Dumbing down of education

[Neonanocyborgasm]

One of the comments in one of the maths threads made me think. It was about how most Americans only learn calculus in their senior year of high school. It reminds me of a story from when I was in school. I learnt how to read very quickly and by the end of 1st year I could read 3rd year books. However the librarian told me I was not allowed to borrow any of them out because I was only in 1st year and had to "wait" and why don't I go and read some more 1st year books. The first year books were all picture books. Starting from 3rd year, you could get actual novels. What the...if I have the ability to read 3rd year and higher books why on earth aren't I allowed to borrow them out? What is with this arbitrary age limit?!!!! Fortunately there was the public library. Another thing I remember from school was that they kept on repeating the same things in maths again year after year. Wait a moment. Didn't we do this exact same topic *last* year? Why on earth are we doing it again? I guess the idea was to repeat it again for people who didn't "get" it last time, but isn't that what remedial class is for?

On a funnier note, in 2nd year I once asked a teacher to help me with a maths problem. He got it wrong. Bwahahaha. Err, actually now that I think about it, that's rather sad.

So, does anyone else have any stories about the dumbing down of education?

Yes, American education has been dumbed down over the last 30-40 years. It used to be the greatest education system in the world, because we had to generate all these math and science wizards who could build a better rocket or nuke than those bastard commies, but once the pressure was off, so was education. Now it's all about appeasing political interest groups, which has produced illiterate graduates. Now we just outsource our intellectuals from Asia.

I remember when I was in school, the same thing would be taught year after year. When I was finally in college, I had to learn to study for the first time, because in all those 12 years, I had no reason to study. Since it was the same thing over and over again, there was no reason to study it.

 

[scipian]

In my first 9 years of school I never studied because school was so easy. Now I've moved over a thousand miles and switched to the advanced school that has the top 3% of the kids from a nearly 1,000,000 people city. I love it and I'd NEVER go back to my previous backwoods, reneck, Tennessee school.

 

[shortguy]

Yes, American education has been dumbed down over the last 30-40 years. It used to be the greatest education system in the world, because we had to generate all these math and science wizards who could build a better rocket or nuke than those bastard commies, but once the pressure was off, so was education. Now it's all about appeasing political interest groups, which has produced illiterate graduates. Now we just outsource our intellectuals from Asia.

I remember when I was in school, the same thing would be taught year after year. When I was finally in college, I had to learn to study for the first time, because in all those 12 years, I had no reason to study. Since it was the same thing over and over again, there was no reason to study it.

Dumbed down? I don't necessarily agree. For one thing, the math requirements for a legitimate college-bound student are much higher than they used to be. My parents both went to pretty good colleges, and they certainly didn't take calculus at any point.

 

[warpus]

Calculus sure comes up in this thread often.

Calculus basics aren't really that advanced! If you understand the basics of math and most of the stuff you've learned before taking calculus (ie. stuff like factoring, fractions, quadratics, etc.) then introductory calculus shouldn't really be a shock to anyone.

It just sounds like such an advanced concept.. "Eeeeek! Calculus!". But it's not as bad as people make it sound to be.. Unless you're talking about advanced University-level calculus, then you'd have a point

The problem partly lies with students learning how to memorize formulas and plugging numbers into them instead of making sense of concepts.

That can only get you so far.

Sure, it's good to use repetition to remember the quadratic formula and how to use it properly, but once the teacher says: "The implications of the quadratic formula in this example are such and such" you need to be able to understand the concepts, and merely having formulas memorized isn't enough

 

[Erik Mesoy]

Education is fairly dumbed down. Here in Norway, low standards have a part to play. The wage for teachers is slightly above crap, as nobody wants to pay teachers much. So, few people want to be teachers. Everyone with good grades gets a better job. This means that teachers are often criminally ignorant of the material they are teaching.

"An example for shock and awe", as we say here: (eksempel til skrekk og advarsel/gru)

What do you think is the mathematics requirement to become a high school mathematics teacher?

Spoiler Answer :

A high school grade of D (3 of 6) in mathematics.
And a diploma from teacher school, which, like ShannonCT says, produces classroom managers, not educators.

I caught my English teacher writing "World Piece" in ninth grade. Blargh.

The requirement above is for public schools and the English teacher was at a private school, so I can't say that either is more efficient. Teacher wages are fairly consistent across the board.

 

[Xanikk999]

Hell i havent taken calculus yet. But thats only because i was in special ED.

But i turned out fine. I studied history and science textbooks on my own. Im just not very good at math.

 

[mangxema]

It depends where you go... There are plenty of good schools still, but there are also lots and lots of bad ones. And even in good schools there are still stupid teachers. One time, we had to try to convince our science teacher that we couldn't make a graph with only x-coordinates.

I totally throw the curve for calculus... I already had four semesters of it before the senior year. Math was by far my best subject.

 

[Tomoyo]

One time, we had to try to convince our science teacher that we couldn't make a graph with only x-coordinates.

Number line graph?

 

[chinesefireball]

I agree with the people who have stated that maths teachers are generally the people that are not so good in maths to start of with.

I just finished my first year of a maths degree, and all the people that i knew that was going to become a teacher either failed or was on the border line for the first year maths subject (which at least half of which you had learnt at school).

I'm good at maths, yet i have no inclination to become a teacher. I know I can easily get a job (big math teacher shortage), the pay wouldn't be too bad (bit above average i think) - but the fact remains that i have very little patience with people in general.

 

[mangxema]

Number line graph?

Unfortunately not. She wanted a graph graph, y vs. x. And it was a scatterplot too, so there was no way to wing it.

 

[Sidhe]

It depends where you go... There are plenty of good schools still, but there are also lots and lots of bad ones. And even in good schools there are still stupid teachers. One time, we had to try to convince our science teacher that we couldn't make a graph with only x-coordinates. .

You can in 1 dimensional geometry, stop being so cynical

 

[mangxema]

I agree with the people who have stated that maths teachers are generally the people that are not so good in maths to start of with.

In my experience, it was the history teachers who usually weren't very good. It's really easy to turn into a memorization-fest if the teacher is say... a lazy basketball coach.

 

[Fetus4188]

My experience with public education was both good and bad. Going through the lower level mandatory classes, just about all the teachers were horrible and I can remember numerous instances in which I had to teach the teachers. However, in higher level classes I had great teachers who we into what they were doing and knew what they were talking about.

 

[nihilistic]

Calculus sure comes up in this thread often.

Calculus basics aren't really that advanced! If you understand the basics of math and most of the stuff you've learned before taking calculus (ie. stuff like factoring, fractions, quadratics, etc.) then introductory calculus shouldn't really be a shock to anyone.

It just sounds like such an advanced concept.. "Eeeeek! Calculus!". But it's not as bad as people make it sound to be.. Unless you're talking about advanced University-level calculus, then you'd have a point

The problem partly lies with students learning how to memorize formulas and plugging numbers into them instead of making sense of concepts.

That can only get you so far.

Sure, it's good to use repetition to remember the quadratic formula and how to use it properly, but once the teacher says: "The implications of the quadratic formula in this example are such and such" you need to be able to understand the concepts, and merely having formulas memorized isn't enough

Exactly. Also, the quadratic formula can be shortened to 3 words: "complete the square".

And the deal with Calculus, the problem with Calculus is that it is often the first truly demanding step that one takes. Demanding in the sense that it assumes some degree of proficiency in many other subjects: simple algebra, geometry, and arithmetic (you probably have no idea how many people fail at arithmetic). People who have been memorizing formulas all that time won't be flexible enough to apply what they have allegedly learned to the next level, thus failing at subjects such as Calculus. Calculus is also the math subject that causes the maximum number of people such pain because it is the only difficult math subject required for college degrees.

 

[Ansar]

I took Algebra I in 7th grade. Geometry in 8th. Algebra II in 9th. I will be taking Pre-Calculus (Trigonometry) in 10th. Calculus in 11th. and AP Calculus in 12th.

 

[Thorvald of Lym]

Sad Highlights of the Educational System:

Teachers paid squat (as frequently pointed out)
Principals who decry bullying as 'experience for the real world'
Foreign Language teachers who can't speak the language!
School Consolidation

Actual statements by teachers I have known:
"No, the 'Norse' never came to North America! Those were the Vikings!"
"No, the swastika was never a sign for peace!"

But worst of all, a school system that thinks it's better for the kids to move through each grade, rather than be failed so as to actually learn the material.

 

[chinesefireball]

I talked to my dad about the dumbing down of universities (he has been an academic/lecturer in maths for the last 38 years or so).

He feels that the course has been made easier (as in alternate subjects have been added in to allow people who aren't as good to get through), but he then recognises that now the top 15% of the population goes to university instead of the top 2-3% like it was when he went to uni.
So the smart people can still get through on the more academically regorous courses, but not so able people can still get through on the lower level courses. So overall, more of the population is becoming more educated, but the top 2-3% maybe not as well as the would have in earlier years

 

[ShannonCT]

Calculus is also the math subject that causes the maximum number of people such pain because it is the only difficult math subject required for college degrees.

I wish it were. Most new college grads don't know arithemetic, much less Calculus. It's not required at Harvard or Yale or Princeton.

I took Algebra I in 7th grade. Geometry in 8th. Algebra II in 9th. I will be taking Pre-Calculus (Trigonometry) in 10th. Calculus in 11th. and AP Calculus in 12th.

If you're taking precalculus in 10th grade, why not take AP Calculus AB in 11th and AP Calculus BC in 12th? Taking AP Calc AB in 12th after a year of Calculus in 11th is a waste of your time. AP Calculus is no harder than a good Precalculus class. Even if your school doesn't offer anything more advanced than Calc AB, acing the AP test in 11th grade will look great on college apps, and there might be other opportunities for taking more advanced math at a local college or AP statistics at your school.

 

[ShannonCT]

Here's a sample of courses that fulfill the math requirement at some of the top universities:

Yale
MATH 101b, Geometry of Nature.
Permission of instructor required
Geometric patterns in nature, including classical models of spirals in seashells and sunflowers, symmetry of honeycombs and snowflakes, and the curvature of soap films; the shape of the universe; ways to visualize the fourth dimension; and a brief introduction to fractal geometry.

Harvard
Quantitative Reasoning 28. The Magic of Numbers
This course will explore the beauty and mystery of mathematics through a study of the patterns and properties of the natural numbers 1, 2, 3, .... We discuss various special classes of numbers, such as prime numbers, factorials, and binomial coefficients, and the many ways they arise in mathematics. We will discuss questions in probability (such as: the likelihood that two people in a class of 25 have the same birthday). We also study modular arithmetic and secret codes based on it.
Note: No mathematical background beyond high school algebra assumed. Emphasis is placed on discovery through conjecture and experimentation.

Princeton
APC 199/MAT 199
Math Alive
Description/Objectives:
How is life different from 25 or even 10 years ago? Mathematics has profoundly changed our world, from banking & computers to listening to music. Course is designed for those who haven't had college mathematics but would like to understand some of the mathematical concepts behind important modern applications. It will consist of largely independent 2-week modules; each module focusing on 1 particular application. (e.g., bar codes, CD-players, population models) Emphasis will be on ideas, not on sophisticated mathematical techniques, but there will be substantial homework requirements. Students will learn by doing simple examples.

 

[Gainy]

The moment I stepped into a university classroom I knew that public school, post-elementary, was largely a misuse of time.

School shouldn't be there for pupils learn information, it should be there to teach common sense and practical skills. I went to a regular (though Catholic) secondary school, and I learnt virtually nothing worthwhile in my entire time (6 years!) there.
Since coming to University however, I seem (or I like to think ) i'm significantly 'better' than before.