I ran some tests (worldbuildered a similar start) and indeed a workboat first seems to be best here. Tokugawa is infamous for "having no economical traits" so let's give him a hand
The corn is not irrigated so working clams is better. Worker after boat. Research Mining>BW
Most likely the right approach indeed. Ag delays BW too long for 5 food.
Boat first, then worker. Question is, what then? More boats? How quick do you want to get those clams boated up?
Warriors for barbs and perhaps a second boat/settler.
If you go worker after boat, do you then go boat> settler? I'm guessing the city is at Pop 2 when the first boat is built.
That'd be a very slow build of a settler, relying almost exclusively on tree chops to get built not too slowly... not a big fan of size 2 settlers.
I can understand your reluctance to go for Archery, with the No Huts setting. Since I play with huts on, the extra investment put into Archery is usually inexpensive compared to the benefit it provides.
When you get your 2nd city, barbarian attacks will be more fierce, so you will need to be ready to defend your cities by then. In the interest of avoiding the situation of settling two defenseless cities, you may want to focus on building up your seafood resources now so that when the territory has been mapped completely, you can expand very quickly with good troops to protect your cities.
I probably will have a few warriors queued before the first settler to fogbust a bit and defend cities... it depends on AI proximity as well ofc.
Archery can be a choice but it's too early to say.
If I play this map, I'll start with Mining=>BW and Fish boat=>Worker. The first worker will be built at the same time when BW is finished. Then chop one more fish boat or two (one for clam another for scouting if the birth place is isolated.). Chop the first settler when cap is 4 pop.
If the map is crowed, Hunting=>Archery is probably not needed. If neighbors are far away, take Archery and in this case Agriculture is too good to skip.
I fully agree with this. It has yielded the best results in tests.
I agree with this plan. There are too many forests near the capital to delay BW. But every additional forest means one more tile that cannot be a Horse or Copper...which means greater likelihood that you will need Archery to defend your cities.
Oh how I wish to avoid Archery this time...
Basically you need at least to see city cross to decide. Maybe he got 3pigs in fog
.
Overall i'd go worker first. Close call but not having plain hill forest makes boat first a bit worse. [Unririgated corn and clams, imo, are pretty equal and fog shows unforested hills to be improved on mining.]
But that is just me. I am in general afraid to start with boats as these often cause delay in development...
I am doubting the presence of 3 pigs... at the very most there will be a plains hill sheep. (Only 2 tiles unforested, one being a flood plain and the other a plains hill). Plains hill sheep is pretty bad for food even though it has a good overall yield... I'd rather get a boat and have BW in hands I think.
I'm glad to see this opening being supported here. I used the exact same one in the current EC Willem game, but also whipped the settler after chops. It felt pretty strong, so I'd say go for it.
Aye aye!
My BTS doesn't work at the moment so I can't try the game. According to what we can see now:
1) If Agri=>Mining=>BW and Worker=>Workboat. t15 Worker. t22 cap = 2 pop.
2) If Mining=>Bw and Workboat=>Worker. t11 cap=2pop. t13 Workboat. t25 Worker.
Considering in Option 2 we can chop trees immediately with the first worker, in fact Option 2 is no worse in production and much better in commerce. (got one clam and the second in t29) 2 commerce from clams is crucial for Toku I reckon.
Moreover, in this kind of environment (much jungle), the biggest limit to expansion is usually Bar rather than hammers. To gain 2 commerce from clam and to beeline Archery is worth trying. (It depends how far they neighbors are as well of course)
Exactly... time the workboat with pop2 > worker > ??? > profit.
These are the hardest to determine. If it were irrigated/riverside corn, then worker first is obvious. But the wb-first crowd is tough to manage. You'd work the 1/2 while building the wb, right?
Not really. It's been shown that while building a wb, it's better to work either a 3
or 3
tile. dingding's plan might bring the workboat in a little slower than 1F2H but the worker will come out faster than a regular 1-pop worker working a clams.
1/2 means the tile with 1F2H?
If building workboat as the first unit, there are several choices. My principle is that the cap should grow to 2 pop when finish the boat. Options are:
1) Work on 2/1 tile till pop 2, t11 pop=2. Then two pops work on 1/2. t13 Workboat .
2) Work on 3/0 tile t6, t7 work on 1/2. t8 pop = 2. Then two pops work on 1/2. t12 Workboat.
The micro depends on the tiles as well.
Exactly. From the fog I'm reading 1F2H, 2F1H, 2H and 3F1C tiles (unless a forest grows to give a 3H tile) so the plan looks great.
I'm interested in those two bfc tiles that we can't see yet that don't appear to have trees. Could there be another resource 2N1E of the settler that might strengthen the case for worker first?
FP and plains hill. Seafood counts as 2/3 resource, flood plain as 1/3 I think and corn = 1. So 3 seafood+corn+fp = 3.333... there might not be anything else although that unforested hill is suspicious given the forest spam. Maybe sheep or bronze/iron?
I just posted at the end of #26 how you should do tokug next hehe
Just finished a game with him myself actually and although he is crap in terms of economic help, drafted rifles are killer with all those free promos. Hope to see them getting some good exercise here.
Coastal starts always irritate me a bit, I'm never sure quite how to time the wb/workboat production for optimum growth. Always seems slower than straight land worker-first start.
Yea, that was my feeling as well... but the worker doesn't have enough good things to improve... farming a flood plain takes so long too... better to chop a workboat and mine a hill.
A - you are incalculating fact that 2n1e is most likely FP? [which means one extra coin while growing on worker [which gets worked longer than building workboat]]
B- saying that chopping beats mines hammer wise is not exactly correct. Trees are not unlimited resource.
A. correct
B. Also correct. I guess short term vs long term is implied, but short term is more important right now.
I don't normally post, but I have done a lot of reading on these boards, which has improved my game to the point where I win less than half the time on immortal level. Kossin's inspired me to start getting my hat handed to me at the deity level, so I thought I'd shadow this one and post my progress along the way
Advice is greatly appreciated, but please remember spoiler tags, I've played a few turns here and I don't want to spoil Kossin's game
Welcome to the forums!
Can't look at the shadow now but I will sometime in the future. Glad to see your game is improving.
I don't know where to go from here, but I would bet you have some strategic resource in your BFC. Don't you start with at least one due to the map generator/balancer? I would bet Iron or Horses
No horses for certain. Iron/Bronze perhaps, we'll see.
. There is really not enough land there for 3 civilizations. I guess on this level a 2 civ rush is out of the question? Well you can always see how it looks after the first one 
