fe3333au
Deity
Upto you I guess ... but holding it one turn is no loss IMO
And we finally get some answers
And we finally get some answers
Doughnut Files Term 7 - 9
- Thread starter fe3333au
- Start date
General_W
Councilor & Merlot Noble
It's your department... but if anything, all they are forcing us to do is spend some of their 1400 gold on rushing a library.
We're really going to need a little goodwill from the Dnuts when the war with KISS starts - I don't think we want to make them mad over 1 town.
Not my department... just my 2 cents.
We're really going to need a little goodwill from the Dnuts when the war with KISS starts - I don't think we want to make them mad over 1 town.
Not my department... just my 2 cents.
fe3333au
Deity
My reasoning ia that goodwill should go both ways ... better to know now then to be caught off guard ... we have a tech lead and IMO it would be foolish to sell it cheaply and be caught off guard.
There is no need for Nuts to settle in that position, infact the rubble would be a better one to get both luxes quickly ... we give them the tech now and then they settle is NOT an option ... we get that amount of cash in one turn of 100% cash level.
If they follow through with their plan ... do you really think they will follow through with metallurgy.
Let's take a breath and find their true intentions ... if it is a misunderstanding then we will laugh and send it next turn.
I just want reassurances that we are NOT being played !!!
There is no need for Nuts to settle in that position, infact the rubble would be a better one to get both luxes quickly ... we give them the tech now and then they settle is NOT an option ... we get that amount of cash in one turn of 100% cash level.
If they follow through with their plan ... do you really think they will follow through with metallurgy.
Let's take a breath and find their true intentions ... if it is a misunderstanding then we will laugh and send it next turn.
I just want reassurances that we are NOT being played !!!
We are not selling Banking cheaply. Banking for 1400 gold is an awesome deal for us. I don't care if they are planning on declaring war on us in 3 turns - I would still sell Banking for 1400 gold.
And again, we have no deal regarding settlement. They never promised not to crowd Eureka Stockade. They did promise to send Metallurgy. Settling there does not prove that they are deal-breakers.
And again, we have no deal regarding settlement. They never promised not to crowd Eureka Stockade. They did promise to send Metallurgy. Settling there does not prove that they are deal-breakers.
Black_Hole
Deity
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2004
- Messages
- 3,424
I agree, we must send banking this turnChamnix said:
fe3333au
Deity
chatted with Robi ... again thanks team for allowing this
RobiD77: hi
fe3333au: hey ... can I make a coffee?
RobiD77: sure i was about to do the same
fe3333au: k
fe3333au: back
Here we go
fe3333au: welll from my perspective as hic foreign minister ... you have been sadly and frustratingly missed
RobiD77: sorry, trust me i don't like spending that much time at work
fe3333au: I only say that due to non-AIMability of current regeme
RobiD77: i see, i thought killer had it
fe3333au: yes but I cannot chat directly with him ....
fe3333au: so are you upto date with Nuts
RobiD77: just in case i collaspe at some point to answer your question the settler is going to settle NE of the former tnt city
fe3333au: directly on our border?
RobiD77: one square from it if i remember correctly
fe3333au: so not on the silk?
RobiD77: no it ends up above it
fe3333au: wow .. that's somewhat a releif
RobiD77: i will just confirm, i'll load up the game
Personal Perspective
fe3333au: I was feeling that you guys were going to hem us in more than you already have
RobiD77: that is out of my hands currently
fe3333au: the path or the location?
RobiD77: take your pick ... some people don't have the diplomatic sense if you know what i mean
fe3333au: welll can your team understand why I have (and only me by the way) halted transacttion of banking?
RobiD77: i think so
fe3333au: I'll fill you in from my own (stress own) view of recent developments
RobiD77: ok
fe3333au:
1. we settle
2. Tell you what we are doing
3. you found 2 cities cutting off our link to coast
4. fair enough ... good play
5. another city settled which is hemming us in ... and now the risk of a 4th which will start cultural influence
fe3333au: I'm (again just me) thinking this is not a way for friends to act ... especially since we are trading with you with a very very very good deal on tech
Real concern
fe3333au: I am concerned as to your team's ultimate trustworthness and motivation ... There is NO need to settle where your settler is ... The only boon granted is allowing us to move a unit into city ... and the invitation to link to your road network ... very one sided friendship IMO
RobiD77: 5 happened while my computer was down, and personally i though they needed to learn some tact because while they are expanding as planned they could have taken more consideration which between you and me i found very frustrating
fe3333au: agreed
Mutual Frustration expressed
fe3333au: So what is the general feel for us by your team ... I muse constantly to myself and to rest of MIA
RobiD77: i felt most annoyed (again just between us) that i went to all this effort to try to get a deal in place only for others to damage that work through careless but provoking actions
fe3333au: yes ... that's why I'm glad you are back LOL
RobiD77: i'm actually wondering whether to run next term because of the frustration and because at the end of the day i end up looking like an idiot
fe3333au: ouch ... hope that doesn't happen
RobiD77: well like i said i've been busy of late plus the problem with my hard drive and i went to a lot of time and effort to get up and running as quickly as possible only to find they have done things they should not have, regardless of intent it makes me wonder why bother to go to the trouble to do one thing only for other actions to take away from it. As FM i don't have the final say on all things and thats fine, but don't get me to do something then stuff it up by other actions
fe3333au: I understand ... I'm glad I stopped the trade then ... we can but see what happens
< Thanks again team >
fe3333au: I'm not even sure if I had the power officially to stop the trade btw LOL
RobiD77: you know how many PM's we went through for the deal along with 2 or 3 chats so you can understand the frustration
fe3333au: yes ... I enjoyed them
fe3333au: killercane is a lawyer ... so I really misjudged his age
RobiD77: no one forced them to seek or agree to the deal, even thoiugh personally i thought it was the best way to go i would not have gotton so worked up if the team had said no thanks, but to say ok then do stupid things....arrrgh
Concerned me so ...
fe3333au: salvagable? ... or is it a train with no brakes?
RobiD77: the deal or my frustration
fe3333au: frustration can easily be fixed with good drinks ... the deal I guess
fe3333au: no the settlement plans
fe3333au: actually the trust
RobiD77: it should be, they are settling above the silks not on the, it next to the bananas ... the trust hmmm
Metallurgy
fe3333au: how far away is metallurgy for you?
<still talking about goodfaith>
RobiD77: depends on whether they actually listen to what i am saying and show a bit more good faith
fe3333au: goodfaith for me as official Mr Paranoia is as follows
1. Settle not on silks
2. tell us which silk you will connect first ... so we know where to build a road that will link up quickly ... else what was point for us to settle the silk
RobiD77: i will ask in the forum about road plans
fe3333au: my reason is that once you have your own silks linked ... we will be stranded without the ability to connect ... thus whole city is useless
Metallurgy
fe3333au: and tell us how far away Metallurgy is
RobiD77: i have to go back into the game to see about metallury, i didn't check it before :-[
fe3333au: that's OK I can wait if you are able to do now
RobiD77: yes, just a sec
RobiD77: ok, i trying to work out what he is doing with the research, since he has slowed it this turn to have enough gold but i believe its 4 turns when it all comes out
fe3333au: that's cool
We will get answer and thus be able to connect to our economy faster
RobiD77: i have posted about the roads too ... i will send you a pm when i get the answer
fe3333au: cool
Beyond Metallurgy
fe3333au: I think after metallurgy our trading agreement ends ... so maybe your team can send us a proposal of what they want from us after that
RobiD77: ok, i will get the talk moving on the subject so i have an answer before the current deal ends
fe3333au: thats excellent news my friend ... I just need things cleared up ... and you too I guess
RobiD77: sure no problem, i will kick some asses into gear
fe3333au: I trust that your team will see the reason that I stopped the Banking transaction ... and no bad feelings will ensue ... if they huff and puff ... well tough LOL
Seed of rebellion planted
RobiD77: i'm sure there wont be any long lasting problems
fe3333au: off the record ... maybe a coupe is needed
RobiD77: hehe, don't know how to manage that one
fe3333au: many actives for your team?
RobiD77: about 6
RobiD77: yours
fe3333au: bit more ... but we have 1 on holidays for a month soon ... guestimate 8
RobiD77: thats not bad, unfortunately civ4 coming out kind of killed the number, although provolution constant complaints and stoppages early on didn't help
TNT War
fe3333au: LOL speaking of which how goes the TNT extermination?
RobiD77: not much further to go now, just a matter of grinding them down
fe3333au: 5 turns to RIP?
RobiD77: i would say closer to 10, but it also depends on KISS
fe3333au: true ... good getting insider info ... we got a pool going ... I said before 166
RobiD77: hehe
fe3333au: you see many KISS units around?
RobiD77: not really but they are probably in the fog of war just out of view
fe3333au: they have a fur colony that is just ripe for the taking
RobiD77: hehe
RobiD77: well i better get off to bed, i've got another long day at work tommorrow, it will settle down again after the weekend
fe3333au: okay good to chat ... let's do it regularly
fe3333au: cya matey
RobiD77: that would be good, cya, have a good night
fe3333au: I will a week of milking birthday is great
RobiD77: lol
fe3333au: btw Azza is birthday as well ... freaky eh ??
RobiD77: yes
fe3333au: sleep well
RobiD77: but it can happen
RobiD77: thanks you too
RobiD77 signed off at 11:38:24 PM.
Looks good. If you are leaving it up to me, then I will send them Banking this turn for the following reasons:
1. We have a deal – they have not broken it, so we should not.
2. They have chosen a path for their settler that scared us, but Robi’s explanation is completely plausible.
3. Good faith works both ways – I think we give them the benefit of the doubt until they do something to betray us.
4. Banking for 1400 gold is a great deal and should be made regardless of the Nut’s future intentions.
As far as future deals, it would be nice if we could lock them into something sooner again (before they see we are in the Industrial Age in 6 turns). Proposal:
1. If Dnuts change their mind and are willing to research Military Tradition, and if they can guarantee it to us no later than turn 164, then they can do that next. We can trade either Magnetism or Theory of Gravity for Military Tradition. They can buy the other at a discounted price.
2. If they still don’t want Military Tradition, then we can sell both Magnetism and Theory of Gravity to them.
Of course, any deal would have the standard no passing the tech to KISS clause. The only issue is the selling price. It clearly has to be less than 50% of the monopoly beaker price. The point to emphasize is that if they trade with KISS, then they will research 1 tech, and get 1 tech in exchange – i.e. 2 techs for the price of one. By buying from us at less than 50%, they can get 2 techs for less than the price of one. Obviously we should try to get as much as we can (40%?), but I would be willing to go quite a bit lower (25%?) to keep them in our corner.
1. We have a deal – they have not broken it, so we should not.
2. They have chosen a path for their settler that scared us, but Robi’s explanation is completely plausible.
3. Good faith works both ways – I think we give them the benefit of the doubt until they do something to betray us.
4. Banking for 1400 gold is a great deal and should be made regardless of the Nut’s future intentions.
As far as future deals, it would be nice if we could lock them into something sooner again (before they see we are in the Industrial Age in 6 turns). Proposal:
1. If Dnuts change their mind and are willing to research Military Tradition, and if they can guarantee it to us no later than turn 164, then they can do that next. We can trade either Magnetism or Theory of Gravity for Military Tradition. They can buy the other at a discounted price.
2. If they still don’t want Military Tradition, then we can sell both Magnetism and Theory of Gravity to them.
Of course, any deal would have the standard no passing the tech to KISS clause. The only issue is the selling price. It clearly has to be less than 50% of the monopoly beaker price. The point to emphasize is that if they trade with KISS, then they will research 1 tech, and get 1 tech in exchange – i.e. 2 techs for the price of one. By buying from us at less than 50%, they can get 2 techs for less than the price of one. Obviously we should try to get as much as we can (40%?), but I would be willing to go quite a bit lower (25%?) to keep them in our corner.
fe3333au
Deity
I'll bring it up ... sounds good 
I will either be drunk or feasting for couple days ... I hope ... or in bed and sorry for myself with Shingle pain 
Either way ... I will relay any messages but not be upto formally relaying anything officially
I will either be drunk or feasting for couple days ... I hope
... or in bed and sorry for myself with Shingle pain Either way ... I will relay any messages but not be upto formally relaying anything officially
General_W
Councilor & Merlot Noble
Good Chat! 
I agree with Chamnix - good faith works both ways... and we're getting a very good deal on Banking... let's send it this turn.
Also - @Fe - if you'd like to authorize me to talk to KillerCane, I can watch from him on MSN and see if I can bring up the whole "next steps in Tech trading" thing.
I agree with Chamnix - good faith works both ways... and we're getting a very good deal on Banking... let's send it this turn.
Also - @Fe - if you'd like to authorize me to talk to KillerCane, I can watch from him on MSN and see if I can bring up the whole "next steps in Tech trading" thing.
azzaman333
meh
Maybe we could trade ToG and Magnets for Mil Trad? We want to focus on IA research ASAP, and this way we will help Nuts into IA too, while we get what we really want for our war against KISS, cavalry.
I think that's a little too generous to the Nuts - they are a real threat to win this game since they will be peacefully expanding over their whole continent while we are in a war against a very tough opponent. I don't want to help them that much if we can avoid it.
General_W
Councilor & Merlot Noble
Yeah – we can make the Dnuts a good deal – but let's not give away the farm!!
Also – remember that Military Tradition will be an easy/cheap tech to research – comparatively.
Perhaps we could offer the Nutters Steam Power for jut 1,000 gold (3600 beakers). Only catch being that they need to pay us by turn 166 – and we won't give it to them till they advance to the IA on their own.
That'd still be a crazy good deal for them… and would probably still be a good deal at 1,500 gold.
Standard no-trading with KISS clause would apply.
Anyway – I think we should approach them here soon and say "hey, where are we going with our tech trading now that our last specified deal is done?" and just see what they say.
Also – remember that Military Tradition will be an easy/cheap tech to research – comparatively.
Perhaps we could offer the Nutters Steam Power for jut 1,000 gold (3600 beakers). Only catch being that they need to pay us by turn 166 – and we won't give it to them till they advance to the IA on their own.
That'd still be a crazy good deal for them… and would probably still be a good deal at 1,500 gold.
Standard no-trading with KISS clause would apply.
Anyway – I think we should approach them here soon and say "hey, where are we going with our tech trading now that our last specified deal is done?" and just see what they say.
fe3333au
Deity
With Robi back in the seat we really should go through him.
However if you do have the opportunity to chat with killer go for it
I'd be a little concerned about selling Steampower, however if that is the will of the team let's not give it away too cheap. I'd prefer the selling price to be double, which is still a bargain.
perhaps letting them come up with a price would be a prudent option, it worked in our favour last time 
However if you do have the opportunity to chat with killer go for it
I'd be a little concerned about selling Steampower, however if that is the will of the team let's not give it away too cheap. I'd prefer the selling price to be double, which is still a bargain.
perhaps letting them come up with a price would be a prudent option, it worked in our favour last time Use whatever bargaining technique you expect to get us the best deal - just remember, last time we wanted them to write the proposal, we ended up waiting a month before we finally gave up and wrote it ourselves.
Added a third reason why Dnuts should not sign a long-term peace with KISS:
1. MIA will not sign another long-term peace deal with KISS. As long as MIA and KISS do not have a long-term peace deal, Dnuts have nothing to fear from KISS.
2. When the eventual MIA/KISS war comes, DNuts may want the option of taking a KISS town or 3 on their continent - they don't want their hands tied by an unnecessary peace deal.
3. KISS is probably planning on grabbing as much of TNT's land as they can. If they have to have enough units there to escort settlers and guard towns, then they will not be able to settle as quickly. Dnuts can comfortably move all their troops to the north since MIA and Nuts have a peace deal so not having a peace deal with KISS will not slow the Dnut's settling at all, but it will slow KISS'.
Added a third reason why Dnuts should not sign a long-term peace with KISS:
1. MIA will not sign another long-term peace deal with KISS. As long as MIA and KISS do not have a long-term peace deal, Dnuts have nothing to fear from KISS.
2. When the eventual MIA/KISS war comes, DNuts may want the option of taking a KISS town or 3 on their continent - they don't want their hands tied by an unnecessary peace deal.
3. KISS is probably planning on grabbing as much of TNT's land as they can. If they have to have enough units there to escort settlers and guard towns, then they will not be able to settle as quickly. Dnuts can comfortably move all their troops to the north since MIA and Nuts have a peace deal so not having a peace deal with KISS will not slow the Dnut's settling at all, but it will slow KISS'.
fe3333au
Deity
Robi responce ...
must be in g-mail
or could be refering to chat with Gen_W
... I'm thinking it will be easier for us just to road our silk and due to Nut's also wanting to link their own silk we will quickly have access.
Robi D said:Another late night at work
All the best and happy road building
Robi D
must be in g-mail
or could be refering to chat with Gen_W
... I'm thinking it will be easier for us just to road our silk and due to Nut's also wanting to link their own silk we will quickly have access.
General_W
Councilor & Merlot Noble
Had a quick chat with KillerCane (Casey J)
The End!
Well - I hope I did ok! I avoid and didn't answer as many of his specific questions as I could - but hopefully managed to get a bunch of good info from him.
Wanted to get one more chat in with KillerCane before I go on vacation and we lose touch with him.
RobiD maybe a better contact, but I think we really want to keep Killer in our camp also...
Introductions
Josh says:
Hey Casey - it's GeneralW, from MIA. Any chance you'd have some time for a quick Civ-3 chat today?
casey j says:
sure
Josh says:
Just wanted to test the waters with you a little - now that the tech-trading part of our arangement is done, is there any interest on your team in trying to work out another tech swap or two?
Confusion over Military Tradition
casey j says:
sure what did you have in mind? Mil Tradition?
Josh says:
Well, we were under the impression you weren't really interested in that tech?
casey j says:
No we will have it, for trade
casey j says:
didnt know if you were interested
casey j says:
what did you have in mind?
Josh says:
lol - we must have miscomunicated somewhere along the line!
Josh says:
Are you planning on getting MilTrad after Metulurgy?
Josh says:
or are you saying you want us to get it, then trade it to you?
casey j says:
no we will be getting it
Tech Plans...
casey j says:
what are your tech plans
Josh says:
Well - Theory of Gravity and Magnetism
Josh says:
of course
Josh says:
I believe we're still just waiting to do our Metallurgy for Physics trade.
Josh says:
we've got Physics ready to trade, I believe, as soon as you're ready to go
casey j says:
sure, but are you wanting us to do magnetism while you do ToG?
casey j says:
Ive been away, i need to check and see how close we are to metal
Josh says:
ok - cool - I think we can get both Mag. and ToG ourselves.
Back to Questions about MilTrad...
Josh says:
If I'm asking for too much info - just tell me, but you're making it sound like you're getting MilTrad from KISS - I'm curious how you worked out that deal?
casey j says:
??
casey j says:
i dont think we are on the same page
Josh says:
LOL - you may have to excuse me. I'm the captain of the paranoid members of my team
casey j says:
our current plans are to do mil trad, but if you want us to do magnetism while you do ToG we can do that instead, OR trade mil tradition for Mag or ToG. Did you want to discuss IA tech swapping? Im confused as to what you are wanting to trade
Josh says:
yeah - we started off this talk on different pages. In a previous chat, I remember you saying your team didn't want to do MilTrad... hence my confusion. If you ARE going to research it - then yeah, we may totally be able to work out a trade for Mag. or ToG.
Josh says:
Only problem with that could be timing
Josh says:
we're on a bit of a deadline for needing Military Tradition
Josh says:
Since our peace with KISS expires on turn 166
casey j says:
No i remember that conversation, I understand you. But IIRC you were wanting to trade Mil Trad for banking or something or another. ANYWAY,
He fishes for info on our war with KISS... I dodge.
casey j says:
are you planning on going to war with KISS when your agreement expires?
casey j says:
or planning on them warring with you?
Josh says:
well - we may not have a choice! (yeah - more like the second one)
Josh says:
Let me put it this way - we don't intended to renew our peace deal
Josh says:
which is good for you - less to fear from KISS
casey j says:
we will have mil tradition well before then
Trying to nail him down on Tech times...
Josh says:
Great - can I ask for some idea on when you'll have Metulurgy and then Mil Trad?
casey j says:
i need to check the save to give you an accurate timeline on tech pace
casey j says:
ive been away, and just got back to playing the save
casey j says:
but i can let you know
Josh says:
ok - I understand. That'd be great.
Looking for agreement in principle
Josh says:
we don't have to work out a deal right now - we just wanted to see where you wanted to go with the trading once the Metal-Phys deal is done.
Josh says:
You more interested in Magnetism or in Theory of Gravity for MilTrad?
casey j says:
are you doing ToG first or mag, and how close are you to each? so that we can do a timeline. We are researching really fast now that we have infrastructure in place and science farms
casey j says:
it doesnt matter I dont think, either ToG or Magnetism. I think tech costs are the same
Josh says:
they are - both 2040 beakers
casey j says:
but i might be wrong and will need to double check
casey j says:
ok
casey j says:
what about for IA? it would be dependant on your free tech I suppose.
Josh says:
MilTrad is 1920 - but I think we'd accept a very small ammount of gold to balance it out - in the interest of friendship
casey j says:
if you draw nationalism and are at war, we may be able to provide some gold so you can upgrade some rifles
Josh says:
yeah - some IA trading is totally a possibility also
Josh says:
we'll have to see what we draw.
Final Farewell to TNT?
casey j says:
TNT will hopefully be gone next turn, it would have been nice to have their free tech as well
Josh says:
yeah - that is kinda a shame. I doubt anyone could have gotten the tech out of them anyway though
casey j says:
ha you are probably right, aside from stealing it
Josh says:
lol - indeed.
Pinning him down to e-mail us some tech times...
Josh says:
ok - when you get a chance to check the save, why don't you let us know what your ETA on Metalurguy and MilTrad are... and maybe float the idea of trading MilTrad with your ream - and let us know.
casey j says:
alright
Passing on Chamnix's 3 points against KISS...
Josh says:
ok cool - last thing and then I'm sure we've both got to go...
Josh says:
we came up with 3 reasons for you to NOT sign a peace deal with KISS... aside from just making your friends at MIA happy
Josh says:
wanted to pass them along for you to consider.
Josh says:
1. MIA will not sign another long-term peace deal with KISS. As long as MIA and KISS do not have a long-term peace deal, Dnuts have nothing to fear from KISS.
Josh says:
2. When the eventual MIA/KISS war comes, DNuts may want the option of taking a KISS town or 3 on their continent - they don't want their hands tied by an unnecessary peace deal.
Josh says:
3. KISS is probably planning on grabbing as much of TNT's land as they can. If they have to have enough units there to escort settlers and guard towns, then they will not be able to settle as quickly. Dnuts can comfortably move all their troops to the north since MIA and Nuts have a peace deal so not having a peace deal with KISS will not slow the Dnut's settling at all, but it will slow KISS'.
casey j says:
all very good points. the land KISS settles will quickly be taken once we have rails in place, if it should come to that
casey j says:
land on our continent i mean
Josh says:
understood we obviously have our own self-interest in not seeing you make peace with KISS - but really, our two nations have some common strategic aims right now - makes for a good friendship
casey j says:
yes we were fearing an invasion from you a while back, and had to take appropriate measures, it is good to know we are on the same page
Josh says:
ok - thanks for chatting. We'll watch for the e-mail from you
The End!
Well - I hope I did ok! I avoid and didn't answer as many of his specific questions as I could - but hopefully managed to get a bunch of good info from him.
Wanted to get one more chat in with KillerCane before I go on vacation and we lose touch with him.
RobiD maybe a better contact, but I think we really want to keep Killer in our camp also...
Mostly good news although there are a couple causes for concern in there:
It looks like they are feeling very confident which does make me worry
I wonder if that means Dnuts are planning on landing the final blow - I was really hoping KISS would lose lots more units still.
Anyway, it would be great if we could get Military Tradition from the Nuts. I think it is actually the same cost as our 2 techs, so we can swap straight across again, then maybe sell the other. I hope they get back to us fairly quickly with a timeline...
fe3333au
Deity
Wow that was really confusing ... were they saying that they were going for Mil Trad in order to trade
I think going through Robi will be better from now on ... I'll send him a request to chat.
Well done Gen_W
I got from the chat ... that the sleeping monster has been woken.
I think going through Robi will be better from now on ... I'll send him a request to chat.
Well done Gen_W
I got from the chat ... that the sleeping monster has been woken.
classical_hero
In whom I trust
We are still waiting for Metalurgy.
fe3333au
Deity
According to Robi chat some time ago ... we will have it in 3ish turns by my reconning (see Looking Glass front pages for that sort of info)
Damn this team ... why is it always us that has to wring information out of them ... it's like getting sex from a ... ooops
sorry
Damn this team ... why is it always us that has to wring information out of them ... it's like getting sex from a ... ooops
sorry 
