Download Thread

[Teodosio]

I'd love to try this out and provide feedback, but there's way too much going on to just intuit what all of the changes are.

That was exactly my point in the other thread. Maniac, why don't you plan a "Planetfall concepts" section for the Datalinks?

 

[Fosse]

Well, there are only eight hints in that section of the Datalinks, and they already assume a certain familiarity with game concepts. Also, the hints section is the last place I'd have ever thought to look, and I suspect that's true for most others as well. But they still aren't that helpful because if I have a question about what a hint is talking about there is nowhere for me to look up the answer.

The datalinks themselves are not particularly useful, given that they are still full of Civ IV text. I can look up a tech in the datalinks and see what units I can build, but unless I read large portions of the datalinks I can't get a sense of how things fit together.

I understand that the datalinks are a work in progress for a mod that's a work in progress, but without a detailed readme someplace they are the only place a new player can turn, and for that they are terribly inadequate.

So I'd suggest a detailed readme file that's distributed with the download, the contents of which are mirrored on the forums. A "Welcome Thread" like you see in many other mod project forums can detail the basics, to get people started. Things like new concepts and mechanics, the flavor and scope of the tech tree and units, how religion works, the terrain system, the unit upgrade and promotion system, why there's a big heart in the upper left corner.... and so on. Just to get us into the game without feeling completely lost.

The Readme would have more detailed information about everything.

As for what needs to be covered -- you said yourself you have a hard time knowing because you're good at figuring out mods -- the answer is ANYTHING that's different from Civ IV.

I'd suggest, as a minimum to get started, a feature list entitled "Differences from Beyond the Sword," a feature list entitled "Differences from Alpha Centauri." This could all go in the welcome thread.

In case it provides some insight, here is roughly my train of thought in the first few turns of my first try at this mod:

- I start with a supply crawler?! Wait, what's a supply pod? I can upgrade it? Should I save it instead, for a Project? Do I have tech to build foils and formers already? I'll consult the Datalinks..... tech IMPOSSIBLE? A bunch of text strings in the description box? Whatever, I'll upgrade to a former.

- I don't seem to have any former actions.... I'll see what I need to research.... most of these names are pretty unfamiliar to me. Is Ultraponics Recycling an early tech? I remember Hydroponic Satellites... but that was late game. Must be a new tech.... I'll put my former to sleep for now. Should have build the foil.

- Why is my Scout Patrol not walking in a straight line? What do you mean he can't get off of the hills?!?

- What tech do I need for roads? That'll give my former something to do....

- What are these displays in the corner? Planet Attitude and Flowering Counter? I can guess at the first one pretty well... so that's not part of Civil Engineering any more? Flowering Counter? Pops? I'll check Datalinks.... crap.

- I built a foil! I can upgrade it to Repair Bay or Storage. Neat! I guess that's the Unit Workshop? (Yikes, might get tedious to do this for every unit I build!) Okay... does a repair bay cost experience points to upgrade, or is that free?

- My former can build Greenhouses. Cool. Okay... I'll build one here, and here, and .... why can't I build it there? The tiles are both moist... Wait, that one's a bit different, but it's the same as that one and I could build one there. I'll check the datalinks.... sigh.


For the record, I played SMAC regularly for years and years, having bought it the month it was released, and never completely putting it down until Civ IV came out.

 

[Maniac]

That was exactly my point in the other thread. Maniac, why don't you plan a "Planetfall concepts" section for the Datalinks?

Because you guys first need to tell me what I need to put in it.

IIRC in the other thread you said you once asked what the Flowering Counter did. You asked that before I added a little more information to the Flowering Counter widget though. Do you still not know what the Flowering Counter does?

I should expand the Flowering Counter widget with some more information (the FC also affects the frequency of spawning spots, the aggressiveness of native life and the relations between Terraformers and Hybrids), but I wouldn't really know what else I need to say.

Well, there are only eight hints in that section of the Datalinks, and they already assume a certain familiarity with game concepts.

What hints are unclear?

Also, the hints section is the last place I'd have ever thought to look, and I suspect that's true for most others as well.

I wonder though. Would people who don't look at the hints section ever look in the Datalinks for a 'Planetfall concepts' section? The advantage of hints is that they show up during game loading, so the player would have to try really hard to miss those!

For this reason I'm a bigger fan of hints and context help.

The datalinks themselves are not particularly useful, given that they are still full of Civ IV text. I can look up a tech in the datalinks and see what units I can build, but unless I read large portions of the datalinks I can't get a sense of how things fit together.

Yes, getting the 'big picture' across is of course an issue. Not sure how to do that. Have you looked at the F6 screen? Does that help?

In case it provides some insight, here is roughly my train of thought in the first few turns of my first try at this mod:

Yes, this is very useful.

- I start with a supply crawler?! Wait, what's a supply pod? I can upgrade it? Should I save it instead, for a Project? Do I have tech to build foils and formers already? I'll consult the Datalinks..... tech IMPOSSIBLE? A bunch of text strings in the description box? Whatever, I'll upgrade to a former.

I could add a context (mouse-over) help that states "These Supplies from the UNS Unity can be upgraded to a Former, Unity Foil or Unity Rover"? That's just restating what can be seen from the upgrade buttons, but perhaps it'll dissuade the question "can I use this to hurry a project?"
I don't know, do you have ideas?

- I don't seem to have any former actions.... I'll see what I need to research.... most of these names are pretty unfamiliar to me. Is Ultraponics Recycling an early tech? I remember Hydroponic Satellites... but that was late game. Must be a new tech.... I'll put my former to sleep for now. Should have build the foil.

How do you try to find information about what a tech is?
For instance, if I don't know what a tech is, I look in the Datalinks or in the F6 screen.

Why is my Scout Patrol not walking in a straight line? What do you mean he can't get off of the hills?!?

Have you read the hint on 'cliffs'? Should that hint be made more clear?

- What tech do I need for roads? That'll give my former something to do....

I could expand this hint:

All plots within your territory are part of your trade network. This mean no roads are needed to connect resources.

to

All plots within your territory are part of your trade network. This mean no roads are needed to connect resources. In fact, there are no roads in Planetfall.

Would this help?

- What are these displays in the corner? Planet Attitude and Flowering Counter? I can guess at the first one pretty well... so that's not part of Civil Engineering any more? Flowering Counter? Pops? I'll check Datalinks.... crap.

I'll expand the widget as said earlier in this post to Teodosio.

Okay... does a repair bay cost experience points to upgrade, or is that free?

I can add a hint saying:
"Special ABilities do not cost Experience Points."
Does that suffice? (Don't know what else needs to be said :-s)

- My former can build Greenhouses. Cool. Okay... I'll build one here, and here, and .... why can't I build it there? The tiles are both moist... Wait, that one's a bit different, but it's the same as that one and I could build one there. I'll check the datalinks.... sigh.

I'll see about expanding the datalinks to mention on what terrain types an improvement can be built.

 

[Fosse]

Because you guys first need to tell me what I need to put in it.

The answer to that is: Everything.

What hints are unclear?

They aren't unclear. They are lacking context, breadth, and a coherent structure. They're just random bits of info.

I wonder though. Would people who don't look at the hints section ever look in the Datalinks for a 'Planetfall concepts' section? The advantage of hints is that they show up during game loading, so the player would have to try really hard to miss those!

Well, I personally didn't think to look for the information I needed in "hints," and chose instead to look in the Datalinks for some kind of "concepts" page. I also looked for a thread in the several forums that host Planetfall discussions, and in the Mod directory for readme files.

It's not hard to miss "hints." Playing Civ IV for years has taught me that they are mostly frivolous, and that all information they contain that does have any value can easily be gotten someplace else. Additionally, I tend to alt+tab away from the game while it's making maps and displaying hints, so I never even saw one for the first couple of hours I was screwing with the mod. I didn't look at them until explicitly told that that's where to find information.

The disadvantage of hints is that they are displayed infrequently and at random. Knowing that Doctrine: Air Power lets me build an air force does not in any way help me on turn 1.

For this reason I'm a bigger fan of hints and context help.

Context help is great, but nothing beats reference material.

Yes, getting the 'big picture' across is of course an issue. Not sure how to do that. Have you looked at the F6 screen? Does that help?

It doesn't help. The tech tree is too spread out and abstract to be used as anything more than a reference until one reaches the point where they've internalized it. I think that the only way to communicate the big picture is write up a thorough readme. The SMAC manual is over 50 pages

Yes, this is very useful.

Glad to help.

I could add a context (mouse-over) help that states "These Supplies from the UNS Unity can be upgraded to a Former, Unity Foil or Unity Rover"? That's just restating what can be seen from the upgrade buttons, but perhaps it'll dissuade the question "can I use this to hurry a project?"
I don't know, do you have ideas?

Perhaps. In my case, the fact that the unit looks just like the supply crawler from SMAC colored my perception. A person unfamiliar with SMAC wouldn't have the same thought.

How do you try to find information about what a tech is?
For instance, if I don't know what a tech is, I look in the Datalinks or in the F6 screen.

So do I, but it amounts to shining a tiny flashlight around in gigantic, densly packed museum. I can look at any one thing I want to examine, but I don't know what it's next to or how they all fit into the bigger picture.

Have you read the hint on 'cliffs'? Should that hint be made more clear?

I have now, but was utterly baffled before being pointed at "hints."

I could expand this hint:
...
I can add a hint saying:
...
Anything else about hints that you said

Anything done to clarify hints is gravy. Can't hurt you. But an entirely hint-based documentation is never going to cut it for a project this complex. You need an instruction manual that covers all of the basic concepts, and familiarizes the player with the landscape. A hint about units moving from ridges to lowlands doesn't tell me anything I need to know about fungus, forests, terrain improvements, and any of the other things that make up the map.

I'll see about expanding the datalinks to mention on what terrain types an improvement can be built.

That'd be great.


I understand how difficult it could be to assess what a new player is going to need to know to play a game that you've so thoroughly internalized. If you still have a copy of the Alpha Centauri manual someplace, I suggest giving it a read through to get a clear idea of what you need in a readme. You can get away with leaving out stuff that's intuitive after playing BTS, but you can't get away with leaving out stuff that's intuitive after playing SMAC for years. A brief outline of the TOC looks like this:

Getting Started:
Installing the game and stuff. You should talk about where to download the mod and find updates. Also, this is a great place to talk about the scope and direction of your mod. Introduce the players to Chiron and the factions here, just like the manual did.

Welcome to Planet:
Real basic stuff about how to play the game. This can safely be skipped.

Planet:
20 pages. The subheadings are great: Resources, Native Life, Terrain, How Terrain effects movement, How Terrain Effects Combat, Terraofrming.... Ecological Risks.... A great deal of information that your mod users will need.

Colonizing the Planet:
This is a lot of basics. How to manage bases and units. How combat works. That level of basic info is not needed (your players are modding Civ IV, they should know how to play Civ IV at least). But describing the kinds of Base Improvements, Special Projects, and so on -- which isn't similar to Civ IV -- could go here.

Controlling Society:
Discussions about the tech system, diplomacy, economies, social engineering, and winning. Over thirty pages of information.

There are then several Appendices, including:

Notes and Tips:
You know. Hints. Now that a reader is familiar with broad concepts, hints are helpful both to send their thinking in the right direction and to remind them of very important items that bare repeating.

Tables:
Lots of spreadsheets with info about technologies, units, terraforming improvement yields, and so on. Good stuff.

I'd add to that a section of "What's different from Civ IV," and one of "What's different from SMAC." Both of those will help players understand which systems are related to others that they already understand, and will give them a big leg up in learning what's new.

 

[Teodosio]

I should expand the Flowering Counter widget with some more information (the FC also affects the frequency of spawning spots, the aggressiveness of native life and the relations between Terraformers and Hybrids), but I wouldn't really know what else I need to say.

I didn't know that the Flowering counter affected relations between Terraformers and Hybrid!
Add an article about the FC on the "Planetfall concepts" section!

 

[self biased]

it doesn't do it directly: hybrid players tend to keep more fungus and hybrid forests around their bases to raise their planet score, which in turn makes their native life units vicious. really vicious.

 

[Maniac]

Add an article about the FC on the "Planetfall concepts" section!

What information should I include in it? Hint: 'everything' is not a useful answer.

it doesn't do it directly: hybrid players tend to keep more fungus and hybrid forests around their bases to raise their planet score, which in turn makes their native life units vicious. really vicious.

There is a direct effect on relations. But it's hard to notice because the AI currently almost never runs the Terraformed ecology civic...

 

[Fosse]

What information should I include in it? Hint: 'everything' is not a useful answer.

For a user new who doesn't know anything about it, "everything" is the only answer that makes sense.

What does the Flowering Counter tell you? Why should you care?What game mechanic does it measure? What fictional world phenomena is it measuring? What effects it? Is a high number better or worse? Is it worldwide or local to your faction? Can you directly control it? Can you influence it? How would you do either of those things? Why would you want to?

 

[nutz4dos]

I don't know how common this is, but I can spend a great deal of time browsing the 'pedia because I looked there for one tidbit of info. The links from entry to entry are extremely useful in putting everything into perspective.
One way for the community to help you with the Datalinks would be to lift the burden of writing off your shoulders completely. Using a wiki, or similar tool, everyone else would be able to compile entries for the Datalinks complete with links putting every entry in its appropriate place. This would also remove the need to re-answer the same questions, simply put a link to the community datalinks in the welcome or download thread. As questions arise and are answered people can put the answers down into the datalinks entries. Then this can be used as the basis for the datalinks that would be included in the mod.
Just a thought.

 

[Maniac]

What does the Flowering Counter tell you? Why should you care?What game mechanic does it measure? What fictional world phenomena is it measuring? What effects it? Is a high number better or worse? Is it worldwide or local to your faction? Can you directly control it? Can you influence it? How would you do either of those things? Why would you want to?

I added a new concept page:

 

[Fosse]

Good start. nutz4dos is right about the utility of links within the Datalinks.

Planetmind, the Civic selections, types of Terraforming, Planet Attitude, Fungus... all of those cry out for a link when considering a new player's perspective.

 

[Maniac]

Version 10 of Planetfall has been released. This will break savegames from the previous version 8. You will also immediately need to download and apply Patch a.

From a pure design point of view, I am most happy in this version with the change to trade networks and open borders. You can read more about these here.

There are also plenty of new unit graphics:



Changelog:

1. New Plasma Thrower graphics added, a combination of mechaerik, The_Coyote, SeZereth and AlazkanAssassin assets and efforts.
2. Leaderhead personalities modified, by Pfeffersack.
3. Building buttons, by Teodosio.
4. Factions now have a seperate list for sea base names. Thanks to Priv_Joker.
5. The Spore Launcher got a new texture, thanks to Lord Tirian.
6. New Mass Driver graphics, by The_Coyote and Deliverator.
7. The Artillery unit has been renamed to Behemoth, and has been given new graphics by The_Coyote and Deliverator.
8. The Partisan unit now uses Apocalyptic Fury Road graphics by SeZereth.
9. Fungal Tower graphics by Lord Tirian.
10. The Carrier has been transformed into a combat submarine, still retaining its air unit cargo capacity. New graphics by The_Coyote and Deliverator.
11. The Cruiser ship is now enabled by Magnetic Acceleration.
12. The territory of factions you don't have open borders with isn't part of your trade network. Put in other words, if the only way to reach faction C is to move through a hostile faction B, you won't be able to trade with faction C. You can still trade resources with faction B, regardless of open border status.
13. Factions now have their SMAC ambience music.
14. Units can now switch graphics by picking certain promotions. Thanks to Kael.
15. Democratic politics civic now only provides +1 happiness to the largest cities.
16. Deep Radar promotion is now enabled by Information Networks.
17. Accuracy promotion is now enabled by Polymorphic Software.
18. AAA Tracking promotion is now enabled by Holographics;
19. Interstellar Gate victory now actually works.
20. The Interstellar Gate victory now requires six instead of five Subspace Generators.
21. Subspace Generators are produced 25% faster with control of the Manifold Nexus.
22. Psych Chaplain specialist no longer gives an Espionage point, but one extra Great People point instead.
23. Factions are more likely to land on the biggest landmass.
24. The Spartans and Hive will tend to land a little further away from the group than the others.
25. Modified native life spawning pattern.
26. The Solar Collector improvement can be built on Jungle, but no longer on other Rainy terrain.

 

[GarretSidzaka]

hey maniac my buddy.

i was playing the hell outta your mod and i noticed that your paratroopers look really lame, so i made a new paratrooper just for SMAC'ishness

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=8163480

 

[orlanth]

wow, those look awesome

 

[Tssha]

Those parachutes look really...I don't know...weird.

Aside from that, I love the uniforms and the helmets. I could see these guys going in via orbital insertion.

 

[GarretSidzaka]

btw. the coyote released a new version of this unit with lowered polys, maniac. just go and re download it from the database, the new version is right there. same everything as this, just lowered polys

 

[JosEPh_II]

Maniac,

Long time lurker, and player of your mod. Just wanted to say Thanks for continuing to update/improve PlanetFall.

The new graphics are really nice.

And Garret,
I sure hope Maniac adds those units in! I like them!

JosEPh

 

[GarretSidzaka]

hey maniac do you know what it is like to fiend for some one to make a patch....

 

[Maniac]

hey maniac do you know what it is like to fiend for some one to make a patch....

What does 'fiend' mean? Besides "evil person, demon"?

I've merged the 319 Python and SDK changes into Planetfall, but I still have to compile the DLL and see if it actually works, and then also include some contributions made in the meantime in the mod before I can release a 319 patch. Otherwise those people will be unhappy.

 

[GarretSidzaka]

no doubt!! "fiending" is when someone wants that perfect drug (like a crackhead) or a planetfall fanatic!!