Dragon Golems/Life III absurdly powerful?

[Pyr0mancer]

Abashi/Eurabatres + Flesh Golem + Life III results in absurdly powerful flesh golems... as in 30+ base strength.

Keep adding the dragon to the golem and resurrecting until the golem reaches the same strength as the dragon, then add in a warrior (Bronze), a longbowman (Iron, Flaming Arrows), Chariot (Mithril, possibly Nightmare), and Recon (Poisoned Blade).

That's 21 base strength (Abashi), +7 for weapons upgrades, +1 fire, +1 poison for 30 base strength. Then, if you've got Nightmares and Sheut stones that's another +1 and +1 Death, then toss in a mutant with Strong for another +1. That's 33 base strength, which is higher than every other unit in the game. Using Eurabatres for the basis of your dragon golem results in one that's even stronger.

What I'm saying is... Resurrection is WAY overpowered right now, since it costs nothing to cast. Perhaps it should cost the Life III promotion so you can't repeat it quite so often?

 

[cyther]

Doing it as the Calabim might take a bit of work but an army of immortal fleshies would be fun.

 

[smjjames]

That sounds like a godlike unit or something, I wonder if it's possible to merge the avatars like Meshabber or Mithril Golem into the Flesh golem?

If the borg were in the game, they would definetly be flesh golems, with thier ability to assimilate things.

 

[Pyr0mancer]

That sounds like a godlike unit or something, I wonder if it's possible to merge the avatars like Meshabber or Mithril Golem into the Flesh golem?

If the borg were in the game, they would definetly be flesh golems, with thier ability to assimilate things.

Meshabber is a Demon and the Mithril Golem is a well, golem, so they can't be added in due to not being alive.

And yes, they are insanely godlike. I had a pair built on Abashi, each at 33 strength (as described above), Combat V, Empower V (from Tigers), Flanking III, Mobility II, Waterwalking, March, Drill IV, and eventually got Heroic Strength/Defense I, from mutations to toss in too. I checked out a few of the combat logs, and my uber-golems were killing enemies with their first strikes alone.

Oh and another note, you also get to build the Shrine of the Champion too since you 'lost' your civ hero . The Shrine of the Champion, Ride of the Nine Kings, and any other XP-boosting things helped a lot with the higher-end promos (Combat, Flanking, Drill).

 

[Fenboy]

Seems a simple enough exploit to fix, just block anything with the Hero promotion from being turned into a flesh golem.

 

[Pyr0mancer]

Seems a simple enough exploit to fix, just block anything with the Hero promotion from being turned into a flesh golem.

Neither Abashi nor Eurabatres have the Hero promotion anyway.

 

[Darksaber1]

Seems a simple enough exploit to fix, just block anything with the Hero promotion from being turned into a flesh golem.

Awww. Well do they still have alimit?
Edit: Wait, if the dragon is the first unit addid, does the golem gain dragon?

 

[smjjames]

All of those promotions he mentioned could be easily obtained through non-hero units, arcane and disciple units for example. While the golem can't use the magic promotions, the combat promotions gained can be used.

It would be especially easy if you use vampires, I don't think the vampire promotion can actually be used by the flesh golem though.

 

[Pyr0mancer]

Nah, Dragon is a Racial promotion, so Golem blocks it. They still do get Magic Immune though.

Also, the dragon-based flesh golems aren't insanely powerful because of the promotions, those are just icing. They're absurdly powerful due to the fact that when you graft in a unit, if its strength is higher than the golem's it raises it. Therefore, by repeatedly adding in a dragon you keep boosting the golem's strength until it's the same, THEN add in the weapons promotions and other strength-boosters since those are a fixed amount to get the remaining dozen points or so.

Vampire just gives the golem the benefits of the increased heal rate, which is actually pretty useful.

Magic promotions actually now CAN be used, since the spells are now granted by the Sphere promotions. The golem only gets Channeling and Divine stripped from it, so it retains the ability to cast any arcane spells.

 

[cabbagemeister]

A vampire flesh golem can use Feast and get XP, but it can't spend the XP. I'm not sure if it can use Feed or Gift Vampirism...my guess would be yes.

 

[Pyr0mancer]

A vampire flesh golem can use Feast and get XP, but it can't spend the XP. I'm not sure if it can use Feed or Gift Vampirism...my guess would be yes.

Rather, a Calabim vampire flesh golem can use Feast. Also not sure on Feed but probably yes, but they can use Gift Vampirism regardless of who owns them.

 

[smusebaer]

My little Fleshgolemexploid was massproduction of Archmages with the Amburites. 30 Fleshgolems with spells like a Archmage, move 4 and flying realy is no problem. Of course, if I had a very strong Monster and life 3 with those Fleshgolems...
Hmmm how many times can you resurrect a Monster (or Hero?) with life 3 during one turn?

 

[smjjames]

Nah, Dragon is a Racial promotion, so Golem blocks it. They still do get Magic Immune though.

Also, the dragon-based flesh golems aren't insanely powerful because of the promotions, those are just icing. They're absurdly powerful due to the fact that when you graft in a unit, if its strength is higher than the golem's it raises it. Therefore, by repeatedly adding in a dragon you keep boosting the golem's strength until it's the same, THEN add in the weapons promotions and other strength-boosters since those are a fixed amount to get the remaining dozen points or so.

Vampire just gives the golem the benefits of the increased heal rate, which is actually pretty useful.

Magic promotions actually now CAN be used, since the spells are now granted by the Sphere promotions. The golem only gets Channeling and Divine stripped from it, so it retains the ability to cast any arcane spells.

lol, I can picture someone going nuts with the adepts and mages, getting various branches, then assimilating them into the flesh golem. The same effect could work with Mobius Witches.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

It'd be nice if it was possible for a unit to be neither alive nor dead, so if you golemed a hero you couldn't bring it back with ressurection.

 

[smjjames]

It'd be nice if it was possible for a unit to be neither alive nor dead, so if you golemed a hero you couldn't bring it back with ressurection.

wouldn't that just make it an UNdead unit? I think there is already an undead racial promotion.

 

[Darksaber1]

Undead: A being brought back to life after death.
Not Dead: Not dead yet
Lich: Died in special ritual, so as to not really died.
Sidar: Never Died, kept in-between by feading on their own soul
Vampire: Never Died, kept in-between by feading on blood
That Which is not Dead: can eternal lie, even after death it's self has perished.
Shade (as in Fancy named ghost): Incaporeal undead
Edit: At least, this is as I see it.

 

[jimi12]

most all heroes have the hero promotion. it should be easy enough to not allow units with the dragon or hero promotion to be added to a flesh golem. that would cover all resurrectable living heros.

 

[Pyr0mancer]

My little Fleshgolemexploid was massproduction of Archmages with the Amburites. 30 Fleshgolems with spells like a Archmage, move 4 and flying realy is no problem. Of course, if I had a very strong Monster and life 3 with those Fleshgolems...
Hmmm how many times can you resurrect a Monster (or Hero?) with life 3 during one turn?

As many times as you have casters . I only had 2 Mobius Witches that had Life, which became my dragon-resurrecters. Resurrection only resurrects your civ-hero, so only Sheaim and Kuriotates really can create insanely-high-strength Flesh Golems using it. Everyone else just has to settle for 20-odd strength.

I noticed something else while Goleming Abashi: you can only sacrifice her once via the Demons' Altar. Is it possible to make Graft Flesh only castable once per unit? It would only affect civ-heroes, but would serve the purpose of preventing you from repeatedly Goleming them.

I don't like the idea of not being able to graft Heroes or Dragons. I've grafted Acheron before just to get the Magic Immunity and get some use out of him (stupid slow dragon).

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Shades are the same as the Sidar, and they are not incorporeal (or incaporeal) or undead.



I'm thinking that units with World Limits should be blocked from grafting.

 

[xienwolf]

I'm not checking things, so could be wrong. But I think that the Altar requires that the unit has some XP, that is why you couldn't re-sac Abashi.