Dune Prequels

[Dell19]

I really like the explanation for the excessive weight of Baron Harkonnen in the (first?) prequel, not been able to get hold of the other prequels.

I didn't really like that bit... I had always seen the weight problem as something that resulted from his own character rather than being inflicted on him... Oh and the last Dune book is interesting as the universe has progressed several thousand years nad its interesting to see how the influences are still being seen and the next evolutionary step occuring.

 

[Xen]

Disclaimer- i have never read the origional Dune books, and it was my father who had me read "House Harkonen" that got me into it

that said i enjoy them- i dont liek mostof the house books, save house harkonen, but partiduraley in that the epic of Duncan Idaho

so far I've gotten my hands onto the first of the Butlerian Jihad books, and I enjoyed very much- interesting to see how the tables were so reveresd between House Atriedes and House harkonen in the beginning

 

[Dell19]

interesting to see how the tables were so reveresd between House Atriedes and House harkonen in the beginning

That is a good part of the series that the families don't follow the traditions of the other books although it will be interesting to see how the feud begins that splits the two families occurs but the build up to it seems to have been set with the harkonnan character tiring of all the fighting.

 

[test_specimen]

That is a good part of the series that the families don't follow the traditions of the other books although it will be interesting to see how the feud begins that splits the two families occurs but the build up to it seems to have been set with the harkonnan character tiring of all the fighting.

I have not read the prequels, but as far as I know, the feud between the families starts after Tantalos gets cursed by the ancient greek gods. His offspring is consequently trying to find new and horrible ways to maim and torture each other. What I gather from the original series, Harkonnen and Atreides are intermingled over generations, being like distant cousins but basically from the same family. Atreides is derived from "Atreus" (who, iirc, serves Thyestes, his brother, two of his brothers sons in revenge - his wife betrayed him with Thyestes). Atreus is the father of Agamemnon and Menelaos (Menelaos being the King that incited the Trojan war, while Agamemnon being murdered by his wife and her lover upon return from Troy and his children avenging him by murdering their mother and her lover. He was ready to sacrifice one of his daugthers for favourable winds in battle).

If there is any other explanation for the roots of the Atreides, then the story would loose a lot. I don't exactly know about the Harkonnen though.

 

[Dell19]

The Atreides are meant to go back to ancient Greeks period but I'm pretty sure that the feud that has carries on till Dune began near the end of the Butlerian Jihad where the Harkonnen leader doesn't attack or something which nearly leads to a human defeat and the Atriedes general is meant to call him out for this betrayal and the feud begins. So far in the Butlerian Jihad prequels there hasn't been any evidence of the feud. Perhaps its meant to represent the old feud being reopened as the titans fighting for the machines (and for themselves) all have Greek names like Agamemnon...

 

[funxus]

Not sure which film you watched but the general opinion always seems to be that the actual book is a lot lot better than any of the film versions so you should read it.

The one by David Lynch, which seems to be the only movie made...

I can't say I understood it all after I watched it the first time, but after a second watch, it got better. This is a lot better than most of Lynch's movies, which I usually don't understand at all, like Mulholland Drive...

I'm very fond of the music in his movies, including Dune.

 

[Dell19]

Is it the one where it rains at the end?

 

[test_specimen]

The one by David Lynch, which seems to be the only movie made...

I can't say I understood it all after I watched it the first time, but after a second watch, it got better. This is a lot better than most of Lynch's movies, which I usually don't understand at all, like Mulholland Drive...

I'm very fond of the music in his movies, including Dune.

The movie doesn't seem finished yet, but it is the best thing you get. All of the tv-mini-series are just examples of CGI gone bad. I never watched a full episode, but I still remember in "Children of Dune" they animated almost everything except the actors themselves. From that point of view and the design (iirc by Moebius) David Lynch's film is really good, but it is too unifinished to be called a masterpiece. You can't compare them to other Lynch-movies since it is totally different and based on a more linear story than the others (probably the closest film to Dune is "Short Story").

 

[funxus]

Is it the one where it rains at the end?

Yup.

TS, you're right that it's not a good idea to compare Dune with Lynch's other movies, they are quite different in style. However, some of his movies are linear, like Straight story, and so is Twin Peaks...
The movie skips through the story quickly sometimes, and seems open for sequels or prequels, but I didn't get the feeling of unfinishedness. Maybe it's different if you've read the books.

 

[test_specimen]

I think it's unfinished, because of the different quality in the special effects (e.g. the Spacing Guild Navigator is done quite well, the sandworms and the power module also, but every sequence involving flying vehicles could definitely have been done better and the dream sequences with the moon lack something - I can't really put the finger on it), there's also way too many versions (please don't watch the tv-version, it tries to explain more but is totally cut together and really worsenes the movie). It seems unfinished because you can see that he could not pull all his ideas through; I guess he was forced to give much more explanation than he wanted to (though the Princess Irulan storytelling idea is good, as well as the way he does the inner monologues).

I guess my main criticism is, that the special effects do not blend into the world as well as in Star Wars or 2001, which were both made before Dune.

(please, no spoilers for Twin Peaks, I'm downloading it and so far I only know the basic storyline and one or two episodes. I want to watch it when I have all episodes. I heard that the Twin Peaks movie is a huge spoiler and you should watch it after having seen the tv-show.)

 

[funxus]

(please, no spoilers for Twin Peaks, I'm downloading it and so far I only know the basic storyline and one or two episodes. I want to watch it when I have all episodes. I heard that the Twin Peaks movie is a huge spoiler and you should watch it after having seen the tv-show.)

I'm currently watching it, one of the digital channels has started broadcasting it late at night. Unfortunately I don't think I'll be able to see the end of it...

It's weird, but not incomprehensible, so it suits me. Anyone know how many episodes or seasons were done?

 

[Ossric]

i always hate prequels, since we all know what happens after that. They should instead finish the last book of the saga that Herbert was writing before he passed on.

 

[Dell19]

i always hate prequels, since we all know what happens after that. They should instead finish the last book of the saga that Herbert was writing before he passed on.

The Butlerian Jihad is far enough in the past to avoid that problem and also I think it would be difficult to finish a last Dune book that has already been started especially as there would be no way to escape from comparisons as people would want the book that Frank herbert would have written...

 

[Syterion]

I loved Dune, and I thought Dune Messiah and Children of Dune were damn good. God Emperor was fairly boring, and too philosophical. The 5th was hard to read since you have no real idea of what the Scattering was or how Arrakis's monopoly was broken. In the 6th it improved a little.

Never read the prequels.

 

[test_specimen]

It's weird, but not incomprehensible, so it suits me. Anyone know how many episodes or seasons were done?

29 episodes, 2 seasons.

I loved Dune, and I thought Dune Messiah and Children of Dune were damn good. God Emperor was fairly boring, and too philosophical. The 5th was hard to read since you have no real idea of what the Scattering was or how Arrakis's monopoly was broken. In the 6th it improved a little.

(SPOILERS for the books)

The Scattering was, iirc (been a while since I read them), due to the loss of communication over far distances and into the more remote locations of the galaxy and led to the rise of the Bene Gesserit heretics (Honoured Matres instead of Reverend Mothers, if I'm not mixing it up). It is left in the dark, so the Honoured Matres somehow come out of nowhere and threaten the power of the Bene Gesserit.

There are two things that break the Spice monopoly: first the building of No-Ships, that can travel without a Guild Navigator (who has to use the Spice to see into the future), second the creation of another Spice planet by the Bene Gesserit, who bring some sandworms to their home planet (can't remember the name).

IIRC it was like this (SPOILERS):

Dune - setting of the story, decline of the emperor, coming into existance of the Muad'dib
Messiah - exile of Muad'dib, uncertain future
Children - destinies are revealed, the children realize their function in the Dune universe
God Emperor - Leto II (?) grasps power and stabilizes the universe by establishing apathy
Heretics - revolution
Chapterhouse - powers is free to take, new alliances and players enter the stage

Its like a curve, reaching the point of equilibrium in the 4th book and going back to a state of anarchy and uncertainness in the last.

 

[Dell19]

Another reason for the scattering was probably that people wanted to escape Leto's 'peace'...

 

[Grisu]

(Spoilers)


Wasn't the spice monopoly broken in the first place by the Tleilaxu when the managed to produce synthetic spice in thier Axlotl (sp?) tanks?

 

[pawpaw]

(Spoilers)


Wasn't the spice monopoly broken in the first place by the Tleilaxu when the managed to produce synthetic spice in thier Axlotl (sp?) tanks?

yes it was

 

[Thadlerian]

I've read the original Dune series, the preludes and Butlerian Jihad.
Dune, of course, is brilliant. The rest of the original declines slowly to Chapter House, which I gave up reading, because it seemed to be nothing else but an endless circle of clever "wisdom" wrought into a storyline that hardly ever reaches some point of originality; like Heretics, its predecessor. I think the last two books are a boring and unworthy conclusion to what what started with Dune.
And you soon grow tired of Duncan Idaho.

But as for the Preludes.
I liked Atreides at first. The story of Pardot Kynes was rather cute, but that's really it. The books are well written, of course, but for me to like a book, it's gotta have something special. The preludes are completely devoid of originality. Sure, there are interesting things, but unlike in Dune, they are presented in such an open and boring way that the Preludes ruin a lot of the magic in the original. I believe it was a personal mistake to read the Preludes. I will not recommend them.

Ather thing is what also appears in Jihad: The obsession of sex and violence. Feel free to call me weak-hearted, but I think a writer should limit himself to how many intimate details he exposes to the reader. At first I was rather disgusted at what I believed to be a deviation from the original, but then I read Heretics, and found that Sonny Herbert is just following in his father's footsteps. Atreides wasn't too bad, but Harkonnen, Corrino and Jihad suffer with this problem. If you really feel you need to expose your readers to it this way, there should be a well-founded reason for it. That reason is, as far as I can see, non-existent in the Preludes.

*Spoilers!*
I'm also rather annoyed at the simplicity of which politics in the Preludes are described. Countless times Shaddam, the supposed Emperor, makes astronomical blunders, and Fenring's got to save him. The heighliner/no-ship incident seemed to solve itself too easily.

And finally: Where did House Vernius go? IIRC, Rhombur got his planet back in Corrino. But in the original series, the rulers of Ix were always known as Ixians. This means they can hardly be Vernius (Atreides allies) or the Tleilaxu/Sardaukar occupants. Besides, in Dune, Paul had this vision with ships from all Noble Houses surrounding Arrakis in the final chapters. Did that mean Vernius too?
There seems to be other inconsistences too; Duncan remembered his parents tortured in the Barony in Heretics. But in Atreides, they were, IIRC, merely prisoners, killed painlessly by Rabban.

In conclusion: The Preludes take away too much of the magic in Dune. Characters like Kynes, the Baron, Halleck, Yueh and (especially) Fenring seemed mystical; with the thorough explanations from the Preludes, they now seem reminiscent to celebrities who you suddenly find you know more than you really appreciate about.

 

[Ballazic]

Dune rocks.