Double Your Pleasure

[Kal-el]

Originally posted by RobO
The Hurry penalty was changed back to 20/20 in 1.21f
I suppose the mod is still based on 1.17f, so there could be more changes in 1.21 that have to be edited in manually.

Yeah it is, and I didn't even think to go through and check for discrepancies. Duh!

I suppose copper is required by other units than spearmen and/or some buildings and that's why it doesn't come with bronze working. Same with Iron.

Actually right now Copper is not required for Spearmen but it is required for Triremes (for the ram), Caravels, Galleons and Brigs (for their cannons). I made the metals available with mining so that you could see ahead of time where you would like to build your cities to get at that precious ore.

Why not make pearls appear with farming then? After all, you do need boats to harvest them.

This was my initial thinking, but I was talked out of it. Of course I could be talked back into it.

-------------------------------------------
Pesoloco,

Saw it, Love it!

 

[NightStorm]

Civilopedia entries may need to be checked. Some of them are EXTREMELY long, and the game does not seem to be putting a scroll bar in the description part, thereby causing a portion of the description to not be visible (extends below the bottom of the civilopedia box.)

 

[Richard IV]

I've only seen this happen when there is no Civ3mod.bic file in the \Civilization III\ folder - are you sure you extracted to the right path ?

The civ3mod.bic is in the right place... so i will now try uninstalling.

 

[NightStorm]

And finally (drumroll please)...after a long wait, the buildings-large.pcx and buildings-small.pcx files have been completed. They have been posted to the web site with the other file downloads. Also in this file are all of the buildings for DYP.

Extract buildings-large.pcx and buildings-small.pcx files to C:\Program Files\Infogrames Interactive\Civilization III\Art\City Screen\

Extract all the rest of the files to C:\Program Files\Infogrames Interactive\Civilization III\Art\Civilopedia\Icons\buildings\

Isak, I tried to email it to you buy your ISP wouldn't accept it. Can you get it off the web site and break it up for the non-broadband, modem bound people.

Enjoy Everyone!

[NOTE] Remember, this is only the first version of the buildings. The stats will be added to the buildings and units in a subsequent version, prior to the final release.

 

[Kal-el]

Great Job Nightstorm!!

Thanks a million.

So you say some of the entries are long?

There may have been a few that I got carried away with. But certain topics I felt merrited longer discussions. e.g. slavery, emancipation, civil rights. I think the SpecOps one is probably too long too. I haven't actually downloaded the mod from the site yet so I haven't seen the pedia entries. I am sure there are more than the ones I just mentioned. = sheepish grin

 

[Kal-el]

I could use some more input on the improvement and tech costs.

Regarding the improvement costs:
I put a poll on the main creation forum, go here to vote

Here are the options:
A: x1.25, x1.5, x2
B: x1.5 , x2 , x2.5
C: x1.25, x1.75, x2.25
D: Other

Science Costs will probably also be raised at the same rate as the building costs, unless people feel other wise. Go here to vote

Here are the options:
A: Fine as is
B: Same as Buildings
C: Other

right now I only have 2 votes in the buildings poll and 3 in the science poll

B is leading the way in both

 

[RobO]

Relax, Kal-el

We need to get a chance to play the thing before we can vote

 

[Kal-el]

ok, sorry

I just thought people might have an opinion based on previous versions of the mod.

I will try to be patient Its just that I am trying to get the finished version out as soon as I can. I don't mean to rush you guys.

Somebody stop me from thinking about this mod!!! Please!!!

 

[NightStorm]

Kal-el,

Ever think about re-doing the music. Just need to find someone who has figured out how the music files are broken up. I have several classical mp3's that would fit beautifully with this mod.

 

[asher274]

If playability and enjoyment are related to length of thread this mod should kick ass. You know its too bad I have an exam in 30 minutes...grad school is really impinging on my gameplay. Anyway, we download your mod and appreciate the time you spend on them.

cheers

 

[Victorvanwavere]

Kal-el,

Some Questions on DyP3,

I might be missing the bigger picture, but it seems like the required resources (Strategic Resources) are a little inconsistent.

* Riflemen need nothing but musketeer needs both saltpeter and iron.
* Some tanks need 2 resources others none.
* Ancient era ships need flax that only becomes available with crop rotation.

Was just wondering if this was by design?

 

[Kal-el]

Originally posted by Victorvanwavere
Kal-el,

Some Questions on DyP3,

I might be missing the bigger picture, but it seems like the required resources (Strategic Resources) are a little inconsistent.

* Riflemen need nothing but musketeer needs both saltpeter and iron.
* Some tanks need 2 resources others none.
* Ancient era ships need flax that only becomes available with crop rotation.

Was just wondering if this was by design?

Good point on the flax, that was a last minute adjustment, and was not initially going to be required for the early ships. Now I remember why.

The Riflemen don't require the same resources as the musketmen and arquebusiers because by that time in the game the resources are supposedly more plentiful. This is Firaxian logic and I am goin g along with it. This is the same reason that later ships do not require timber. It's not that the frigate is made out of some new polymer, but that the lumber industry has advanced to a stage where the resource has become less "strategic"

I will have to look at the tanks, which ones are you talkig about inparticular?

 

[RobO]

I have played a bit and found so far that food seems perhaps a bit abundant (except when you can't access any resources), research costs are too low and production costs seem OK. I had too much money, though. One reason is that I cannot set research higher than 60%, another is that the amount of commerce has been increased.

The following tables show the F/S/C provided by resources and terrain. I have also listed the appearance and disapperance numbers for resources and the F/S/C values for terrain from 1.21f

Btw, timber is missing from the resource list in readme v0.3

.................F S C App Dis
Strategic:
Horses.........- 0 0 1 160 0
Iron...........- 0 2 0 160 800
Saltpeter......- 0 0 2 120 800
Coal...........- 0 3 1 120 400
Oil............- 0 2 2 120 200
Rubber.........- 0 1 2 120 0
Aluminum.......- 0 2 1 120 400
Uranium........- 0 3 3 100 100
Timber.........- 0 1 1 the rest are 0 0
Flax...........- 1 1 1
Copper.........- 0 1 1
Marble.........- 0 1 1
Stone..........- 0 1 0
Elephants......- 2 0 2
Luxury:
Furs...........- 1 1 1
Gems...........- 0 1 4
Silks..........- 0 0 3
Spices.........- 1 0 2
Tobacco........- 0 0 3
Wine...........- 1 0 2
Coffee.........- 1 1 2
Incense........- 0 0 2
Bonus:
Game...........- 1 1 0 App and Dis cannot be set for bonus res.
Seal...........- 1 0 1
Cattle.........- 2 1 0
Sheep..........- 1 1 1
Wheat..........- 3 0 0
Corn...........- 3 0 0
Fruit..........- 2 0 0
Tropical Fruit.- 2 0 1
Fish...........- 2 0 1
Whales.........- 1 1 2
Pearls.........- 1 0 3
Oasis..........- 3 0 0
Silver.........- 0 1 3
Gold...........- 0 0 4

.............. F S C - Workd..21: F S C . Workd
Desert.......- 0 1 1 - 1 1 1......0 1 0 - 1 1 1
Plains.......- 2 1 0 - 1 1 1......1 1 0 - 1 1 1
Grassland....- 2 0 1 - 2 0 1......2 0 0 - 1 1 1
Tundra.......- 0 0 0 - 0 2 1......1 0 0 - 0 1 1
Flood Plain..- 4 0 0 - 2 0 1......3 0 0 - 1 0 1
Hills........- 1 2 1 - 1 2 1......1 1 0 - 0 2 1
Mountains....- 0 3 1 - 0 2 1......0 1 0 - 0 2 1
Forest.......- 1 1 1 - 0 1 1......1 2 0 - 0 0 1
Jungle.......- 2 1 0 - 0 2 1......1 0 0 - 0 0 1
Coast........- 2 0 2 - 0 0 0......1 0 2 - 0 0 0
Sea..........- 1 1 1 - 0 0 0......1 0 1 - 0 0 0
Ocean........- 0 0 0 - 0 0 0......0 0 0 - 0 0 0

This leads me to the following conclusions:

The appearence value should be set for all strategic resources. I did find them somewhat rare, and this should solve it. The editor help is somewhat obscure: It states that a value of 160 provides 2 resources per player in an 8 player game. I would go with 160 for all of them, as I gather they aren't supposed to be rare. The use of the disappearance value is a matter of preference. Set it to 0 if you want them to stay where they are (they don't disapper, they relocate).

I think there are too many resources that produce food. I think that Flax, Spices, Coffee and Pearls should be reduced to 0 food, while Elephants, Fruit and Tropical Fruit should be reduced to 1. Horses should on the other hand go up to 1 food, they are just as edible as elephants .

Copper is 0/1/1 while Iron is 0/2/0. Why the difference? There are more of these comparisons, but that may be nitpicking. Along similar lines, why do Gems provide one shield? Also, silver provides a shield but gold does not.

More importantly, the commerce values of terrain has been increased a lot and should be reduced again. This will also reduce the tech discovery rate and may offset some of the planned tech cost increase. At the very least Desert and Mountains should have 0 Commerce and preferably Hills as well. Grassland and Forests would probably be unbalanced without the commerce value. Forests could however be compensated by giving them 2 shields when mined.

The rest of the extra income would hopefully be consumed by extra upkeep - though probably not. These suggestions ought to help, though.

 

[RobO]

OK, here's a constructive minimal suggestion. My suggested values are listed to the right:

................ F S C -> F S C
Horses.........- 0 0 1 -> 1 0 1
Flax...........- 1 1 1 -> 0 1 1
Elephants......- 2 0 2 -> 1 0 2
Spices.........- 1 0 2 -> 0 0 2
Coffee.........- 1 1 2 -> 0 1 2
Tropical Fruit.- 2 0 1 -> 1 0 1
Pearls.........- 1 0 3 -> 0 0 3

................ F S C - Workd -> F S C - Workd
Desert.........- 0 1 1 - 1 1 1 -> 0 1 0 - 0 1 1 Why allow irrigation?
Hills..........- 1 2 1 - 1 2 1 -> 1 2 0 - 1 2 1
Mountains......- 0 3 1 - 0 2 1 -> 0 3 0 - 0 2 1
Forest.........- 1 1 1 - 0 1 1 -> 1 1 0 - 0 2 1
Jungle.........- 2 1 0 - 0 2 1 -> Not sure - it's actually better than Forest

 

[Kal-el]

I played a game last night and redid the resources, yet again.

I have adjusted the appearnace ratios and lowerd the commerce value for many of the terrains and the food value from grasslands and coasts.

here is a basic list of changes
Edit: Changed Plains to produce 2/1/0 (was 2/2/1) 1/1/1 with improvement
Edit: Changed Grassland to produce 2/0/1 (was 3/0/1) 2/0/1 with improvement
Edit: Changed Coast to produce 2/0/2 (was 3/0/1)
Edit: Entertainers only make one citizen happy (was 2 people)
Edit: Iron now becomes available with mining (as it was supposed to have been in v.0.3)
Edit: Pearls now available with Farming
Edit: Fixed Appearance/Disappearance rate for Resources
Edit: Fixed some issues with Units and Required Resources
Edit: Fixed some upgrade issues

you can get the 0.3.1 patch on the website

RobO,

these changes were done before I looked at you post, so check these out and then we'll discuss if there needs to be further changes. I would really like to get this part done and out of the way.

There's not much left to do for the mod. So once we get these little details out of the way, all that will be left is getting the civilopedia finished.

 

[NightStorm]

Originally posted by Kal-el
There's not much left to do for the mod. So once we get these little details out of the way, all that will be left is getting the civilopedia finished.

Don't you mean shortened!!

 

[Kal-el]

RobO,

I think you have a good point about reducing the output of the tiles, but I think you are mistaken about the bonus resources.

If the tiles are reduced then you definitely need the food bonuses or else your cities will starve. Try it. Without farming you need the food bonuses. So rather than less we may need more, probably not though.

I wish the AI was smarter about choosing where to build its cities. If it were this would be an easy thing to fix.

Nightstorm,

None of that lip from you. get back to work

 

[NightStorm]

Originally posted by Kal-el
Nightstorm,

None of that lip from you. get back to work

I'm on vacation for a few days!!

I haven't gotten to play the mod since v0.1, so I figure I've earned it!!

 

[Kal-el]

you have in deed

 

[NightStorm]

Shouldn't you be studying?!