Dragons Can't Fly

[Tarquelne]

Let me know if I'm misunderstanding you.

You're misunderstanding me.

The point is that while some planes - and birds - can go over some mountains not every plane - or bird - can go over oceans. The ability to cross oceans does not inevitably follow from the ability to go over mountains. (See also: Legs.)

Also, there's no real reason why dragons can't go over the ocean...I urge you and others to either look for more info or show me info that proves Dragons can't do anything..

We are not going to give Dragons all powers not explicitly ruled out by the "lore."

And there my point is not that Dragons are definetly incapable of flying X distance. (I said "if we want...") Just that there's an easy "realistic" - note the quotes - rationalization available for explaining why they can't.

 

[zup]

Making them fly is not a big deal, requires 4 lines of xml iirc. You want it but the team doesn't, do it yourself.

 

[Valkrionn]

Dragons were the most powerful weapons created by the gods. As such, if we gave them all the powers the lore attributes to them they should be unstoppable by all but another dragon, or Auric Ascended. Obviously, that doesn't work. I'm personally in favor of giving them flight, if just because I'm tired of having my dragon transport taken out by hordes of sea monsters that the dragon would be able to take care of easily . Like Zup mentioned though, it's trivial to add flight... Simply change a 0 to a 1 for each dragon in one line of code.

 

[cIV_khanh93]

I don't think the argument here is over balance issues. As WarKirby said, it is whether "it would logically fit."

Besides, since dragons currently do not fly, and what is being debated is adding the flying ability, your argument "they are uber units" would be just as valid to start all dragons off with combat II promotion, or with canabilize, or drop all their production costs by 100. Unless you have a specific argument as to adding flying?

I se your point. Other than the fact it fits thematically, putting a dragon on a ship has issues gameplaywise. im not getting my dragon sunk! Shouldn't the most powerful thing in creation be powerful enough to lead an intercontinental invasion? leave the ships to the centarus...

 

[zup]

I was talking about these lines. Have to add it for every dragon though.

<FreePromotion>
<PromotionType>PROMOTION_FLYING</PromotionType>
<bFreePromotion>1</bFreePromotion>
</FreePromotion>

By the way, anybody else has almost unreadable xml files? At least Notepad shows them funny.

 

[Randomness]

Get notepad++ much better. A simple free download.

 

[TimSLS]

I se your point. Other than the fact it fits thematically, putting a dragon on a ship has issues gameplaywise. im not getting my dragon sunk! Shouldn't the most powerful thing in creation be powerful enough to lead an intercontinental invasion? leave the ships to the centarus...

And I see your point - there is a lot of weirdness as it currently stands, not being able to cross a one tile lake, dragons on ships....

 

[deadliver]

I suspect there are birds that have wings do cross mountains but don't cross oceans. There are certainly airplanes like that.

The point about lakes is better. OTOH - just how big are these lakes on the map? It could matter.

Personally I like the idea of giving dragons wings - there could be AI issues, though, if the AI likes to send it's uberheros off to die alone - but if we want a "realistic" explanation for not doing so one's at hand: They're too big to fly for an extended period. They can "hop" up and down mountains by resting frequently. They can use this limited flight to devastating effect in battle. But they don't have the range to cross an ocean before becoming too tired to fly.

Heh heh I love giving Acheron movement points and fly promo near the beginning of the game. Heh he clears the map so good.

 

[WarKirby]

I'm trying to give dragons flying in my own little mod.


Seems like the simplest way though, would be to add flying to the Dragon racial promo. how would I do this?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Add <bFlying>1</bFlying> right below <bFear>1</bFear>

 

[Sephi]

in the Dragon Promotion add
<bFlying>1</bFlying>
under the <bFear> stuff

 

[WarKirby]

Thanks magister, but that's not working.

I did think of that already, then loaded up a game where I had Coatlann. His dragon promo now says "grants the unit the ability to fly" but he still can't enter water.

am I doing something wrong? Will it not take effect in an existing game? It's a hotseat MP if that's relevant

 

[MagisterCultuum]

That sounds odd. It should work.


Now that I think of it, I vaguely remember that sometimes when you change the effects of a promotion and then reload a saved game the effects won't be updated on units that already had the promotion. If that is the problem here, then using Worldbuilder to remove the promotion and then add it back should fit it. (Or rather it would if you could use WB in a multiplayer game.) Rest assured though, when an enemy builds a dragon to use against you it should have the ability.

 

[WarKirby]

Rest assured though, when an enemy builds a dragon to use against you it should have the ability.

no way to make it work for coatlann? Or perhaps some way to enable the WB in a hotseat game?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I don't think so. A while back Kael added a hidden debug option that supposedly let you use WB in multiplayer games, but it didn't actually do anything but make the button show up on the menu. Since he couldn't get it to really work, Kael removed it.

I've asked Xienwolf to look into making a working version of that option, but so far he hasn't really shown any interest in doing so.

 

[Seon]

God, wrong thread

 

[WarKirby]

As a possible alternate, then....
If I build Blood of the Phoenix, making coatlann immortal, and then get him killed, will he be able to fly when he respawns?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I'm not sure, but I don't think so. I think that Immortality just teleports the unit before it dies, it doesn't create a new one with newly applied promotions.

However, if you get him killed and then bring him back via the Life III spell it should create a new instance of him with a newly applied promotion that should let him fly. You'll loose all the other promotions, but the resurrected Coatlann should be as good as a newly built one.

 

[WarKirby]

how about capturing acheron? will he be flyable if I capture him with a Beastmaster?

 

[xienwolf]

Magister is right about what your issue is (most of the way there).

What you did was to modify what the promotion "Dragon" does for a unit. Problem is that promotions only alter the unit when they are actually applied (except for a very few where it is easier to scan all promotions when you wonder about it). So the way to get Dragon to provide Flying would be to either create a completely new Coatlann via Worldbuilder and then modify him to have the same promotions/XP/Level as the old one, OR to change the XML back to normal (non-flying), load the game, Worldbuilder to remove Dragon from Coatlann, save, exit, add Flying to Dragon, load the game, Worldbuilder to replace Dragon on Coatlann. Now he is able to fly appropriatly.