Double Your Pleasure

[Dark_Magician]

Isak, I implied that quanitative differences between small and great become qualitative differences in a simplified, but well-working approach. In Denmark people understand this very well.

So, small and great had different options under imperialism I (this probably means you can't do it in Civ III, given restricted access).

Btw, Imperialism II was not too good, imo

 

[Isak]

Oh ok, that would be a bit harder. Giving different options like that is a bit hard in DyP - the best we would be able to do was provide different units, improvements, etc, but not really anything profound. Still it is a nice idea, and if I could figure out a way to at least simulate it, I would be in favor of trying it out - I'm just not sure it would be possible within the scope of DyP (and besides, I would have to convince Our Fearless Leader ).

And Imperialism 2 isn't bad, IMO - it definitely improves over Imperialism 1, though perhaps not as much as it should have, but certainly isn't a bad game. OTOH, I haven't really played it since I got involed in DyP....

 

[Curufinwe]

Should you run out of ideas of what buildings to cause lower happiness all production producing buildings would work. If you take the case of the Luddites the factories etc. temporarily made them lose jobs, and they got angry. What would be tantamount to a riot destroying prodcution buildings in civilization (the luddites destroyed, or at least damaged, several factories.) Also, something comparable to the luddites might be in anti-technology, allowing a few science buildings to lower happiness. Just a suggestion of course, I'd never be so arrogant to demand this, (and if I really desire it, use the editor of course) and if you already planned things similar to these I'm utterly sorry for making you waste your time reading this, if otherwise, all the better.

 

[brab]

Hi,

I'm about to start my first dyp game (installed using Civ3ModManager, which worked great), and I was looking at the add-ons and wondering: which ones work with 0.79.5 ? They're all 0.77 or 0.75 compatible, but are they compatible with the latest version of the mod ?

On a completely unrelated matter, I've noticed the dyp site is very very very slow ... If you want me to mirror some of the files on my web page, I'd be glad to (it has a fairly fast connection, you can see it here).

 

[RobO]

On the add-ons, the annotated build list is almost if not completely accurate. So are the wonder splashes.

You can check with the changelog.

 

[Isak]

Technically speaking, all three addons are compatible, but the Smiley Resources addon has unfortunately been based on the version of resources.pcx that had a slight graphic flaw - a purple square around the resources - but this is only visible in the editor, so it shouldn't be too much of a problem. And I'm sure RobO will update it soon

And yes, the site is very slow today (it seemed ok yesterday) - I think it may be due to an excessive amount of hits, but I'll ask Bernskov. And we may still get back to you on that hosting offer - thanks

Curufinwe: The production producing buildings will in fact almost all cause unhappiness in the next version of the mod. It doesn't make your post a waste of our time though, as it's always nice to hear people agree with our choices, even before they are effectuated About science buildings - well maybe - I Research Lab actually causes pollution currently, and I'm not really sure science should cause unhappiness. I'm sure the Pro-techies outnumber the Anti-techies by far, but it is still worth considering if we find that the above change is not enough to "take the mod off Prozac" so to speak.....

 

[brab]

About addons: I see the web site was updated, great response time

I played for about one hour, and here are the first impressions: the game seems to be less than a race, which feels great ... and I really like the need to specialize, and the difficulty to expand (in fact, the AI was ahead of me when I stopped playing, they seem to deal with the expansion phase fairly nicely).

A couple small bugs:
- the link from the sphinx to the sphinx riddle is broken (the link from the civilopedia list works, just the one in the sphinx is broken)
- I wasn't able to build any mine ... even though I had the technology (which is not so nice when rushing for stonehenge )

I'll play some more tomorrow (with the addons I'm downloading right now). I've been following this thread for a couple month, and you seem to deliver what you promise. Great job

 

[IXIRandyIXI]

There's something missing in the Middle Age time period...

And that is the Castle. The castle was actually the most popular way wars were for for quite a while, I believe during the Feudal/Middle Age. Instead of having the castle replace forts (I don't think they ever stuck castles out in the middle of nowhere, anyways), you could have it be another improvement that only increases defense, by, say, 75%. It would have a 2 or 3 gold upkeep, and last up until the city hits size 15, or become obsolete with the discovery of Metallurgy (when Cannons come around ). I'm not sure if you can do this with the editor yet, but we can always hope for it in PTW!

What do you think?

 

[IXIRandyIXI]

brab: Just saw your post. Were you trying to build mines on grassland? You can't build mines on grassland, if you were trying to.

 

[kingjoshi]

Castles sound cool! When I hear castles, I think the middle ages and monarchy. Kal-el said that the editor doesn't allow "one of the following" governments as a requirement, but only one or none. How about if we made multiple copies of the same improvement but for each entry, used a different government. I don't want to add on any work for you guys, especially with Kal-el having a bad time, but do you think that's doable?

All the entries could share the same icon, civilopedia entry, etc. Just that each one would require a different government. If you don't have time, I might mess around and see what happens, though I'm busy on a project right now.

 

[bshirt]

Dr Isak;

I've noticed w/ patch 1.29, it seems the AI is "much" more aggressive with developing (or maybe just crediting) its culture. Makes it a much more challenging game for me.

Have you noticed that? Maybe I'm just imagining it?

 

[Isak]

Castles are a cool idea - not sure if it is currently possible though - Kingjoshi's idea is great, but I don't think there is a way to make them go obsolete once a city hits size 15

Another thing we discovered about the defense value (one of the two land defense values, haven't had time to check which) is that it (whichever) is also the flag that tells the game to make the improvement go obsolete when the city hits size 7. That's why we had to remove defense value from the Palaces - the simply went obsolete otherwise (and you can imagine what that would do to corruption). So for the time being we don't really touch the defense flags.

Still, it's a good suggestion and will at least go in my book, hoping for more editing capability with PtW.

bshirt: I saw something on Apolyton after the chat friday, that Soren Johnson (AI Programmer) had made the AI more inclined to build Production producing buildings, but not anything about Culture. It may in fact just be our own DyP changes you are seeing the effect of (I assume you saw this while playing DyP..) - we made the AI Governors more focused on culture. In fact, we also increased the AI's inclination to build Production buildings so it will be interesting to see how that fares

 

[brab]

Randy: Oops, you're right, I remember reading that on the thread. Sorry about that. However, I don't remember seeing it when looking at the mining worker action civilopedia page. It might be useful to say it there.

 

[s2mo4]

I've also noticed in a few games post 1.29 that the AI seems to be playing a lot better. Now, I usually stop games around 1100 A.D., but I've noticed the development is better and unit deployment more sensible.

If there is going to be some more tinkering, I'd like to pass along a couple of comments.

First, I wish there was some intervening government form bridging despotism and monarchy. It also seems a bit strange to be able to get full fledged democracy benefits and skip over monarchy altogether. There were several well-managed imperial systems even as far back as 500 B.C.

Second, more of a wish than something possible, but it would be great to have empires potentially decline and break up (a la the civil war disruption in civ2).

Anyway, dyp seems to play even better now under 1.29 than before.

 

[RobO]

Thanks, s2m04. Every bit of praise helps raise our spirits

I'm pleased to inform you that we're dealing with the government issue you are raising

In the next patch (coming soon we hope) Democracy will be a bit weaker and Despotism a bit stronger. In the long run we will introduce a new starting government and delay Despotism a bit, and all these effects combined should make Despotism viable until somewhat late in the game, where you will have a need for the higher worker rate and rate cap of the newer governments.

Having empires decline is - I think - not within the scope of Civ3.

 

[sudduth28]

I am so completely confused at the moment. I completed a mini-mod of sorts, with my civ as a modifed England, and some new improvements (a brothel for one...hehehe) and a wonder. However, when I go to load my scenario (and I have reinstalled civiii, all patches and all DyP patches in order), I get this response before the game even boots up:

LOAD ERROR

ERROR READING FILE

Missing entry in text\Pedialcons.txt": ICON_

This error came up before I reinstalled everything, and still seems to be there with my scenario. If I do a new game start with DyP, everything runs completely fine. *SIGH*

If there is ANYONE who can help me, I'd so appreciate it. Even tho the scenario is obviously slanted to give me an advantage (hey, I'm in grad school, if I dont win I get pouty ), I'd still like to be able to play it.

so...there you go...a big cry for help.

oh, and by the way, this is the most comprehensive, AMAZING mod on here (or appolyton)....I hope to modify some parts of it for a complete medieval/fantasy mod I am making based on George R. R. Martin's Song of Fire and Ice series. Kal-el, Isak, and RobO you all ROCK!

thank you in advace for any help....*bows* S28

here's my .bic for my scenario....

 

[Dark_Magician]

Originally posted by s2mo4
First, I wish there was some intervening government form bridging despotism and monarchy. It also seems a bit strange to be able to get full fledged democracy benefits and skip over monarchy altogether. There were several well-managed imperial systems even as far back as 500 B.C.

democracy is defenitely very old form of governance, as we could read in Plato's "Politicus", where rule of one - monarhy, rule of few - aristocracy/oligarhy, rule of all - democracy.
Empire is just a form of monarhy, imo

 

[Isak]

Originally posted by RobO
Having empires decline is - I think - not within the scope of Civ3.

I will gladly hand out tips on how to let your own empire decline though - if you're interested

Sudduth28: I will not comment on the changes you have made. I'm taking the same stance as when people call me at the ISP hotline where I work, and ask me to help them remove ...erm... unwanted dialers..and simply pretend I do not know what you're talking about

The fix should be attached below - with Patch 1.29f, you have to fill out All "civilopedia entry" boxes, otherwise the game refuses to load, so I filled them out for the 3 buildings you added. Then you have to add an entry to the Pediaicons.txt for each one too. Check it out, I have added them at the bottom of the Buildings section.

Looking forward to seeing your scenario (especially if it contains more of the same ) Any questions just email me and I'll be happy to help you out.

Re: Democracy - Dark_Magician is right - it is the ancient form of democracy practised in Greece which we are trying to depict.

 

[s2mo4]

Re democracy...ancient yes, but only as applied to a city state and not a full scale empire. Heck, even the Roman Republic (with an active and empowered Senate) in its high time did not include all of Italy even.

It has to strike you as odd that the full empire wide benefits of democracy (which will work into late stages of the game) are available very very early.

 

[bshirt]

Dr Isak;

Aha!

Yes, as you assumed, of course I'm playing DYP. I had no idea that you guys tweaked up the AI governer so I "thought" it must have been the 1.29 patch.

Wrong again.

Honestly, I think you and your team has hit upon a gold mine. At the Monarch level, playing as the Egyptions, I usually would get the Big Ben & Hoover Dam wonders way over 50% of the time.

Since your last patch (7.95), I don't even get close. Also, the AI's civ culture is a very big threat to me, especially in the early to mid game, where as before it almost never was.

To me, this makes the game a lot more challenging and fun. I won't be "bored" with Civ3/DYP for some time, that's for sure.

Not trying to blow smoke here, but....great job!