermediate posts)
my thoughts on the divergent themes:
1. I'm happy to be a well looked after sheep - I've preordered the game and have been reading more civ forum stuff than ever before... even JOINED the forums to get in on the action
2. Having a whole bunch of friends in the entertainment creative industries - film, animation, games - I know that most contracts are project based and even if they're not, everyone knows that if their company doesn't succeed in keeping the projects flowing then some staff will have to be released. The modern labour force has to be flexible for everyone's benefit... it might be uncomfortable for individuals when they have to go and find some new work and maybe even move (gasp).. but such is the nature of the modern world and we generally, collectively, benefit from that.
Thyrwyn
Guardian at the Gate
Do we have any indication that the Civilization was the only project Firaxis was working on? Perhaps they decided to can some other project in the early stages and let the people go. Whether this was prompted by 2K is irrelevant. It seems terribly near-sighted to assume that it necessarily civ-related.
Commander Bello
Say No 2 Net Validations
There is of course Civ5, there is CivFacebook (which seems to have been delayed) and I think I remember a "secret project" being mentioned at the beginning of the year.
With roughly 100 employees, I don't think there is space for more.
Commander Bello
Say No 2 Net Validations
Yes, but they've got rid of 20 of these ~130, right?
Johnny Be
Warlord
I think there will be a lot of intelligent sheep who will buy the game and love it! I'm one of them!
Baaaaaaaa.....
I might not love everything in the game, but learning that very few things in life are perfect, is part of growing up!
Baaaaaaaa.....
I might not love everything in the game, but learning that very few things in life are perfect, is part of growing up!
Dale
Mohawk Games Developer
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One of the articles mentioned Jesse Smith (Firaxis's 3rd Producer) being let go a month ago. Since we know Dennis Shirk is Civ5's Producer, and that guy announced on Facebook as the CivNetwork Producer, Jesse must have been Producer for the 3rd project. Since he's no longer there, maybe they cancelled that project? That would explain the staff layoffs.
Johnny Be
Warlord
It's highly probable that was what happened. As Aussie_Lurker has quoted:
It looks like a top to bottom dev team. I'm sad for them
but I don't think It will have any impact on CiV development.And if it keeps Firaxis "lean" and working on stuff that I like, then it's for the best.
Zhahz
PC Gamer
To some extent I'd agree but you have to figure Firaxis has made plenty off of civ and other successful games over the years, and in that time has built a special relationship with the community that doesn't exist in most retail.
Now they are looking to milk every extra penny out of the players.
Retail is about making profits but it's not always 100% screw over everyone. It is possible for some entities to be less bloodthirsty about sucking every dollar out of customers.
I'm not going to say don't buy the game, despite 2K's involvement and greed, despite the Steam involvement, and despite Firaxis obvious indifference to it's community of years and years in preference to squeezing out some extra pennies
But I'm not going to encourage bleeding customers dry by buying overpriced DLC, or overpriced collector's editions, and whatnot. 50-60 for a quality game is np, paying ridiculous amounts for little bits of extra data is not.
evrett37
Prince
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Post More LOLsheep! Lets make this a Lolsheep thread! They're great!
Yes I'm making a connection between all these social problems and Civ 5. All of the problem occurred because customers/citizens ect are apathetic sheep willing to be harvested. Its happens over and over again and we just never learn. Today they were talking about some diabetes drug that the company actively covered up horrible stuff about.
Civ 5 is just another example of predatory behavior we are just letting happen through inaction/apathy. The Civ franchise is being used to by Take two/2K not to great a great game but to bootstrap the development of a social media long term marketing scheme. To get you all sucked into their distribution system, keeping you dependent on logging into their system, and nickle and dimming you over time. Its about control of the market and repeat sales not love of Civ or the best interest of the customer.
If Warcraft fans can assert themselves why cant we? If you love civ post a LolSheep!
Yes I'm making a connection between all these social problems and Civ 5. All of the problem occurred because customers/citizens ect are apathetic sheep willing to be harvested. Its happens over and over again and we just never learn. Today they were talking about some diabetes drug that the company actively covered up horrible stuff about.
Civ 5 is just another example of predatory behavior we are just letting happen through inaction/apathy. The Civ franchise is being used to by Take two/2K not to great a great game but to bootstrap the development of a social media long term marketing scheme. To get you all sucked into their distribution system, keeping you dependent on logging into their system, and nickle and dimming you over time. Its about control of the market and repeat sales not love of Civ or the best interest of the customer.
If Warcraft fans can assert themselves why cant we? If you love civ post a LolSheep!
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