Doughnut Files - Term 6

[fe3333au]

We have time ... I'm tired and sent TNT letter off.

Are we sure we want to send the line that Gen_W highlighted?

I'm lothe to give too much hints about our continued friendship with TNT ... it has not been confirmed and still won't even with the Engineering trade.

But ... I'm also in two minds ... it's a hard one to know how exactly to act

I will send something off ... promise ... tomorrow ... or should I say later today

 

[fe3333au]

maybe something about

We here at MIA are eager to see what will happen, will you join with KISS and wipe TNT from the face of the game ... blah blah ... and give KISS an advantage of massive expansion.

or will you use the opportunity to continue the peace and get TNT to grant you territorial and perhaps city concessions with the threat of a two fronted war?

blah blah type of thing.

 

[Chamnix]

They are supposed to read it as us really disliking KISS as opposed to being close to TNT. The enemy of our enemy.... Maybe a little extra emphasis?

Hail, Doughnuts!
We have heard the news of the pending war in the north, and we are feeling very sorry for your beleaguered continent. MIA feels privileged to have been at peace the entire game so far and had the opportunity to build a booming civilization.

We write to you to discuss the war in your north. We would prefer to have no part of that nasty business as war helps nobody. We sincerely hope that you will manage to keep yourselves from becoming embroiled in that conflict. We would prefer not to see KISS being successful in their overseas campaign and feel certain that your involvement against TNT would assure KISS’ victory. We are considering how we can help TNT against our mortal enemy, but since we foolishly just signed a peace deal with KISS, our options are limited.

We believe you can use this opportunity to wring a long-term peace treaty from TNT on terms very favorable to Doughnutia. In so doing, you will be able to expand peacefully while TNT is at war and grab the bulk of your continent and build infrastructure to help you for the future. We encourage you to take advantage of this golden opportunity so that our southern hemisphere can remain at peace and grow at the expense of the north.

 

[fe3333au]

They got Feudalism from KISS

 

[fe3333au]

Chatting to Robi

RobiD77: hi fe, hows it going
fe3333au: ok ... how are you?
RobiD77: pretty good, just having a bit of a look around on the net before hitting the sack,

Excellent timing Robi
fe3333au: so you guys going to join KISS or get easy concessions from TNT in return for not attacking?
RobiD77: i don't know, their is a bit of a debate going on in doughnutia about what to do, but i must say it was a complete surprise to us
fe3333au: KISS attacking? ... You didn't know?
RobiD77: yeah, we didn't have a clue until donsig ask to put an ad in the DG for a sightly used library they are selling

April Fools
RobiD77: at first i thought it was an april fools things
fe3333au: I too though April Fool's ... well planned by KISS kudos to them

TNT contacted Nuts for help ... why not tell us
RobiD77: hehe, so has TNT contacted you guys about helping them?
fe3333au: general request but due to date I requested confirmation ... it came ... so we discussing what to do
RobiD77: they sent a letter to us asking for help, they must be suffering some for of memory loss about the 60 turn war we have after they attacked us for no reason
fe3333au: We have peace deal with KISS and therefore cannot do anything

KISS action in their patch... Start Planting Seeds of Doubt
fe3333au: What do you think about KISS expanding onto your continent?
RobiD77: we are not to bother as we have a good relationship with them plus we don't really mind TNT losing a city. Personally i think this isn't a long term campaign, they expessed a long time ago the desire to get tnt's furs and i believe that's what this is about, just taking advantage of tnt's military weakness to get the furs. By the way i though your agreement with kiss ended, was it extended?
fe3333au: we almost went to war ... took over 10 turns but we managed to create a border using only descriptions (landmarkes, tile lengths and compass settings)
RobiD77: i see, so how long does it go for if you don't mind me asking
fe3333au: for a half century

:confusion: TNT and Nuts have Peace???
RobiD77: well we still have an agreement with tnt for another 7 turns so nothing will be happening until then
fe3333au: really?
RobiD77: yeah we agreed to any extension while we worked out a new deal, then a couple turns later kiss attack, which made our hawks upset
fe3333au: Who are your hawks?
RobiD77: Nobody would have to be the number one, but there are a couple of other

KISS free to act then... Seed 1
fe3333au: Well in that case KISS is free to do what they want to TNT ... there goes your neighborhood LOL
RobiD77: hehe, even if we didn't have one, we arn't really in a position for an offensive war, it taken us all this time to get on top of the crippling unit costs and get some improvements in the cities, so to go to war now in my opinion would be a bad idea.
RobiD77: so all in all kiss chose the perfect time to attack

Tech study and Trade
fe3333au: When will you complete Mono? must be soon now ... I guess Feudalism is sent early under the condition you give to KISS when you get it?
RobiD77: Mono is about 7 turns away, its been a slow and painfull process get everything under the republic going. Are you guys still interested in mono
fe3333au: we already got it
RobiD77: ah ok, i can't remember but do you have monarchy
fe3333au: no
RobiD77: well if your ever interested you know who to call
fe3333au: so you giving KISS mono LOL
RobiD77: yes, thats the agreement

Nut internal Debate
fe3333au: So you mentioned a debate about the TNT vs KISS war
RobiD77: the debate is whether to get involved in the war or leave things be
fe3333au: is it three way debate ... or only two options? ... Watch ... Join KISS ... Join TNT
RobiD77: it would be so much joining kiss as it would be taking advantage of the situation ... No ones talking about joining tnt

<KISS' Agri Trait reminder> ... Seed 2
fe3333au: I'd be wary of KISS ... agri trait make them fast expanders

RobiD77: Basically the more hawkish want to go out and take a few cities when the peace deal ends, or sit back and carry on doing what we are doing
fe3333au: What? ... Break a Treaty???
RobiD77: I'm in favour of the latter, not because i have any fondness for tnt, but because its been difficult change over to republic and getting peacful growth going, to go back to war now would be difficult
RobiD77: no after the treaty ends

<KISS' Trait and Personality> ... Seed 3
fe3333au: Just watch out is what I advise ... new MIA saying ... give KISS an inch and they take a mile
RobiD77: well its not ours to give really, thats up to tnt, we can't do much. I guess if i'm wrong and they are lauching an all out assault then we would definately have to go and take some towns if only to stop them expanding to far, but as i said earlier i think this is a smash and grab operation to control tnt's furs

Strange Reasoning from KISS ... Seed 4
fe3333au: But they have their own source of furs ... we all do !!!
RobiD77: i know, but they said they wanted it when we first met them, maybe that way they can get some resource from from tnt for free ... we'll trade you the fur you previously owned for some ivory or something like thaT
fe3333au: The argument doesn't ring true for me ... it sounds very KISSish LOL

<History of Dyes> ... Seed 5
fe3333au: They are not being honest with you as to the reason ... just be on your guard ... they have done this to us ... that is why we have no extra dyes to trade

The Celebrity of Feaurius III
RobiD77: btw, i just had a thought, would you mind being interviewed for the next DG edition?
fe3333au: not at all ... I'd be honoured ... but if it is about my cousin ... NO COMMENT
RobiD77: hehe, excellent, i'll have to think up some questions then, nothing to intensive ... i'll pm them to you when my twisted mind has come up with them
fe3333au: I'll look forward to the questions

<Remember, actions speak louder than words> ... Seed 6
fe3333au: just take heed of my warning if KISS start building cities without requesting first ... that is a sign for you to get susspicious of their motives
RobiD77: ok i will ... we have already placed our troops on alert so we can move quickly if the situation is not favourable

<Just how good is a KISS friendship?> ... Seed 7
fe3333au: A trusted friend would have mentioned things before acting !!!
RobiD77: yes, well like you said they picked a very good moment, they have a long peace deal with you guys, a tech swap with us, plus we aren't in a position to wage a major war and tnt is also poor militarily so they wont offer much resistance in losing a city or two
fe3333au: true ...

MIA attack TNT?
RobiD77: btw have you guys though about attacking tnt, i mean if they are going to fall then you might as well grab some territory for yourself
fe3333au: You won't believe it but we are peacefull LOL ... We going to try and wring the most out of a peacefull existence ...before KISS turn their eyes on us again
RobiD77: well you migh want to think about it, because if kiis do go for the kill we wont be able to take a lot of territory off tnt for ourselves

Act as if we hadn't considered
fe3333au: We will begin discussing ... good point ... but we are sooo far away from TNT
RobiD77: a little, but there western forntiers is pretty empty so you could probably place a city or two without a fight
fe3333au: Would you not see it as an aggressive action if we started claiming land and possible resources in your continent?
RobiD77: if its in tnt territory (ie the northern half) i doubt anyone would really care, especially if kiss goes for the kill and tnt collapses. I suppose both of us are probably looking at a wait and see approach atm.
fe3333au: Well for us this is true and we have domestic considerations at home ... TNT land is too far away

About the goings on up North
RobiD77: hmmm, well it should be an interesting fight, tnt have been exclusivly punping out pikes since the war ended with us ... very effective for use against MW's, not sure how they will go against gallics

<Final Warning> ... Seed 8 ... now it's a crop
fe3333au: I hope they have ... I too don't trust TNT, but if the extinction of TNT means that KISS get an easy advantage ... I think I prefer TNT still around LOL
RobiD77: hehe

Robi plans on stepping down ... will see what happens
RobiD77: well in a few turns i'll be out of government so it will be other peoples headache
RobiD77: i can just be a back seat driver
fe3333au: but one who has influence .. no
RobiD77: well, i am taking the expresso machine with me
fe3333au: LOL
RobiD77: and a large quantity of doughnuts
fe3333au: I got a stash of vintage Nut wines ;-)
RobiD77: hehe me too
RobiD77: i'll still add some input but its a demo game and i've spent a long time calling the shots so i'm happy for other people to do that

fe3333au: so Nuts have more active players now?
RobiD77: less actually ... we got back up to 7 active and 5 semi active, but now its down to 4 and 4
fe3333au: We stable ... But I was sick and needed tean to do clerical LOL ... They rallied well

Therefore according to this (and if it is to be believed)
> KISS acted unilaterally
> TNT have approached Nuts for help ... and not told us.

 

[gbno1fan]

Good chat, fe.

I note a couple of things:

1. If Nuts attacks TNT at the end of their peace deal (7 turns), then I believe our best opportunity to attack Nuts falls about 10-15 turns from now. We need to decide if we are going to take this route soon, and if we do, we should start preparing for such an event. If played and timed extremely well, this could be a KISS vs. MIA game when our peace deal expires.

2. They are giving KISS mono...funny. Anyway, this further strengthens the argument that there is a KISS-Nuts alliance budding. If KISS goes all out on TNT, and Nuts joins the party, we would very likely be left out of the fun.

All in all, I am starting to lean towards moving in on Dnuts. Perhaps the Defense ministry (and I'll post something in that thread in a second) could start drafting up possible strategies for an invasion of Nuts land?

While it would be nice to sit back and reap the benefits of peace while KISS is warring, if TNT is gone we will have a difficult game. We need to act.

 

[Chamnix]

It is no surprise they asked Dnuts for help. The fact that TNT didn't tell us about the 7 additional terms of peace is irritating.

The game would change without TNT, but it wouldn't necessarily be bad for MIA. KISS and Dnuts cooperate because they are behind in tech. If KISS takes too much land, then it will become Dnuts and MIA vs. KISS. If Dnuts control their continent, then it will become KISS and MIA vs. Dnuts. It will be a tricky game, but not a hopeless one.

That furs strategy is clearly false. Dnuts and MIA both have extra furs, so TNT wouldn't even have to pay KISS for them. It is possible that KISS is just trying to secure ivory, but it is hard to believe they could expect to have one or two towns next to TNT and think they could keep them.

I think KISS is still planning to eliminate TNT. It sounds like if we help TNT to hold off KISS that Dnuts may stand aside, but I'd really like something more commital from them. Maybe we sign a long-term peace with Dnuts contingent on their signing a long-term peace with TNT? Just throwing it out there...

 

[fe3333au]

Pigeon juts in ...

Titled ... A diplomatic Note ... 7th April - 08.57am

Greetings Foreign Minister Feaurius III,

Interesting times as of late? Don’t you agree our northern neighbors are having a tussle while the sensible porously exchange ivory and wine. While the North burn cities we build temples. I think it is time for our two nations to solidify our commitment to peace. We should consider signing a long term Peace agreement similar to what you have with Kiss. This way we can guarantee the freedoms of peace and trade we both currently enjoy. Please return to me your thoughts on this issue as soon as it is possible.

Fondest Regards

Nobotti Nobazini
Foreign Affairs Consulate
Independent Republic Of Doughnutia

Regarding the first ...
> I think this is positive
... but I think I'd like to know more of their intentions north and possibly their relationship with KISS.
wouldn't it be a bastard if KISS became the pariah
... I'm for sending a we are interested in principal but need more information.
... should we also try to get them to not support KISS in the fighting?

what does team think?



Titled ... DG Interview ... 7th April - 12.52pm
Looks like I may need a press agent.

Hi there fe, well i figured i'll ask one question at a time, that way i can grill you on your responses if needed . There's one rule in answering questions and that is to keep it as short as possible as the space is limited, hopefully we can get 4 or 5 questions in.
OK are sitting comfortably, good now we may begin

Question 1. What is your governments view of the KISS-TNT war?

Reply

Yes I'm sitting comfortably thank you ... actually I'd be more comfortable is someone was rubbing my feet ... hmmmm ... that's niiiice ... you have magic fingers Dear Sir

OK on to the question ... the people of MIA view the war between the KISS and TNT as unexpected and shocking, we would urge that sanity prevails and for peace to be given a chance ... while we feel that a grudging congratulation on a brilliantly executed strategy is in order, we feel that KISS have made their point and should pack up and return to their own shores.

On a personal note, and I must point out that I have had time to observe this strange group of people ... I often wonder if the KISS tribe may have a disposition to act illogically and aggressively when they are either drunk, getting drunk, thinking about getting drunk or upset because they are not drunk ... hangovers are also a sore point. In fact the only time they seem peaceful is when they are passed out after getting too drunk

Now can I have a doughnut?

...

 

[classical_hero]

How serious should w treat this newspaper claims that Donuts are building the colossus?

 

[Chamnix]

I love that answer fe3333au !!

I don't think it matters if Dnuts are building the Colossus. If we get there first, then we get what we want. If they beat us to it, then we build something else. It is already too late for us to switch to a non-wonder, and there is also nothing we can do to get the Colossus any sooner - no point in worrying about something we can't control.

As far as Dnuts peace offer, I can think of 3 possible reasons they want the deal:

1. They want to attack TNT and need to know we will not hit them from behind.

2. They fear KISS will come after them next and want to be able to fortify their northern border.

3. They fear an attack from us but want to build infrastructure instead of military.

I think we definitely consider a deal. We definitely want to know that Dnuts will not attack TNT - if we offer them peace contingent on them not attacking TNT, we can see if they cool off on the prospect of peace with us.

Secondly, this opens a possibility of a MIANuts science alliance (OK, I am already practically assuming the demise of TNT, but work with me!). Dnuts have very little culture - therefore, very few libraries. What if we agree that MIA will do the research and will sell Dnuts every tech for say 1/3 the monopoly price contingent on neither of us dealing with KISS? Of course, Dnuts have to complete Monotheism on their own, and I assume they have to give it to KISS, but that could be the final KISS trade.

 

[General_W]

I don't think it matters if Dnuts are building the Colossus. If we get there first, then we get what we want. If they beat us to it, then we build something else. It is already too late for us to switch to a non-wonder, and there is also nothing we can do to get the Colossus any sooner - no point in worrying about something we can't control.

As far as Dnuts peace offer, I can think of 3 possible reasons they want the deal:

1. They want to attack TNT and need to know we will not hit them from behind.

2. They fear KISS will come after them next and want to be able to fortify their northern border.

3. They fear an attack from us but want to build infrastructure instead of military.

I think we definitely consider a deal. We definitely want to know that Dnuts will not attack TNT - if we offer them peace contingent on them not attacking TNT, we can see if they cool off on the prospect of peace with us

I totally agree with all of this. Well said.

Secondly, this opens a possibility of a MIANuts science alliance (OK, I am already practically assuming the demise of TNT, but work with me!). Dnuts have very little culture - therefore, very few libraries. What if we agree that MIA will do the research and will sell Dnuts every tech for say 1/3 the monopoly price contingent on neither of us dealing with KISS? Of course, Dnuts have to complete Monotheism on their own, and I assume they have to give it to KISS, but that could be the final KISS trade.

I don't think we should even consider this until TNT is either dead, clearly soon-to-be-dead, or if they are forced to surrender to KISS.

 

[Chamnix]

Well, OK, I admitted I was jumping the gun a bit on the research ploy, but consider&#8230; unless the TNT-KISS war goes much better for TNT than expected based on that last Donsig &#8220;unofficial&#8221; chat, then TNT will be pretty much useless as a partner even if they are permitted to survive. The sooner we pry Dnuts away from KISS and start collecting Dnut&#8217;s money instead of letting KISS collect Dnut&#8217;s techs, the better.

But anyway, I think we want to &#8220;slow chat&#8221; this one. Express interest in a peace deal but try to keep the negotiations dragging on until the TNT situation becomes clearer. First step is to find out why they want peace &#8211; tell them we probably won&#8217;t sign a peace deal unless they promise not to help KISS in the war (not because we like TNT of course, but we don&#8217;t want KISS to become too powerful).

 

[fe3333au]

I agree with the go slow ... I will slooowly draft something after we get the latest turn

 

[General_W]

While the North burn cities we build temples.

So - is this just disinformation? Or are the Dnuts really fool enough to build temples?
Ha! Would make TNT look better!

 

[peter grimes]

I find it hard to believe that DNUTs would build temples with Kuningas as their turnplayer.

But maybe their style of play doesn't permit a more experienced and skilled player from running things the way he sees fit.

On that note, maybe we shouldn't be so worried about who is the turnplayer, as it all comes down to who is active. Likewise, a change in some of MIA's leadership positions could be a good thing, now and then. Remember how we reacted when we first noticed Kuningas on DNUT and Scoutsout on KISS!

 

[Chamnix]

Likewise, a change in some of MIA's leadership positions could be a good thing, now and then.

Infidel! Heathen!! Democrat!!! Defense Minister, take peter grimes away to the dungeon!! Oh, wait...

 

[fe3333au]

The interview continues

DG interview - Q2

[Hands over doughnut]

Q2. Moving on to a personal, there have been reports that large quantities of Doughnutian wines have gone missing while being processed by your office, care to respond?

Reply


munch munch munch

Wines ?!!

What Wines !!?

Oh yes ... Yes I recall now ... <burp>

While it is true that the usual .. ummm ... expected breakages have occurred through accidental mishandling on the journey from the MIA docks to the Foreign offices ...

However, after investigating the situation personally, and I thank you for the opportunity to officially report on my findings publicly ...

I have discovered that sadly the problem seems to point directly at the inferiority of Doughnutian glass craftsmanship ... frankly many of the better vintages seem to have been decanted into flawed bottles which do not survive the transport.

Now if I could suggest that you either look into changing the glass storage vessels or strengthening the packaging material ... this I think would protect your delicious cargo ... and also may I add, put an end to these rumours of impriority ... I trust that I have made myself crystal clear.

Now if you would be so good to rub my left foot ... Ohhhh ... Nice ... Robi_D you have a magic touch ... ever thought of pursuing a career in personal foot care?

...

 

[classical_hero]

Likewise, a change in some of MIA's leadership positions could be a good thing, now and then. Remember how we reacted when we first noticed Kuningas on DNUT and Scoutsout on KISS!

I like your reasoning. You will get a lucrative package if I make it to President.

 

[fe3333au]

Hard Probing questions.

So your denying any improper conduct in this matter?

Reply

I thought I made that perfectly clear !!!

What exactly are you implying? ... What is your source for this scurrilous probing? ... I bet it is one of those damned anti-Meleeters

... you know the type, protesting 'Equal Rights for Barbarians' and 'Save the Elephants' ... these anti-progressives hold nothing sacred and cannot see that holding an important position in Government requires much sacrifice!

... Do you think that holding endless diplomatic gatherings is something that I look forward to? ... No, for I am a simple man of simple taste, but I must force myself to organise and attend elaborate functions that require only the best food and beverage served.

These unkempt gossip mongers are masters of innuendo and think nothing about ruining the good name of their betters ... they have it too easy ... put them to work clearing the swamp and jungle is what I'd do!

So I'd say to you ... do not listen to their jealous whisperings for they are ill informed ... I'd invite you to talk to any citizen and they would tell you that MIA is the Greatest country in the World ... and the reason is good government, excellent diplomacy ... and the fact that we are the only civilization in history that has remained faithful to Peace ... a mistress who bestows her favours only to those that remain true and steadfast ... for those that embrace the Harlot of War will soon see how fickle she really is

...

 

[peter grimes]

Well-written! I like the soap-box sermon there at the end!