Doughnut Files - Term 6

@GW - I like the idea of shutting KISS out of trades, but I'm hesitant to believe it is feasible. It really comes down to what we would have to give up to Dnuts for them to be willing. On one hand, it could be likely because it would practically guarantee that KISS would go down quickly (once we all teamed up against them) but where would Dnuts go from there? We'd be at an advantage since all of KISS's land is on our continent, would we agree to help Dnuts take out TNT then - leaving us to duke it out in the end?

@Peter - the concept of us claiming the final silk is intriguing, but I doubt it would be worth the effort. How would we react to getting all excited about it, putting a party on a ship, sailing over there, landing, and marching over to the silk only to have Dnuts beat us there by a turn or 2? Where would we go from there? What good would a city be on their continent without the lux? It seems it would be a bit of a liability to defend. Bottom line: I like the idea but you'll have to provide a great backup plan to convince me.
 
For me, the bottom line is we can't settle on the other continent – especially on the Luxuries, unless...

1) Dnuts AND TNT both explicitly agree to let us do it. (Hard to imagine)
- or -
2) We're prepared to start a war, when they react violently to our encroachment.

#1 seems really unlikely, and as for #2 – if we're going to start a war, it's probably better to wait 50 turns, then start a war with KISS. (Or, sign a second 50 turn peace deal with KISS, and then do a joint attack with TNT on the Dnuts)
 
Wimp.


This discussion is leading me to believe that the best course of action is for TNT and MIA to restrict trade with DNUT/KISS as much as possible. By keeping our techs out of their hands, we'll be able to slowly pull further ahead. By limiting trade to luxuries, we'll be able to ascertain whether or not MIA and TNT will benefit more from the exchange than DNUT or TNT.

We should not enter into a trade in which the costs and benefits are only equal: We (MIA and TNT) should only enact trades with KISS and DNUTs in which we benfit more than the others.

It seems obvious, but I think it's the sole realistic way to keep pulling ahead of the non-scientific civs.
 
How about this

Dear Nobody

Congratulations about the recent issue of the Doughnutian Gazette, we found your account of our trade deal especially amusing.

We notice that a galley of yours has suddenly and unexpectedly appeared outside of Ithaca, the citizens have only just settled down after their initial shock and the militia stood down. Could you perhaps send advance notice in future? This would be most appreciated and also polite.

Just wondering if we can assist you in anyway? Perhaps help to unload some excess ballast ... ummm ... vintage ballast ;)

Anyway if you require an area to stretch your legs, we welcome you to do so :yup: ... Ohhh with the previso that you respect our borders as we have and continue to respect yours.


Yours sincerely

Feaurius III
MIA Foreign Minister
Click to expand...
 
Regarding us ... we didn't end up it their territory but ... better to not be antagonistic :D

Dear Nobody

Congratulations about the recent issue of the Doughnutian Gazette, we found your account of our trade deal especially amusing. :clap:

Now ro business, we notice that a galley of yours has suddenly and unexpectedly appeared outside of Ithaca, the situation almost caused a general state of alarm to break out, it took some time to calm the citizenship and the militia has been stood down. Due to the current state of tenseness that MIA find themselves in, could you perhaps send advance notice in future? Our people are jumpy and uneasy due to the situation with KISS.

Just wondering the reason for the voyage, can assist you in anyway? Perhaps help to unload some excess ballast ... ummm ... vintage ballast ;)

Anyway if you require an area to stretch your legs, we welcome you to do so :yup: ... Ohhh with the proviso that you respect our borders as we have and continue to respect yours.


Yours sincerely

Feaurius III
MIA Foreign Minister
Click to expand...

Sent to Nut's g-mail and PM to Nobody.
 
Nobody said:
Hail Feaurius III

We have you shipment of 29000 Doughnuts and 40000 cases of Red Wine here for delivery. What you say you didn’t order them? I had the contact details right here: Foreign Affairs Minister Whomp MIA. Is this some sort of Prank? Who’s going to pay the delivery fee? Ahh forget it, we will just dump them in the sea and sail around abit.

While we are here I would like to formally apologies for the undeclared intrusion of our delivery ship. We just plum forgot to tell you. It wont happen again.

Regards

Nobotti Nobodazine

Foreign Affairs Minister
DOUGHNUTIA
Click to expand...


Comedic approach to counter faux par :)
 
I guess this one doesn't need to be vetted ... and hopefully won't start a war :lol:

Title ... Doughnut Wanderings
Dear Nobody

We notice that Explorer, a fellow traveller has unloaded on the Green Continent, by the looks of him he is one who has experienced the terror and glory of war. We hope that he enjoys our fresh air and rest assured he will be made welcome by our citizens.

But beware that this continent, as yours, is still untamed and that if he continues west he will encounter a nest of savages. Please do not be alarmed, we have the situation under control and are in the process of drawing lots among our soldiery as to whom gets the honour of ridding this menace from our lands.

Feel free to wander anywhere that you wish, as long as you respect our borders we will extend the same curtesies as you have our traveller.

Yours sincerely

Feaurius III
MIA Foreign Minister
Click to expand...

Sent to nobody and Nut's g-mail
 
Chatted with Robi_D

RobiD77: hi fe, how's it going
fe3333au: tough ... with our neighbours ;)
fe3333au: how you
RobiD77: not too bad, just busy with work, as usual
fe3333au: well it does pay for beer
RobiD77: hehe

Explorer is on peacefull mission
RobiD77: sorry about the unannouced warrior, that kind of thing would have never happen in my day
fe3333au: that's ok ... as long as he respects the borders and any instructions ... he is welcome
RobiD77: he will
fe3333au: :D ... so do we

Barbarians around
fe3333au: so you got barbs still?
RobiD77: no not really, with expanding borders and so free units wondering around they are under control now

Peace time for Nuts
fe3333au: enjoying the peace?
RobiD77: yeah, although its not as exciting
fe3333au: lol
RobiD77: instead of worring about troop positions, we worry about gold expenditure

Anything of interest in the north?
fe3333au: we will soon be heading north to check out what TNT are upto
fe3333au: any instructions which may fill you in on their developments?
RobiD77: we pretty much can see what there up to, which is trying to get as much land in the netural zone as possible
fe3333au: is that confrontational?
RobiD77: a little i guess, but we arn't to bothered by it, as they have a lot of isolated outposts they could easily lose if relations went south again

What their thoughts on the Silk grab by TNT
fe3333au: so things are good or tense between TNT and Nuts?
RobiD77: still tense, but they are on the way down slowly
fe3333au: so are there rules for your peace?
RobiD77: neither of us goes past the jungle into each others areas, the jungles netural
fe3333au: so planting a city in jungle is a violation ... or can you do it as well?
RobiD77: no, anyone can plant a city in the jungle, just they have been i little over eager, but thats not bothering us too much because that can be made to work against them, both by peaceful and less peaceful means
fe3333au: I understand :) ... so is there a time limit on your peace ... or is it open to re-negotiation later down the track?
RobiD77: its the standard 20 turns, after which we can negotiate about the rules, maybe relax them a bit

Peace time frame
fe3333au: How long to go?
RobiD77: ummm, good question :)
RobiD77: about 8 turns i think
fe3333au: We had similar time frames with KISS ... and it gets tense near the ending turn
RobiD77: well i don't think thats going to happen with us, switch to republic has been difficult
RobiD77: brb

RobiD77: sorry about that, im still at work :-(

Fishing for KISS relationship details
fe3333au: no worries
fe3333au: so are the spices good ;)
RobiD77: i though you sent us ivory?
fe3333au: yes we did ... you got them from KISS
RobiD77: oh, have we worked out a deal with them, that would be bloody right, i'm the internal minster and i have to find out through you whats going on :D
RobiD77: although i must say i have had a lot of time recently to stay up to date on everything
fe3333au: OK ... so the above statement should have been you have been too busy to keep upto date?
RobiD77: yes, oops

fe3333au: I assume you got them from KISS, as I thought that was a lux only availbale on the Green Continent
RobiD77: we got them for kiss, however last time i saw we were still negotiating the price ... nobody or kuningas must have sealed the deal then

New Edition soon for the news stands
RobiD77: well at least i have some news for the next edition of the DG
fe3333au: I like the UN newspapers
RobiD77: i take full responsibility for the off beat sense of humour in ours
fe3333au: LOL
RobiD77: including the ivory joke

Technology traded with KISS is it open for us?
fe3333au: So just so I know not to waste time on future proposals ... any tech trading with KISS is not available to others to negotiate for?
RobiD77: no, we are free to trade swaped techs, has someone said otherwise
fe3333au: no I know nothing of your dealings with KISS, I am just going from past discussions with KISS
RobiD77: well as far as the deals we have made, the agreement is we can peddle or own techs freely, however purchaed techs have a cooling off period of 10 turns, before they can be traded on.

Nuts researched Monarchy and KISS researched Engineering
RobiD77: so if your interested in monarchy, we can make a deal
fe3333au: any MA techs on the table yet?
RobiD77: not at the moment, we will have monotheism soon
fe3333au: good to know ... we may well be interested
RobiD77: apart from that, we can trade you engineering at a later date, as per our agreement with KISS, but its been a little slow with the switch to republic, we are only starting to get up to speed now
fe3333au: Nice let us know when available maybe couple turns in advance so we can maybe start talks
RobiD77: sure, i'll put this on the forum so nobady and kuningas are aware of it too
fe3333au: good

Confidentiality Clause
fe3333au: I would hope that these talks between us are kept between us
RobiD77: sure thing
fe3333au: spit and shake? ... my term for gentleman's agreement?
RobiD77: consider it spat and shaken ;)

MIA and KISS
RobiD77: so have kiss continued to be nice
fe3333au: So since you have open discussions with KISS, any comments about us? I ask this cos things are hot and cold which is very confusing
RobiD77: no real specifics really, but i guess we have you guys to thank for their more open attitude with us. They are worried about the military build up, but from everything they have said to us they have not meantioned about going on the offensive
fe3333au: we have to define a border where no team can cross ... very difficult because everything needs to be written cos no map swapping allowed :( ... if you ever need to do this I would be happy to sent you instructions which make the process easier
RobiD77: well TNT and and us kept it simple, therefore there wasn't too many problems
fe3333au: I wish it was simple for us ... we even had people counting tiles LOL
RobiD77: hehe
RobiD77: we just used the jungle

MIA and TNT
fe3333au: Things are quiet with TNT ... I guess they are still trying to recover from the war
RobiD77: yeah, there no real communication, so things are still a little frosty, but were just going about our own buisness. We have the military edge of them so we are not worried if they want to attack, we happy to leave that for them to do
fe3333au: So the ball in their court if they want to be foolish
RobiD77: pretty much, but they have been smart enough not to

KISS aware of 'Explorer' ??
fe3333au: Do KISS know that you have landed on the Green Continent?
RobiD77: no i don't think so, but they will find out soon enough i suppose
fe3333au: They have units positioned in strategic places
RobiD77: although we will be staying on your end for the moment, i read in their newspaper the beer's dried up at their end
fe3333au: but at the moment 'Explorer' would be invisible to them

< We have plenty of alcohol >
fe3333au: LOL ... we have beer ... and a nice supply of wines now ;)
RobiD77: hehe, thats why we came over, to join in the party

'Explorer' elited by interacting with the Barbs
RobiD77: you should remember the warrior, he was on the hill when you guys went past ... he is elite now thanks to hoards of barbs trying to kill him
fe3333au: which warrior?
RobiD77: the one at your border
fe3333au: yes I noticed he had battle experience

About the Wines
fe3333au: you may like to pass this on to nobody, but the last gift of wines all broke when they were delivered to the Foreign Offices ... and the other government ministers didn't get a chance to taste that lovely vintage
RobiD77: broke eh? well i'll tell him to send another batch
fe3333au: I'll try to arrange that the same staffer is on the front desk ;)
RobiD77: hehe
fe3333au: he is soo clumsy ... sometimes I wonder why he was hired LOL
RobiD77: quite a mystery ;)

Any other Business?
fe3333au: so any questions I may be able to answer?
RobiD77: ummm, not at the moment, i actually better get back to work so i can get out of here sometime soon. We will be in touch about the trades when they come up, and keep an eye out for DG edition 4, it'll be out next week

<Spoke of cIV ... he is in Aloah>
Click to expand...
 
:goodjob:

Awesome work again Fe!
Some GREAT tid-bits in there.

In my mind, this makes the case for peace even stronger. It looks like we don't have as much to worry about regarding a joint KISS/Nuts attack on TNT. Dnuts appear to just be happy to build and get their republic really working.

Of course, Robi doesn&#8217;t appear to be 100% in the loop&#8230; but I suspect he would know if the team was leaning towards attacking TNT anytime soon.

I'd much rather see KISS and TNT fight a war, than see MIA and KISS fight a war.

Also &#8211; worth noting that the Nuts don't have any kind of exclusive trade deal with KISS&#8230; and they are researching more peaceful techs. This blunts the value of the Great Library&#8230; but also means we don't have as much to fear from a doomsday cavalry attack scenario like Chamnix mentioned. (still a possibility&#8230; but KISS will apparently be researching there on their own if they try it.)

EDIT: KISS has obviously proved less adept at diplomacy than we give them credit for... although, in hindsight... this should have been obvious.
 
Just to start talking about how we will keep DNUT's from attacking TNT, I'm bumping this thread.

We know that there was the possible extension for 5 turns of their limited peace. We need to make sure that DNUTs sign something more than that. Maybe we should tell them of our peace with KISS, and how pleasant we feel being totally secure for dozens and dozens of turns?

Hail, Doughnuts!
We have heard the news of the pending war in the north, and we are feel very sorry for your beleaguered continent. MIA feels priviledged to share our peaceful continent with KISS, who, though not perfect neighbors, at least value peace as much as we do.

So we write to you to discuss the war in your north. We want no part of that nasty business, as we are very focussed on internal matters now. Will you be taking part in the aggression, or will you spend the near future solidifying your gains from the last round?

blah, blah, blah
Click to expand...

Okay, I know it's a crap letter... I'm just trying to get us thinking about how to play this. I'm NOT advocating sending anything like what i just wrote.
 
I think we have Buckley's chance ... it will too easy for them to finish the job that Provo started :(


I don't know how to approach it either ...
> Do we want to give the other teams information on just how close we are to TNT?
> Does it matter if we do?

I'm torn about how to proceed.

On an aside ... when perusing the
Doughnut Gazette I notice they are confidently going for Collossus ... wonder who will win the build race :lol: ... If we do, will they swap to GL?

Questions Questions Questions :crazyeye:
 
I saw that bit about the Colossus. But at the time, I hadn't yet checked our SotE117, so I didn't know if we had broadcast to the world that we were building it. I assumed we had already made the announcement, and that the DNUT reference was an April Fool's joke or just simply propaganda.

Should we be worried? It all depends on their shields/turn in the city in which they are building it. If it's not in their capital, they could have masked construction longer than we did, so they could already be ahead :eek:

EDIT: just checked the Springfield screenie. At current size, they coudl get around 16 spt.
 
So much going on all of a sudden!!

I'm not worried at all about losing the Colossus. It wouldn't make much sense for the Nuts to build it in a city other than their capitol&#8230; and our SPT in Athens is so huge, I just can't imagine them beating us.

Bigger problem is what they will switch too. Great Library? Unfortunately, that seems likely&#8230; but maybe this will be the final motivation we need to gear up to attack the Dnuts?

In the meantime, I don't see a lot of point in talking to/threatening the Nutters until we've talked with TNT about what they are willing to offer the Nuts for peace.
If TNT will go along with the idea of giving cities for peace &#8211; then hopefully we won't even have to get involved&#8230; TNT can just negotiate peace on their own. Let TNT send the veiled threats that MIA may attack Dnuts if the Nuts go to war. That helps us hide our relationship with TNT, and isn't nearly as diplomatically ham-handed.

That's my 2 cents anyway.
 
I started this before I saw GW's post, but this is what I was thinking:

Hail, Doughnuts!
We have heard the news of the pending war in the north, and we are feeling very sorry for your beleaguered continent. MIA feels privileged to have been at peace the entire game so far and had the opportunity to build a booming civilization.

We write to you to discuss the war in your north. We would prefer to have no part of that nasty business as war helps nobody. We sincerely hope that you will manage to keep yourselves from becoming embroiled in that conflict. We would prefer not to see KISS being successful in their overseas campaign and feel certain that your involvement against TNT would assure KISS&#8217; victory. We are considering how we can help TNT, but since we have a peace deal with KISS, our options are limited.

We believe you can use this opportunity to wring a long-term peace treaty from TNT on terms very favorable to Doughnutia. In so doing, you will be able to expand peacefully while TNT is at war and grab the bulk of your continent and build infrastructure to help you for the future. We encourage you to take advantage of this golden opportunity so that our southern hemisphere can remain at peace and grow at the expense of the north.
Click to expand...

I'm also not concerned at all about the Colossus - if someone beats us to it, there are plenty of other good wonders available.
 
hmmm.... I actually REALLY like the tone of Chamnix's proposed letter.

It's quite brilliant in places, imho.

I especially love this part...
We are considering how we can help TNT, but since we have a peace deal with KISS, our options are limited.
Click to expand...
:clap: :evil:
Read between the lines Dnuts!!

Anyway - I'd support sending that asap.
 
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