Dr kossin #27
- Thread starter kossin
- Start date
Round 3
What a crazy round. I think I've lost about a gallon of sweat! I played part of it yesterday and some more this morning. Hopefully I don't screw things too much.
I don't have that many pictures of the military buildup as I felt it wasn't too important. I built Axes before Construction was in, with a few spears for horses and Archers for city garrison. HBR came before Construction to give Kyoto the time to build a Stable. Come Construction, Kyoto focused on War Elephants and the rest on Catapults with a War Elephant here and there.
As Liz would have it, she built the Shwedagon Paya in London and promptly converted to Free Religion. ??????????
That was excellent because it meant she couldn't bribe Mehmed to war anymore... switch targets!
I got some trades going with Joao and Mehmed to not fall too hopelessly behind on Classical techs.
Once my SoD was nearing 30 units strong, I looked at the date and it was looking pretty late so I took a gamble and declared war in 175AD and waited inside my borders. Scouting had revealed that Liz's forces were concentrated in York and I wouldn't be able to take it head on there.
Now the good thing about Elizabeth is her low unitprob and the fact that she got Feudalism late compared to the other AIs... meaning she has a little bit less units requiring killing.
2 turns later, as expected, she landed her stack next to Osaka. That really is not that impressive for a Deity AI.
I sent the War Elephants first and they all won their fight.
Next were a few catapults (only 1 died iIrc) to soften up the rest and Melee Axes would mop up the stack.
This gave me a Great General, which was used for a Medic III unit.
Part of the gamble required the peaceweights to do their job... let's just say they delivered.
By 375AD, York is mine.
Heal up before sending the troops towards London. I left some units to protect York in case Liz managed to get fancy and try to take it back.
Around this time, I finally got Civil Service and traded it to Mehmed... at this point I'm pretty backwards and must carefully decide what to research next to be able to trade a bit.
I kept my cities busy meanwhile, building more troops for backup. I caught Liz's skirts down and got reckless to take advantage of it.
Back at London, I was facing some much more tougher opposition... well, more opposition only to be truthful.
Up until now, Mehmed captured Newcastle, which is a bit southwest of London.
2 turns later however, Elizabeth paid him for Peace, with Guilds and another tech I can't remember.
After I finally realized that I could revolt to Theocracy, I opted out of Vassalage to Bureaucracy.
Iron was almost within my grasp... just a few more turns and this trade.
After resting, my troops fought on to liberate the 2 western English cities. Those were costly on the Catapults.
I got another trade with Mehmed. Not the best ever but it helped.
And finally, the last western city.
By now, my numbers are pretty worn out but Samurais are coming out and their odds against bombarded cities are just incredible... I might yet continue a few turns to kill her.
The most worrying sight is my tech situation.
Diplo could be better too...
What's left of England...
The price for peace
New Japan
Finally, Mehmed's new SoD
Liberalism is long gone, to Joao (560AD). I can't remember what he took but I think it was a marginal tech (not Nationalism, her only recently got it).
So this is where I now stand. Far away in techs but with a glimmer of hope I guess. I'm lacking in pretty much every department right now but I'd say it looks a hell of a lot better.
An Axe rush wouldn't have worked. I guess I got too stuck in the 4-city catapult mindset and didn't expand aggressively enough with the available land. A later strike could have been much more profitable.
I forgot to focus espionage on a side note... *gets shot*
Printing Press is a place holder. I'm hoping to get a Great Scientist to help bulb Education... that would get me more techs and get me back on my feet.
Not out of the woods but I can still win this I think. Drafted Rifles should do a good job against Izzy if I can get there before she hits Infantry/Machine Guns.
What a crazy round. I think I've lost about a gallon of sweat! I played part of it yesterday and some more this morning. Hopefully I don't screw things too much.
I don't have that many pictures of the military buildup as I felt it wasn't too important. I built Axes before Construction was in, with a few spears for horses and Archers for city garrison. HBR came before Construction to give Kyoto the time to build a Stable. Come Construction, Kyoto focused on War Elephants and the rest on Catapults with a War Elephant here and there.
As Liz would have it, she built the Shwedagon Paya in London and promptly converted to Free Religion. ??????????
That was excellent because it meant she couldn't bribe Mehmed to war anymore... switch targets!
I got some trades going with Joao and Mehmed to not fall too hopelessly behind on Classical techs.
Spoiler :
Once my SoD was nearing 30 units strong, I looked at the date and it was looking pretty late so I took a gamble and declared war in 175AD and waited inside my borders. Scouting had revealed that Liz's forces were concentrated in York and I wouldn't be able to take it head on there.
Now the good thing about Elizabeth is her low unitprob and the fact that she got Feudalism late compared to the other AIs... meaning she has a little bit less units requiring killing.
2 turns later, as expected, she landed her stack next to Osaka. That really is not that impressive for a Deity AI.
Spoiler :
I sent the War Elephants first and they all won their fight.
Next were a few catapults (only 1 died iIrc) to soften up the rest and Melee Axes would mop up the stack.
Spoiler :
This gave me a Great General, which was used for a Medic III unit.
Part of the gamble required the peaceweights to do their job... let's just say they delivered.
Spoiler :
By 375AD, York is mine.
Spoiler :
Heal up before sending the troops towards London. I left some units to protect York in case Liz managed to get fancy and try to take it back.
Around this time, I finally got Civil Service and traded it to Mehmed... at this point I'm pretty backwards and must carefully decide what to research next to be able to trade a bit.
Spoiler :
I kept my cities busy meanwhile, building more troops for backup. I caught Liz's skirts down and got reckless to take advantage of it.
Spoiler :
Back at London, I was facing some much more tougher opposition... well, more opposition only to be truthful.
Spoiler :
Up until now, Mehmed captured Newcastle, which is a bit southwest of London.
2 turns later however, Elizabeth paid him for Peace, with Guilds and another tech I can't remember.
Spoiler :
After I finally realized that I could revolt to Theocracy, I opted out of Vassalage to Bureaucracy.
Spoiler :
Iron was almost within my grasp... just a few more turns and this trade.
Spoiler :
After resting, my troops fought on to liberate the 2 western English cities. Those were costly on the Catapults.
Spoiler :
I got another trade with Mehmed. Not the best ever but it helped.
Spoiler :
And finally, the last western city.
Spoiler :
By now, my numbers are pretty worn out but Samurais are coming out and their odds against bombarded cities are just incredible... I might yet continue a few turns to kill her.
The most worrying sight is my tech situation.
Spoiler :
Diplo could be better too...
Spoiler :
What's left of England...
Spoiler :
The price for peace
Spoiler :
New Japan
Spoiler :
Finally, Mehmed's new SoD
Spoiler :
Liberalism is long gone, to Joao (560AD). I can't remember what he took but I think it was a marginal tech (not Nationalism, her only recently got it).
So this is where I now stand. Far away in techs but with a glimmer of hope I guess. I'm lacking in pretty much every department right now but I'd say it looks a hell of a lot better.
An Axe rush wouldn't have worked. I guess I got too stuck in the 4-city catapult mindset and didn't expand aggressively enough with the available land. A later strike could have been much more profitable.
I forgot to focus espionage on a side note... *gets shot*
Printing Press is a place holder. I'm hoping to get a Great Scientist to help bulb Education... that would get me more techs and get me back on my feet.
Not out of the woods but I can still win this I think. Drafted Rifles should do a good job against Izzy if I can get there before she hits Infantry/Machine Guns.
JensenUVA
Chieftain
@Kossin I think you did an excellent job with the micromanagement of the capital in the early part... it's shocking to me how small the margin of error is on deity, I had essentially the same plan but failed to get the 3rd settler to the sheep location, ending up with only 4 cities and fewer resources than I had hoped...
Also waited too long to mine the gold at Tokyo and all of a sudden I'm 400 or 500 years behind getting Aesthetics, and unable to declare war w/ a stack of around 10 elephants 5 catapults + 6 axe/spears until around 400AD or so... even I knew that was wayyyy too slow but I just wasn't really sure that I had any other options at that point... it was already after Mehmed and LIzzy had declared peace
I took Warwick for one turn, but it was recaptured immediately, my whole stack with it... and then a stack of english horse archers took Osaka just before 740AD and I just called it quits.
Saves attached from 1AD and the very end if anyone cares to comment on what went wrong here, I think the main thing was 1) failing to micromanage the capital and early cities to maximize production, I'm sure I lost 5 to 10 turns this way (and untold food/prod/commerce from getting a poor location for the 4th city) and I won't win on deity doing that... and 2) I didn't check often enough for tech/resource trades, I should've been able to parlay those clams into a few extra happy resources and grown the cities more
Also waited too long to mine the gold at Tokyo and all of a sudden I'm 400 or 500 years behind getting Aesthetics, and unable to declare war w/ a stack of around 10 elephants 5 catapults + 6 axe/spears until around 400AD or so... even I knew that was wayyyy too slow but I just wasn't really sure that I had any other options at that point... it was already after Mehmed and LIzzy had declared peace
I took Warwick for one turn, but it was recaptured immediately, my whole stack with it... and then a stack of english horse archers took Osaka just before 740AD and I just called it quits.
Saves attached from 1AD and the very end if anyone cares to comment on what went wrong here, I think the main thing was 1) failing to micromanage the capital and early cities to maximize production, I'm sure I lost 5 to 10 turns this way (and untold food/prod/commerce from getting a poor location for the 4th city) and I won't win on deity doing that... and 2) I didn't check often enough for tech/resource trades, I should've been able to parlay those clams into a few extra happy resources and grown the cities more
JammerUno
King
Finish off Lizzie and concentrate on getting GP to bulb yourself back into parity, you're in the part of the techtree that's most favourable for this approach. GA then caste/paci for a couple of fast GPs, you have the MoM so it should be doable.
How much did you whip? Kyoto is food heavy and if you whip aggressively while trading for happy resources, you can get a lot of job done there (while being careful not too whip too much and taking the good tiles away).
Similarly, most of my cities were focused on food/hammers rather than cottages to help with the whip.
Sounds like a plan. Guess I just need a good trading chip before I have enough techs to take on Izzy. Mehmed can wait at bombers or sooner if he doesn't beeline the right techs.
I sure am remembering it now, that's for sure!I think there's no problem to pull a win from your current position. You only need some bulbs to fill the tech hole. There are also 2 unknown AIs oversea who should not be too advanced. You'll remember this game more than others.
So bulbs -> trade -> parity looks like a sound plan. Let's see how it works out in the game.
shyuhe
Deity
At the stage of the game that your GG was born, I'm pretty sure settling would have been stronger than a medic. Yes it slows down your troop movement, but the second promo pre-theology and vassalage is immensely powerful. Other than that, well played so far!
It doesn't look like Liz will vassal to Izzy so I'd consider taking peace here. Yes it'd be nice to liberate the culture from London and York but I think you need to re-build your economy so that you don't fall too far from the tech pace. Coventry and Nottingham are both decent candidates for GT. I'm assuming Kyoto gets the NE, if you haven't built it already?
It doesn't look like Liz will vassal to Izzy so I'd consider taking peace here. Yes it'd be nice to liberate the culture from London and York but I think you need to re-build your economy so that you don't fall too far from the tech pace. Coventry and Nottingham are both decent candidates for GT. I'm assuming Kyoto gets the NE, if you haven't built it already?
JensenUVA
Chieftain
Not enough... I didn't really trade for happy resources which was the problem, don't ask me why I think the brain was just switched off.
Round 4a
As you can guess by the round title, this is a two-parter. Yea, I was a busy bee with my hands full, if you see what I mean.
I kept the war with Elizabeth going, her last few cities shouldn't be too hard to take now that Samurais are online. Moreover, it gave them good practice!
Also, I maxed specialists in Kyoto to get the next Great Person out as fast as possible. I later built the National Epic there and it's become a multi-purpose hybrid city, generating GPP and a bunch of commerce.
I didn't have to wait long until the first GP was born, a Scientist. As much as it hurts to not bulb him, he triggered a Golden Age with the hopes of summoning more of his peers.
To aid in this task, I revolted to the usual Caste+Pacifism. No slavery meant the war would go more slow but I had planned on this and whipped more heavily in the turns coming up to the switch.
At 1010AD, the first of the unknown civs showed up.
After bombarding culture, here are the odds for a Samurai to attack fully healed Maces hiding in a city...
Needless to say, York fell easily enough.
I finally managed to get a tech someone didn't have and used it for a double-trade.
As the Golden Age faded away, I revolted into more peaceful civics while trying to appease the religious strife.
The Golden Age was successful in netting me 3 Great Persons, 2 Scientists in Kyoto and on the very last turn, a Prophet in London.
Around this time I managed to trade for Saladin's map, revealing the last AI, Justinian.
Meanwhile, the English war was still going on as I captured yet another city.
3 turns later, I finally got to the gates of Oxford. After bombarding the culture, here are the odds vs a Longbow...
I used one of the Scientists to bulb part of Education. I went for Gunpowder next as it wasn't widely spread but I waited 1 turn too many to trade it to Izzy.
The second Scientist bulbed part of Chemistry which was much more successful for trading:
I was planning on trading with Mehmed shortly but he came by demanding Chermistry. I agreed to let it go in hopes of bumping him to Friendly (didn't work).
I met Justinian in 1380AD and thankfully, he was a bit behind the rest of the flock.
On turn 200, 1400AD, Mehmed decided to get some leg room for his troops and declared war against the Spanish!
...Continued...
As you can guess by the round title, this is a two-parter. Yea, I was a busy bee with my hands full, if you see what I mean.
I kept the war with Elizabeth going, her last few cities shouldn't be too hard to take now that Samurais are online. Moreover, it gave them good practice!
Also, I maxed specialists in Kyoto to get the next Great Person out as fast as possible. I later built the National Epic there and it's become a multi-purpose hybrid city, generating GPP and a bunch of commerce.
I didn't have to wait long until the first GP was born, a Scientist. As much as it hurts to not bulb him, he triggered a Golden Age with the hopes of summoning more of his peers.
Spoiler :
To aid in this task, I revolted to the usual Caste+Pacifism. No slavery meant the war would go more slow but I had planned on this and whipped more heavily in the turns coming up to the switch.
Spoiler :
At 1010AD, the first of the unknown civs showed up.
Spoiler :
After bombarding culture, here are the odds for a Samurai to attack fully healed Maces hiding in a city...
Spoiler :
Needless to say, York fell easily enough.
Spoiler :
I finally managed to get a tech someone didn't have and used it for a double-trade.
Spoiler :
As the Golden Age faded away, I revolted into more peaceful civics while trying to appease the religious strife.
Spoiler :
The Golden Age was successful in netting me 3 Great Persons, 2 Scientists in Kyoto and on the very last turn, a Prophet in London.
Spoiler :
Around this time I managed to trade for Saladin's map, revealing the last AI, Justinian.
Spoiler :
Meanwhile, the English war was still going on as I captured yet another city.
Spoiler :
3 turns later, I finally got to the gates of Oxford. After bombarding the culture, here are the odds vs a Longbow...
Spoiler :
I used one of the Scientists to bulb part of Education. I went for Gunpowder next as it wasn't widely spread but I waited 1 turn too many to trade it to Izzy.
Spoiler :
The second Scientist bulbed part of Chemistry which was much more successful for trading:
Spoiler :
I was planning on trading with Mehmed shortly but he came by demanding Chermistry. I agreed to let it go in hopes of bumping him to Friendly (didn't work).
Spoiler :
I met Justinian in 1380AD and thankfully, he was a bit behind the rest of the flock.
Spoiler :
On turn 200, 1400AD, Mehmed decided to get some leg room for his troops and declared war against the Spanish!
Spoiler :
...Continued...
Round 4b
As I had mentioned, Justinian was a bit behind so we helped each other by trading together.
Kyoto spat out another GP, this time an Artist. He went perfectly well with the Prophet that was sleeping for my second Golden Age of the game.
I also managed to get my hands on a few more techs via trading.
Despite I didn't have time to build the Globe Theater, I revolted into Nationhood regardless and began drafting Agg/Pro Rifles. Citizens working non-cottage tiles are prime candidates for drafting and I had a bunch of those.
I had a bit over 40 units massed up in Osaka when Mehmed came by demanding help:
I took every opportunity to trade with Justinian, it allowed me to not fall behind too much.
Once again, I was fighting Machine Guns that Isabella managed to get right after I declared war. As per last game, they don't fare so well against a bunch of suiciding cannons...
Meanwhile, Mehmed was busy bombarding Santiago with his massive SoD of few siege units hehe. I closed borders with him so he wouldn't send too many additional troops, giving me a much better chance at doing my work.
I had a second stack assemble in the north which attacked Corboda to relieve the culture pressure over there.
Once Mehmed captured Santiago, his forces were still pretty impressive. To avoid him Capitulating Izzy or capturing more of her cities, I bought Peace.
With CRIII rifles upgraded from Samurais and sufficient Cannons, Izzy slowly began to disappear...
Joao is the tech leader this game, despite being the smallest of the real civs left. He's built just about every wonder since The Kremlin, including the UN.
Izzy couldn't put up any more resistance as she watched her empire crumble under her feet.
I hit enter to get rid of war weariness and here's the situation now.
Japan has assimilated both England and Spain to now sit on top of the scoreboard at 21 cities.
Tech situation. I'm still behind but research is picking up and I should be able to get the important techs relatively soon.
Diplo isn't as good as it should be.
Victory conditions
Finally, the cost of war:
I think Joao's full hands are aimed at Justinian who DoW'd him during the round. His closest city to me doesn't have that much units but I should still be careful.
As I had mentioned, Justinian was a bit behind so we helped each other by trading together.
Spoiler :
Kyoto spat out another GP, this time an Artist. He went perfectly well with the Prophet that was sleeping for my second Golden Age of the game.
Spoiler :
I also managed to get my hands on a few more techs via trading.
Spoiler :
Despite I didn't have time to build the Globe Theater, I revolted into Nationhood regardless and began drafting Agg/Pro Rifles. Citizens working non-cottage tiles are prime candidates for drafting and I had a bunch of those.
I had a bit over 40 units massed up in Osaka when Mehmed came by demanding help:
Spoiler :
I took every opportunity to trade with Justinian, it allowed me to not fall behind too much.
Spoiler :
Once again, I was fighting Machine Guns that Isabella managed to get right after I declared war. As per last game, they don't fare so well against a bunch of suiciding cannons...
Spoiler :
Meanwhile, Mehmed was busy bombarding Santiago with his massive SoD of few siege units hehe. I closed borders with him so he wouldn't send too many additional troops, giving me a much better chance at doing my work.
I had a second stack assemble in the north which attacked Corboda to relieve the culture pressure over there.
Spoiler :
Once Mehmed captured Santiago, his forces were still pretty impressive. To avoid him Capitulating Izzy or capturing more of her cities, I bought Peace.
Spoiler :
With CRIII rifles upgraded from Samurais and sufficient Cannons, Izzy slowly began to disappear...
Spoiler :
Joao is the tech leader this game, despite being the smallest of the real civs left. He's built just about every wonder since The Kremlin, including the UN.
Spoiler :
Izzy couldn't put up any more resistance as she watched her empire crumble under her feet.
Spoiler :
I hit enter to get rid of war weariness and here's the situation now.
Japan has assimilated both England and Spain to now sit on top of the scoreboard at 21 cities.
Tech situation. I'm still behind but research is picking up and I should be able to get the important techs relatively soon.
Spoiler :
Diplo isn't as good as it should be.
Spoiler :
Victory conditions
Spoiler :
Finally, the cost of war:
Spoiler :
I think Joao's full hands are aimed at Justinian who DoW'd him during the round. His closest city to me doesn't have that much units but I should still be careful.
shyuhe
Deity
Saladin and Justinian voted for you at cautious? 
shyuhe
Deity
^ Yes but the diplo shot posted indicates that they like Joao more.
Artichoker
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2007
- Messages
- 1,711
Amazing work! Looks like the hard part is behind you now...
Civahaulic
Chieftain
kossin: what is that mod that you have that shows the percentage chance of how many HP your unit will have after combat? I haven't seen that before.
also:
so is it just the bottom 2 trading with each other? or is there a more detailed breakdown of this?
also:
so is it just the bottom 2 trading with each other? or is there a more detailed breakdown of this?
shyuhe
Deity
WFYABTA does not apply if both civs are in the bottom half of the scoreboard.
timmy827
King
I also had question. I know that, but I thought any tech traded would still go on the WFYABTA counter for civs on the upper half of the scoreboard.
