TAfirehawk
WoC Team Manager
Actually that takes no extra coding if done modular as we are in the WoC....but....well....ya know....
Doto [AdvCiv ModMod]
- Thread starter keldath
- Start date
Actually that takes no extra coding if done modular as we are in the WoC....but....well....ya know....
hey dudes,
just got back after 7 hours staight playing poker with friends,
im dead beat,
thanks net for the massive report, tommorow i hope to get them al in.
also,
about the link causeing ctd,
plz tell me exactey where and when and for which entry you run into the game ctds,
its important, i need to fix it stat.
lso, after the first post on the units,
i reaized i cant throw units with extra bonus tere and here,
i will now only differenciate the uu by small amount only,
mostly according to the posts.
i thank you so much for helping this mod,
net the no quast is wierd, are you playing with 3 city radius or not?
*tafirhawk*
i think eventually ill convert to module - as i understood is not hard,
first the mod needs to be balanced and worth th time played.
woc is great, one of the best ideas ever,
just couldnt commit my self for a team effort cause of my school....
gnite all.
btw (lost 5 dollards wotrh in the poker!!)
just got back after 7 hours staight playing poker with friends,
im dead beat,
thanks net for the massive report, tommorow i hope to get them al in.
also,
about the link causeing ctd,
plz tell me exactey where and when and for which entry you run into the game ctds,
its important, i need to fix it stat.
lso, after the first post on the units,
i reaized i cant throw units with extra bonus tere and here,
i will now only differenciate the uu by small amount only,
mostly according to the posts.
i thank you so much for helping this mod,
net the no quast is wierd, are you playing with 3 city radius or not?
*tafirhawk*
i think eventually ill convert to module - as i understood is not hard,
first the mod needs to be balanced and worth th time played.
woc is great, one of the best ideas ever,
just couldnt commit my self for a team effort cause of my school....
gnite all.
btw (lost 5 dollards wotrh in the poker!!)
Lets look a few hypothetical civs:
Lets say the Greeks get their UU and a Spartan UU– both are melee – so in the middle ages the greeks will have some upgraded experienced maceman and at least 2 extra good cities it conquered – so the best attack against them will be with horse units, so we downgrade the Greek pikemen to a 5 or leave at a 6 and give it + 65% vs horse. We may also downgrade the guild and/or bank since it is likely to have a large army - this will help civs get ahead tech wise.
Now lets look at the Mongols – if they get their UU + another horse unit in the late classical to middle age, we downgrade their longbows or muskets and mace. Maybe have the Ger cost more gold later on no musket maufacture and no stables 2.
For civs that get weak UU but get an extra building:
If we have a civ that gets a good building bonus like a granary that produces gold – we balance it later one with a guild that produces less gold.
This gives a civ their moment in the sun – but that moment will expire and a new civ will have their moment.
It’s a fact (or lets say my strong opinion) that 50% of all games are decided by the end of the classical age –that is to say an inevitable victory for domination, score or spaceship. Another 40% are decided by the beginning of the industrial age and only 10% are decided by the start of the computer age. I have never seen a civ come from behind and win in the computer age. I’ve seen civs that have had a much lower score wipe out much higher scores civs, but that was to be expected – researcher civs get ahead several techs and hide behind their superior defensive units – until a brief “window” of opportunity arises when a militant civ with a larger empire gets a tech that can kill the defenders – then it’s lights out for the researcher or at least his economy is is shambles and his lands are pillaged - he may still have a high score but he is doomed.
(A good example of this is Egypt - they alway seam to end up this way if they make it to the computer age with a good score.)
So with above in mind as time passes UU & buildings should get stronger to counter early start civs. - This can be tricky as soom civs play the game better - or should I say the fix is in. Some civs like the Americans want to build and research but are ganged up on by the other AI's, so their economy is lagging. Some civs are left alone to build - these always seam to be the same civs - so they buid while the other civs are at war - they require no additional help in later ages. I can only think of one militant civ that needs a little help, the Aztec genrally attack everybody and in most games, not all, they are way behind in tech. The Zulu are generally behind, but they play much better from that position and attack with purpose and always seam to be a powerhouse unless they had a real bad starting position. The Mongols have 2 sides, genghis khan - plays like the Aztecs and kubla khan who plays like the Greeks - attack early, then build -then attack en-mass.
Lets say the Greeks get their UU and a Spartan UU– both are melee – so in the middle ages the greeks will have some upgraded experienced maceman and at least 2 extra good cities it conquered – so the best attack against them will be with horse units, so we downgrade the Greek pikemen to a 5 or leave at a 6 and give it + 65% vs horse. We may also downgrade the guild and/or bank since it is likely to have a large army - this will help civs get ahead tech wise.
Now lets look at the Mongols – if they get their UU + another horse unit in the late classical to middle age, we downgrade their longbows or muskets and mace. Maybe have the Ger cost more gold later on no musket maufacture and no stables 2.
For civs that get weak UU but get an extra building:
If we have a civ that gets a good building bonus like a granary that produces gold – we balance it later one with a guild that produces less gold.
This gives a civ their moment in the sun – but that moment will expire and a new civ will have their moment.
It’s a fact (or lets say my strong opinion) that 50% of all games are decided by the end of the classical age –that is to say an inevitable victory for domination, score or spaceship. Another 40% are decided by the beginning of the industrial age and only 10% are decided by the start of the computer age. I have never seen a civ come from behind and win in the computer age. I’ve seen civs that have had a much lower score wipe out much higher scores civs, but that was to be expected – researcher civs get ahead several techs and hide behind their superior defensive units – until a brief “window” of opportunity arises when a militant civ with a larger empire gets a tech that can kill the defenders – then it’s lights out for the researcher or at least his economy is is shambles and his lands are pillaged - he may still have a high score but he is doomed.
(A good example of this is Egypt - they alway seam to end up this way if they make it to the computer age with a good score.)
So with above in mind as time passes UU & buildings should get stronger to counter early start civs. - This can be tricky as soom civs play the game better - or should I say the fix is in. Some civs like the Americans want to build and research but are ganged up on by the other AI's, so their economy is lagging. Some civs are left alone to build - these always seam to be the same civs - so they buid while the other civs are at war - they require no additional help in later ages. I can only think of one militant civ that needs a little help, the Aztec genrally attack everybody and in most games, not all, they are way behind in tech. The Zulu are generally behind, but they play much better from that position and attack with purpose and always seam to be a powerhouse unless they had a real bad starting position. The Mongols have 2 sides, genghis khan - plays like the Aztecs and kubla khan who plays like the Greeks - attack early, then build -then attack en-mass.
Arlborn
Legendary Noob
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2006
- Messages
- 1,939
Plains for jungles? Beh! I do not think that is really realistic(I = Brazilian).
And consider yourself lucky you can even cross jungles in this mod!
Rhyes mod won't even let most of the units go through a jungle
About the UU's, I agree with you! And tomorrow(today?) I make something(finish) more specific! Then you tell me what you probably will find wrong ^^
no 3 city radius --I don't like that
And there are alot of links that make it crash...let me remember...a link to mech infantry from humvee was one. I'll write them down, but I have been shying away from the links as it takes to long to reload the game.
And there are alot of links that make it crash...let me remember...a link to mech infantry from humvee was one. I'll write them down, but I have been shying away from the links as it takes to long to reload the game.
Plains for jungles? Beh! I do not think that is really realistic(I = Brazilian).
And consider yourself lucky you can even cross jungles in this mod!
Rhyes mod won't even let most of the units go through a jungle
About the UU's, I agree with you! And tomorrow(today?) I make something(finish) more specific! Then you tell me what you probably will find wrong ^^
I'm talking about the soil under the jungle being poor soil.
So what your saying is your going to build that mod - Thanks!
With BTS your opponents tend to box you in quicker. If you get a bad start and your warrior and/or scout is killed quick or if your land is poor - whatever the reason for a poor start you may be doomed to a wasted 3 or 4 hours until a civ finishes you off.
Here’s the scenario:
You get off to a bad start.
You get boxed in early.
You go for chariots – no horses
You go for bronze – its close but your neighbor has it.
You get attacked and your land is pillaged your forced to poprush some archers.
(*note in BTS that AI doesn't pilage unless it has chariots - hopefully this will be fixed!)
You go for Iron – no iron!
2 hours wasted and you are behind on techs – lost your scout and warrior. Got pillage and had to poprush archers.
Now one of the “tips” from Firaxis is use archers if you don’t have access to bronze – they do a respectable job – well this is BS! I've Been their/done that – I have attacked with 10 archers against 2 – the bronze is normally on a hill and the AI builds right on top and that’s what you need, he’s starting to pump out axmen, so you attack, but you need lots of luck in most cases both units will survive.
Now if you’re playing a quick game on a standard map or smaller map you can go the research route an go for a Longbow attack.
But if you’re on a larger map you may get Longbows first but the AI has so many ax and sword it’s hopeless.
A lot of the time when you’re without bronze it will appear when you are attacked or after you lose one of your 4 cities - Great, but by then the damage is done and you’re doomed. I’ve stuck it out many times just to see if I could pull out a victory, I don’t know the exact numbers but it’s like 30 to 1.
So with that said it would be nice to have another option!
A linear dead end tech path that leads to improved bow!
No bronze, no horse – do I take a chance I’ll get iron or do I go for a bow attack?
You go for the bow:
Improved bow 1: Scythian Bow - 4 attack -50% city defense
Improved bow 2: Composite Bow - 5 attack -50% city defense
-50% city defense so you still need archers –
should cost slightly more than axmen so the AI doesn’t build them if it has bronze or iron.
Should be a melee units so you can’t upgrade it’s city defense.
Has no inherent bonuses so you need a lot to take a city – should be available early enough, before walls make an attack almost hopeless.
Hopefully the AI will know how to use this – but it’s not necessary. It’s for the human play
I know there’s the 4 attack sword option – but that’s a little to easy.
Here’s the scenario:
You get off to a bad start.
You get boxed in early.
You go for chariots – no horses
You go for bronze – its close but your neighbor has it.
You get attacked and your land is pillaged your forced to poprush some archers.
(*note in BTS that AI doesn't pilage unless it has chariots - hopefully this will be fixed!)
You go for Iron – no iron!
2 hours wasted and you are behind on techs – lost your scout and warrior. Got pillage and had to poprush archers.
Now one of the “tips” from Firaxis is use archers if you don’t have access to bronze – they do a respectable job – well this is BS! I've Been their/done that – I have attacked with 10 archers against 2 – the bronze is normally on a hill and the AI builds right on top and that’s what you need, he’s starting to pump out axmen, so you attack, but you need lots of luck in most cases both units will survive.
Now if you’re playing a quick game on a standard map or smaller map you can go the research route an go for a Longbow attack.
But if you’re on a larger map you may get Longbows first but the AI has so many ax and sword it’s hopeless.
A lot of the time when you’re without bronze it will appear when you are attacked or after you lose one of your 4 cities - Great, but by then the damage is done and you’re doomed. I’ve stuck it out many times just to see if I could pull out a victory, I don’t know the exact numbers but it’s like 30 to 1.
So with that said it would be nice to have another option!
A linear dead end tech path that leads to improved bow!
No bronze, no horse – do I take a chance I’ll get iron or do I go for a bow attack?
You go for the bow:
Improved bow 1: Scythian Bow - 4 attack -50% city defense
Improved bow 2: Composite Bow - 5 attack -50% city defense
-50% city defense so you still need archers –
should cost slightly more than axmen so the AI doesn’t build them if it has bronze or iron.
Should be a melee units so you can’t upgrade it’s city defense.
Has no inherent bonuses so you need a lot to take a city – should be available early enough, before walls make an attack almost hopeless.
Hopefully the AI will know how to use this – but it’s not necessary. It’s for the human play
I know there’s the 4 attack sword option – but that’s a little to easy.
Arlborn
Legendary Noob
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2006
- Messages
- 1,939
It sounds OK, but I don't know, really...Needs to be very well balanced!
And well, sometimes it is fun to go all on despair on an AI to get a resource! Or survive until an age without need for this resources!
But the overall idea is not bad.
Kalimakhus
Emperor
- Joined
- May 8, 2007
- Messages
- 1,249
@net55
I know that you ruled out the option of a short-swordsman but I still think it is a better answer for the problem you pointed out. I like the way this unit is used in Total Realism. It is designed precisely for two purposes. First early active defense against barbarians. I mean by active that you use them to attack barbarian units that enter you borders or get near them. The have city defense penalty so piling them inside a city is useless. They have a little city attack bonus so they are suitable for early and disparate resource grabbing which is their second purpose.
Now in TR they have the disadvantage of not being upgradeable to higher unit types on the main line. i.e. they don't upgrade to Swordsmen or Macemen. This is quite enough to make them used only if needed. No one will build a unit that is not upgradeable unless he needs it badly.
The idea of a dead end research path that only serves the purpose of getting some unit is not appealing to me. In fact if I am in such a bad position I will never distract my research effort to get a unit that may or may not succeed in getting me some resource I need. Beelining to Longbows will be a better risk to take. Actually Crossbow will be also a better solution with 50% against melee units they can fare well against axes and swordsmen provided that my opponent hasn't got macemen yet. (If he got them already he will be all over me by now).
Another path I might take is to beeline to construction and build as many cats as I can. With cats a good number of archers can take a city after sacrificing some cats to soften the defenders.
Anyway, my point is offering a solution through a dead end tech path can't be appealing to players who will prefer to stick to the main tech path and solve their problem using whatever units they can get through it.
I know that you ruled out the option of a short-swordsman but I still think it is a better answer for the problem you pointed out. I like the way this unit is used in Total Realism. It is designed precisely for two purposes. First early active defense against barbarians. I mean by active that you use them to attack barbarian units that enter you borders or get near them. The have city defense penalty so piling them inside a city is useless. They have a little city attack bonus so they are suitable for early and disparate resource grabbing which is their second purpose.
Now in TR they have the disadvantage of not being upgradeable to higher unit types on the main line. i.e. they don't upgrade to Swordsmen or Macemen. This is quite enough to make them used only if needed. No one will build a unit that is not upgradeable unless he needs it badly.
The idea of a dead end research path that only serves the purpose of getting some unit is not appealing to me. In fact if I am in such a bad position I will never distract my research effort to get a unit that may or may not succeed in getting me some resource I need. Beelining to Longbows will be a better risk to take. Actually Crossbow will be also a better solution with 50% against melee units they can fare well against axes and swordsmen provided that my opponent hasn't got macemen yet. (If he got them already he will be all over me by now).
Another path I might take is to beeline to construction and build as many cats as I can. With cats a good number of archers can take a city after sacrificing some cats to soften the defenders.
Anyway, my point is offering a solution through a dead end tech path can't be appealing to players who will prefer to stick to the main tech path and solve their problem using whatever units they can get through it.
wow boys,
alot of this balance ideas are interesting, and can add alot of fun,
also alot of work for me hehe.
i like the leaner tech tree thing, its really interesting, but it require thought on how to implement this one.
net,
itried to see link that ctds, but i could find any, i cheched the humvee mech thing, nothing happened,
where did you try to pree on it? in civlopedia during gameplay? main menu?
alot of this balance ideas are interesting, and can add alot of fun,
also alot of work for me hehe.
i like the leaner tech tree thing, its really interesting, but it require thought on how to implement this one.
net,
itried to see link that ctds, but i could find any, i cheched the humvee mech thing, nothing happened,
where did you try to pree on it? in civlopedia during gameplay? main menu?
Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
First of all, let me say, great mod. It's got a load of potential and I am really impressed with it.
Of course, there are a few bugs. One of the ones which has been bugging me nonstop is that all the corporation icons and Zoroastrianism and Shinto icons have been screwed up - that is, Zoro and Shinto have no icons in the city bar, and that moves everything down a notch.
It seems as though there's a list, and those two have been removed, thereby skewing the order of graphics. Zoro has Sushi and Shinto has Cereal - and all the other corporations have the wrong graphics (two of them don't have any graphics).
So I've been trying to fix it but no luck.
Anyway, I'd also like to say I love the new Civics, even if they need to be drastically rebalanced (a good expose on how is a few pages back by someone else). The more the merrier I say when it comes to civics, and there is definitely a wealth of them here.
Keep up the good work, and I'll continue looking at the corporations and religions and see if I can't find out what the trouble is.
Of course, there are a few bugs. One of the ones which has been bugging me nonstop is that all the corporation icons and Zoroastrianism and Shinto icons have been screwed up - that is, Zoro and Shinto have no icons in the city bar, and that moves everything down a notch.
It seems as though there's a list, and those two have been removed, thereby skewing the order of graphics. Zoro has Sushi and Shinto has Cereal - and all the other corporations have the wrong graphics (two of them don't have any graphics).
So I've been trying to fix it but no luck.
Anyway, I'd also like to say I love the new Civics, even if they need to be drastically rebalanced (a good expose on how is a few pages back by someone else). The more the merrier I say when it comes to civics, and there is definitely a wealth of them here.
Keep up the good work, and I'll continue looking at the corporations and religions and see if I can't find out what the trouble is.
hi crezth,
thank you, glad you like it.
yeah to this day, most of the reported stuff, ha been fixed for my next 1.5,
do it will be a whole different gameplay.
i like the civics too....
in one of the future versions, im gonna add more to each catagory.
the icons drive me nuts too......i tried to fix it by my own, without success either, i asked for help , but noone helped so far
.
if you pull it off ill be gratfull.
report on version v.15:
i have fiinished adding a 3 uu to all nations exactley accordig to nets list on page 11.
now i have to some more polish, then use arlborn report to furthur balance.
before v1.5 release, i wanna release as much balanced version as i can.
hopefully to this weekend
thank you, glad you like it.
yeah to this day, most of the reported stuff, ha been fixed for my next 1.5,
do it will be a whole different gameplay.
i like the civics too....
in one of the future versions, im gonna add more to each catagory.
the icons drive me nuts too......i tried to fix it by my own, without success either, i asked for help , but noone helped so far
.if you pull it off ill be gratfull.
report on version v.15:
i have fiinished adding a 3 uu to all nations exactley accordig to nets list on page 11.
now i have to some more polish, then use arlborn report to furthur balance.
before v1.5 release, i wanna release as much balanced version as i can.
hopefully to this weekend
Hmm, they may all be broken as the first 4 all crashed the game.
American humvee upgrades to mech inf
Austrian leopard armor upgrades to modern armor
Aztec jaguar upgrades to mace
Arab
Attachments
Everybody has their “pet peeves”.
One of mine is when you can’t build swordsman/ax –what do you do? – Build swordsmen!
Most of time I end up swapping this 4 attack unit out for a slinger or archer and changing the xml accordingly.
But even then it still seams like “cheating” because bronze provides a unit. So that's where my idea for linear branch of the tree for an improved bow cam in.
By the time you can get cats there are to many horse archers.
Feudalism is the best tech path (in my opinion) as it leads to better techs and you pick up hereditary rule along the way– having hereditary rule allows larger cities and larger cities means “poprushing” units is easier.
Thanks, I always play on aggressive AI and Monarch at the least - so it's almost impossible to survive when you have no resources- let alone come up with a win.
You should definitely incorporate modules and add you mod as module.
hey net,
there must be somthing wrong with the tests at your installed version,
mine is working fine.
try installing another folder of v1.4 and try it again if not tyr v1 3
but, as i said the pedia link works fine at my end.
there must be somthing wrong with the tests at your installed version,
mine is working fine.
try installing another folder of v1.4 and try it again if not tyr v1 3
but, as i said the pedia link works fine at my end.
This path to the required files does not exist - or a least it's not in the 1.4 download - so you will have no luck fixing the icons: Art/Interface/Buttons/religions/
Heres what a full path would look like:
C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\RiseOfMankind\Rise of Mankind\Assets\Art\interface\Buttons\religions
Hmm, tried both still crashed -so I checked vanilla:
It's the path that's scewing it up:
Goto units
click pikemen
click replaced by Landsknecht
works fine.
BUT
Goto Impi
then click icon for upgrades to pikemen
then click replaced by Landsknecht
Crash!
Maybe it's something I did...anybody else get this?
