Dune Wars : Game 2 - Arrakis. Desert Planet.

[Deliverator]

I would be willing to join if you're still looking for one more. But I've never done a succession game and I don't play above prince yet, so I'm not sure I'd be able to add much.

Don't worry I was pretty similar before the last game and it was OK. You'll get plenty of guidance from the rest of us.

in place (Nitrates, 4 mesa in bfc = 2 windtraps, groundwater, 2 dews)
2 n ( 5 mesa in bfc resulting in 3 windtraps, groundwater. 2 dews, +1 turn delay, gain of +happy recources via culture will be earlier)

2 North (on the blue circle) looks better than in place, the extra windtrap and being closer to the happy resources is worth a turn in my opinion. Plus we will be further from the massive salt flats to the south.

(By the way, the correct English spelling is roster not rooster. A rooster is the American word for a male chicken. )

 

[Slvynn]

Turn 1 - Sietch Tabr founded. Production of Worker being started. Researching Water Conservation.

Liet-Kynes knew that his aim was far, and the way to it will be not easy... To terraform such huge planet.... He needed more land, more control over that land, more support from independent sietches... and maps..... Maps were necessary... Before all he needed Maps....
He sent his scouts to different directions, and those, clinging with their thumpers left the sietch on the growler worm, which arrived very fast... He escorted them with his sight, till the worm's figure dissolved in line of horizon, closed his eyes, and all that endless desert became green fields..... Astonished, he opened his eyes back , and met again that menacing burst of bright yellow and orange colors , which blinded him for a few moments... "Someday it WILL be green!.." - he though...

Turn 2 - our Scout recieve Mining technology from some friendly sietch!
We starting to explore land at very hight speed thanks to our scouts 4 movement points on desert.
Turn 11 - we receive another scout from another friendly sietch .
Turn 13 - We meet Bene Gesserit. Their hunger for spice is well-known and she will be our sworn enemy as soon as we start our terraforming.
Turn 19 worker is complete and he goes to build Fremen dew collector to 1se creosote bush tile
Turn 22 we meet Ecaz
Turn 26 we complete Water Conservation and start building Windtraps
Later we ecounter Harkonnens lead by Feyd.

Spoiler :

I've explored alot of land. 1 scout lost to worm though. Another one wandering between Ecaz and Harks.
I consider teching up to Arrakis Habitation, and perhaps grabbing Stilsuits at some point for Crysknife fighters. May be we'll be able to rush BG. :grin:

Here our maps and resource map around capital. There are plenty of good spots and alot of resources

Next is negy. Perhaps soon BG will found Shai-Hulud, that will be good religion for us, perhaps later we will capture its Holy city, or will found Qizirate much later.


please install THIS SMALL PATCH before you opening saves/playing game!!!!!!
patch fixes Windrap improvement, but this small change make very big impact on game and game ballance. (improves)

Also, i think this game will be really hard and hcalenging, so please weight your moves carefully. Patch 1.6.5 and that small patch makes game much harder for player than it was in previous versions (and thats good )
We should rely on dew collectors

 

[negyvenketto]

All right, we are actually play testing an unofficial patch
Agree on Arrakis Habitation. Build order is soldier, settler, I guess.
Will play tomorrow.

 

[Stochastic]

Nice start, lots of happy and healthy resources!

I consider teching up to Arrakis Habitation, and perhaps grabbing Stilsuits at some point for Crysknife fighters. May be we'll be able to rush BG. :grin:

I second this, running amuck on stylish sandworms!

Here is a preliminary dot map I threw together to get myself in the action, I'd really appreciate comments on my placements from the more experienced of you!

Spoiler :

Obviously we'd have to clear out the 3 black squares to check what is in them but I think its just rugged and sink.

I think the red one is the best economically, but if we are going for the early rush the yellow or green ones will give more hammers to start.

 

[Slvynn]

Yellow should be moved 1 ne
I dont like rest of cities i think there should be city 1s of nitrates

Also those cities are not priority - priority is to block BG and to settle closer to Ecaz to ensure that we'll claim that land
We dont want ICS , we need some limited REX for perhaps far but worthy cities to start with, then we can fill space between border ones and capital. Also it is easy for us - our settlers can ride worms too, so we should abuse that.
Also need to send scout to polar region.
(north of us)

 

[negyvenketto]

Played 22 turns until settler is ready. Next player can found 2nd city after we have a consensus where.
Other news:

Tleilax is up North

Sorry, I didn't use the same colors for the dot map as Stochastic

Settler is near the red spot. I'm hesitating a bit about it. Computer suggests 2S of it (the blue circle). But 1E can grab coffee as well. I vote for 1E of red.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

1E of red also has an extra mesa, I vote for that too.

 

[Stochastic]

I'd agree on 1E of red, but if we want to block off the BG (handn't thought of that, I guess that one reason why I'm still on Prince) than maybe this one?

Spoiler :

We could move the soldier in our capital towards that point and the red dot soldier to our capital so our settler doesn't have to wait. (But maybe that is obvious to you guys!)

Also, I think that before we go out to the pole we should scout perimeter of BG with the soldier to their north, find out where their land ends and maybe steal a worker. (It would be able to run away to the dessert right? Fremen take worker stealing to a whole new level!)

 

[davidlallen]

Also, I think that before we go out to the pole we should scout perimeter of BG with the soldier to their north, find out where their land ends and maybe steal a worker. (It would be able to run away to the dessert right? Fremen take worker stealing to a whole new level!)

Interesting point. It would be worthwhile to test; I am not sure if capturing a worker currently awards the sandrider promo. Regardless of what it *currently* does, *should* it grant sandrider? I think it should not, actually. A worker for another civ should not magically learn to sandride through being captured. But it may be confusing to see why some Fremen workers (built) have the promotion and some (captured) don't. What do you think?

 

[negyvenketto]

I'd agree on 1E of red, but if we want to block off the BG (handn't thought of that, I guess that one reason why I'm still on Prince) than maybe this one?

I think there is no reason to settle a city that far right now.

Interesting point. It would be worthwhile to test; I am not sure if capturing a worker currently awards the sandrider promo.

Every worker is sandriding by default. (They need to harvest spice. I have captured several workers ON sand.)

 

[Deliverator]

Got the save. What should I be researching after Arrakis Habitation is done?

1E of red seems to be the most popular second city sites - so I'll go for that unless someone has a reason not to...

 

[Slvynn]

I dont like 1e of red - note that those resources by their majority are not wateryelding ones - there not enough water. 4 yielding tiles including 2 windtraps is not enough. AIs suggestion is better b/c it get 5 wateryielding tiles . So i like that AI's blue circle - it will make better city long term..... Also it will allow to move green one 1 s , and this will [provide better geen city and better yellow city, since yellow will not share nitrates with green.
Also i dont like ICS and that will make city layout less crowded.

 

[negyvenketto]

I think having 5 water source/city is very tough requirement. I feel 1S of green won't be able to work all resource tiles with only 2 water source. Maybe 2S of yellow and 2W of green (and no teal) could be better. But I still like 1E of red the most.

 

[Slvynn]

Red 1e have not 5 water tiles in bfc - 3 of those recources have not any water yield.
With 1e gain is even lesser for other cities - you will not be able to adjust yellow and green cities
5 wateryield and leaving 1 wind-trap valid tile for other city is better than 4 water yield tiles and leave things crowded on north.
Again - with new culture system all those resources will be ours , but we need to maximise water for every city.

I propose red-2s and green-3e (yellow-3s - is much better than yellow-2s because of more 1 windtrap )

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Red 2S is good--more water initially to build settlers and workers, then cities for resources.

 

[Slvynn]

XX
X0

this figure of mesas can contain only 1 windtrap
by moving 2s we not only provide to red city more 1 water source but allowing to green-yellow mixed green-3e to use 2 those figures (ne and se of current green spot), resulting in +1 windtrap for ne city

Here is my mapping proposal

magenta should be rush-base on BG with crysknifes, good spot, willbe good to attack from there since our units are sandriders - that will provide close base with awesome defence and lots of spice to boost our tech
magenta can have for first time only 2 windtraps and 3 mines (= 3 water) able to feed 6 pop city with unimproved groundwater to keep spice tiles and huge production (of crysknives)

 

[Stochastic]

I'm not sure that red 2S will be better for early growth without any way to get culture in that city for a while (research mysticism, then build monument then wait some turns). Also, the windtrap available from red-1e will be better right now for settler/worker because of the extra hammer and water from habitation.
And it's not like the ground water resources will be wasted in the longterm either, the white dot that is currently "using" those groundwater resources would be a good cottage farm with all that flat land.

I agree with green-3e (I don't think the overlap with red-1e is important, its only 2 squares).

Either red 2s or 1e will be good though, I'd be fine with either one if I haven't convinced you.

 

[Slvynn]

1e-red cut 1 windtrap from green
2s have 2 dew collectors, which by difference from windtraps also provide +2 commerce, mysticism is imminent and monument is easy thing to build. Anyways we should do that because we want other recources to fall under our culture soon.
In 1.6.5 was introduced new culture system (which will be bit tuned in next one) but with new system we can reach far with our culture.
This difference is minor compared to soon-to-come long-term benefits. Its better to build our city layout with maximizing water (upgradeable as well)
Note that aqua bore yield is 5 water (no-terraform), and that is tech path we will go with our terraforming
making more weaker cities with shared tiles is not good in DW i think, and it will be very expensive to maintain them

 

[Stochastic]

Ok, lets go for red-2s then. I thought that in Dune Wars the lack of food compared to vanilla made more overlapping acceptable because the cities are generally smaller and so use less tiles. But you certainty know DW better than me!

Got the save. What should I be researching after Arrakis Habitation is done?

I think we need mysticism for monuments so that the red dot on Slvynn's map can get its border pop.

Then maybe spice Extraction-->stillsuits for crysknives if we are still rushing BG?

 

[Slvynn]

I'd like red then magenta - and i think mysti - spice - desert plantation - stillsuits path for quick conquest and new cities and fast teching
4-5 crysknifers will be enough to throw BG into stone age - if we do this quick. Magenta will be busy with spamming crysknifers with all that producion while other cities will just grow and develop infrastructure after popping 1-2 crys