Dot mapping help needed

[kuukkeli]

I just started a new game (Noble/Epic/Fractal/Standard/Temperate/No options) with Vikings. Usually I've been able to make quite decent dot maps but this seems to be hard one. Two cities I've marked are my initial ideas for cities that would claim copper which I want to get with 2nd city. To the north beyond the jungle is Togukawa but I don't know how much space he has to expand to north.

Problem is that both of those locations are quite far and the one closer to Washington is quite low on food while the northern one is low on production. I've been considering to destroy Washington early so that supports the city in the middle but I'd hate to waste that gold between it and Washington.

That long river in the northern part will definetely host at least two cities and there is space for some good coastal cities. Unfortunately the land between the coast and the inland city in the middle is quite bad. So I'd really appreciate some mapping suggestions here.

 

[DaveMcW]

Build in middle of the copper-corn-silks triangle.

P.S. press Ctrl+B before taking screenshots of empty terrain.

 

[Leventis]

Build on the hill 1 SE of northern copper. You have no choice but to go north because of all those peaks.

 

[xanadux]

Definitely the northern copper. You want to keep in mind a couple of future cities before making the exact placement ...
You will want a pigs/wine/floodplain city on the river for freshwater bonus, and a horses/wheat/incense/pig city. But the first city is the copper for axes. As for who to take out first ... that depends who becomes your buddy.

 

[kuukkeli]

Okay, thanks for the suggestions this far. At the moment I'm leaning for the following cities:

Does that look like a reasonable plan (red first, second depends on what Americans do)? And can anyone figure a good city to claim the marble (I hate those stupid peaks)?

 

[xanadux]

That looks like an excellent plan. As far as the marble, Just build one N of the central copper. only 2 peaks, fresh water, sheep, a decent city site. Build a theater and library, and it won't be long and you can hook up the happy gold.

 

[oyzar]

2N of the copper seem way better that way you get the oasis too.

 

[Elkad]

South copper first. Forget the oasis, put the city 1n of copper (copper+sheep in first ring, marble with the border pop, freshwater). 2 peaks, but how long till your city passes size18(+specialists)

If I was Roosevelt, I'd be eyeing the gold/copper/sheep/wine spot just east of that (better for him, but not for you), and I suspect the AI is too. If he doesn't have copper in the last couple black squares around his capital, getting there first puts him in a world of hurt.

 

[cabert]

South copper first. Forget the oasis, put the city 1n of copper (copper+sheep in first ring, marble with the border pop, freshwater). 2 peaks, but how long till your city passes size18(+specialists)

If I was Roosevelt, I'd be eyeing the gold/copper/sheep/wine spot just east of that (better for him, but not for you), and I suspect the AI is too. If he doesn't have copper in the last couple black squares around his capital, getting there first puts him in a world of hurt.

I'd go for this city first too, then build axes there, and go for washington as third city.

 

[kuukkeli]

After a long consideration I decided to go for the southern copper. Here's the map sometime later (I marked cities with circles as ctrl+i seems to have taken away the city markers too - black are mine and blue are American).

Spoiler :

I'm building axes to take over Washington next (already took Boston which is my easternmost city ATM). Now I have two problems:

1) Iron appeared in bad locations. Only the iron south of Washington looks to be in reasonable city location (either 1 or 2 east of corn). Near my capital there's no space for a decent city (maybe later a filler 2S1E of that iron). Iron north of Washington will either be claimed by real bad filler city or after multiple border growths. So maybe I shouldn't claim iron at all before taking down Roosevelt for good, just keep him away from it?

2) Washington has 50% cultural defense and 5 archers. I really doubt that I can't take it without catapults. I have a single great scientist waiting in my capital and I'm wondering if he should bulb mathematics? It's relatively cheap tech and I'd rather save my GS for liberalism but that would shave 16 turns away from catapults

 

[xanadux]

You could build your 2 river cities and cottage them up for teching while you make axes. Hook up the horses for a pillaging chariot or 2. Just run a war of attrition with washington, making sure he doesn't hook up his iron until you get cats. 2 commerce cities north of your copper city will mean fast tech. You don't have to go to war immediately. Once you have cats, take out washington and expand northward. There is no real need to use your scientist on math. I would decide which of the river cities will be your best commerce city and then build an academy there ... +4 culture means quick border pop, no monument required.

 

[xanadux]

And there is a perfectly good spot to hook up your iron ... 2 west of the sheep. Not a great city by any means, but it does have some food and production. You don't really NEED iron tho ... you have copper, and washington isn't well developed, and you will have iron after you take him out.

2 west of the central wheat is a monster commerce city ... wheat, pigs, a flood plain, river, plenty of grasslands, forests for chopping ...

 

[Elkad]

How long till your capital pops a border? Faster than building a settler+defender, marching it over to the iron, and settling a mediocre city by the south iron? That settler+defender could be 3 axes instead.

DC. Make peace, tech towards cats slowly, and stack axes up in Boston. Park units on both iron tiles to watch him. In the next 30ish turns, a few things can happen.

a settler and 2 of those archers go for a walk.
your capital pops a border and you can build/upgrade some swords
construction comes in
you reach 3 axes per archer (15 of them, 5 with cover1 to suicide first, rest with CR1)

And honestly, if you can squash DC, and his coastal pigfarm (excellently placed btw) with axes, who cares when you get the iron hooked up? Get your courthouses in and rex up a little. (Pig/wheat/wine/horses/floodplain - it only works on one tile - would be my next city)

Scientist. I'd sit on it. When DC falls, I'd seriously consider burning it on an academy there. 9 cottages, 6 coastal, 2 forests (chop the other 2), 2 hills. Jungleville 2N of corn has more cottage potential, but low production and won't grow at anywhere near the speed.

 

[Elkad]

Xanadu is correct on the academy btw. Burn it on the pig/wheat/wine city first.

Playing financial, I rarely burn scientists on techs. Just pop an academy in every commerce town, you'll still win the liberalism race (along with music, physics, and fusion). Build wonders and GPs in your capital, military in coppertown.

 

[kuukkeli]

Thanks again. Here's what I've been thinking to do.

I'll move my stack away from Washington (it's not strong enough to take it) and see if that pigfarm can be taken now. Then I'll make peace for a while to get catapults, courthouses and another city (the commerce monster which if I'm correct is the pink city in my 2nd map). My only problem is that I have this urge to raze the pigfarm and build new one west of the pigs as that lets me have a quality fishing (or clamming) village in NE corner later.

I'll leave that GS for academy for the first commerce city I get. Currently I'm running two scientists in my capital as there is huge food surplus and quite low happyness cap. I'll shift to full CE a bit later but without monarchy I guess I'm better off with mostly scientists. This way I'll probably have a GS for an academy in Washington as well.

I'm also planning to eventually move my capital to the forementioned commercial monster as it would be about in the middle of the continent. On the other hand that doesn't seem very high priority so it'll be later.

EDIT: Pigfarm had grown to population 5 so I decided to keep it. 380 AD Roosevelt was defeated. I've been running research at 50% quite a bit so I'll have to focus on economy for now. Then it's time conquer mr. Togukawa.

 

[Elkad]

pigfarm. Grassland pigs, grassland rice, coastal rice, river health bonus, easy irrigation for a couple more tiles. It screams GP farm. Even has a few forests to chop for national epic.