Dune Wars Wonders

[davidlallen]

Let me try to convert DuneWarsText.tcl into an executable which you can run. Then you can update DuneWarsText.txt also, instead of trying to maintain the xml file directly.

OK, here it is. Please download this file from mediafire and unzip it. You will now have a special purpose program which reads DuneWarsText.txt from the present directory, and writes DuneWarsText.xml into the same directory.

This will enable us to maintain DuneWarsText.txt and automatically generate the other languages without cut/pasting. The first time, this may be a small pain to you, because you will have to find the text you added to DuneWarsText.xml and paste the English part into DuneWarsText.txt. After this initial pain, I think it will be much easier for us to share DuneWarsText.txt.

 

[Ahriman]

Looking through the Wonders, a few thoughts:
House Shield Generator is over-priced relative to its value. Maybe its bonus should be 75%? Could it just block construction of a Force Shield, rather than becoming obsolete?
The Azhar book comes too early for its power; move it to Divine Mandate?
Fai Water Tribute is supposed to give +1 water in all cities, not +1% water.
The Sanctuary of Bakka seems out of place. Why does a Fremen legend http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakka give a large GPP bonus, and why is it available at Fanaticism tech?
Propaganda corps should probably give great spy points. Also feels a little early; maybe it should be at Law of Arrakis? I dunno.
Some wonders build double with Marble; I thought we were removing marble, and having the Offworld Labor instead?
Political center could move to Imperialism
War Institute could move to Military-Industral complex.
University of Arrakis could move to Academies.

We feel maybe a little light on wonders still?

But great job in general!

 

[davidlallen]

Some wonders build double with Marble; I thought we were removing marble, and having the Offworld Labor instead?

Yes, I have locally removed Marble in 1.7. So either deliverator or I should remove the bonus rate for marbel before 1.7.

We feel maybe a little light on wonders still?

Deliverator has said the same thing. I think what we are missing is the inspiration. Looking at the existing wonders, can you think of anything which is missing?

 

[Deliverator]

Looks great! I put it on top of my local 1.6.5 installation and everything comes up in the pedia. Civcheck found one error; in buildingclassinfos for Tuek's Sietch, the default building is BUILDING_ARTEMIS when it should be BUILDING_TUEKS_SIETCH.

Ah, that explains why it wasn't showing up in the tech tree.

We definitely need a strategy for making DuneWarsText.xml friendlier to multiple developers.

I didn't actually add any new text for the wonders to DuneWarsText.xml yet. It is fiddly to create entries for the separate languages, so a utility could speed up the process.

Edit: I see you have posted the utility - I will try it out.

Then you can incorporate any wonder feedback into another 1.6.5.x patch, while I incorporate any 1.7 feedback into 1.7 beta 2. Finally, this weekend, I will integrate your buildings into 1.7 and release the whole thing. What do you think?

Sounds like a reasonable plan.

I suggest we merge Frigate transportation into the Spaceports tech. That is what I thought we were renaming when I suggested Frigate Transportation; what was the old name of Frigate Transportation?

We can do this. Alternatively, I wondered whether we could move Satellites to that position. It feels like perhaps there should be an intermediate tech between Academies and Spaceport.

House Shield Generator is over-priced relative to its value. Maybe its bonus should be 75%? Could it just block construction of a Force Shield, rather than becoming obsolete?

Can one building block another like this? The price and bonus can be altered.

Fai Water Tribute is supposed to give +1 water in all cities, not +1% water.

I thought it did - but I'll check it out.

The Sanctuary of Bakka seems out of place. Why does a Fremen legend Bakka give a large GPP bonus, and why is it available at Fanaticism tech?

It is at Fanaticism in order to spread out the wonders. The concept is pretty nonsensical I agree. I think some kind of Wonder at Fanaticism that gives GPP might be appropriate - representing great people rallying to a cause. So perhaps we can simply rename?

The Azhar book comes too early for its power; move it to Divine Mandate?

Agree it comes too early, but Chamber of Visions is at Divine Mandate (from memory). I was trying to avoid multiple wonders at any tech since we don't have many to go around anyway. Where should I put Chamber of Visions?

Propaganda corps should probably give great spy points. Also feels a little early; maybe it should be at Law of Arrakis?
Political center could move to Imperialism
War Institute could move to Military-Industral complex.
University of Arrakis could move to Academies

These seem like reasonable changes.

Some wonders build double with Marble; I thought we were removing marble, and having the Offworld Labor instead?

I agree with the proposal of adding Offworld Labor (+25% worker increase) and Ore (+25% wonder speed to physical structure wonders), to replace Stone and Marble. I can do the Stone into Ore change, and add the boost to appropriate wonders - removing any Marble boost as I go.

I think what we are missing is the inspiration. Looking at the existing wonders, can you think of anything which is missing?

Perhaps we can think about tsentom1's wonders some more, and as I suggested look at the weaker techs for inspiration.

 

[Ahriman]

I think what we are missing is the inspiration

Agreed. I will think more.

Alternatively, I wondered whether we could move Satellites to that position. It feels like perhaps there should be an intermediate tech between Academies and Spaceport.

I would argue that having Frigate Transportation tech (the guild lets you fly frigates around from city to city and up to heighliners in orbit) could come before having weather-control satellites.
So we could move the spaceport building to the Frigate Transportation tech, and then replace the Spaceports tech with the Satellites tech.

So perhaps we can simply rename?

This seems reasonable.

Where should I put Chamber of Visions?

Hmmm. I dunno.
You could move it to Water of Life, and move spice orgy to Jihad.
I'll think about it more when I have the tree in front of me.
Its not necessarily a crime to have 2 wonders at a tech, but we should avoid it when possible.

Perhaps we can think about tsentom1's wonders some more

I've lost the thread were we had this link and thought a few of their effects might fit. Which thread was it in?
* * *

While we're changing techs, it was suggested that Sand Farms become an AND requirement for ecologiocal control (or whatever the arrakis transformation pre-req is), and that we have sandfarms give +1 commerce to windtraps and insect farms (after reducing the windtrap base commerce).

 

[Deliverator]

I've lost the thread were we had this link and thought a few of their effects might fit. Which thread was it in?

This one. From post 51

 

[Ahriman]

Sanctuary of Bakka

So perhaps we can simply rename?

It sounds like what we want here (if we have this at Fanaticism) is something like the old quote "Never doubt that a small group of committed idealists/citizens can change the world - it is the only thing that ever has."
Some random thoughts:
Officer corps, Dedicated cadre, True Believers, Inspiring Leadership, Mantle of Prophecy, Mantle of Greatness, Social Activism, Enthusiastic Support, Idealistic Zeal, Messianic Cult.

But should Fanaticism really be encouraging great people? Its a bit out of theme; fanaticism usually inspires groupthink, not outstanding individuals.

Another possibility: move the Cogitator (free tech) to Benevolence, and move a great-person yield wonder to Social mobility? It seems to make more logical sense there. Philosophical Academcy, Universal Education, Great Institute.
Or we could have a large +GPP national wonder (like the <forgotname> Epic in vanilla).

I also like adding a +GPP % yield to the Axolotl tank building.

This one.

I'm blind, I skimmed that page twice and missed it....
Thanks.

The E-bank effect and Terracotta army effect seem most promising.
"CHOAM Holdings" as an E-bank?

Otherwise the best thnig is probably to look at weak techs and try to think of something logical there.

 

[Deliverator]

RAZZIA: a semipiratical guerrilla raid

Another wonder idea:

Razzia Command - Gives Morale (+1 movement) or Tactics (+30% Withdraw Chance) promotions to units built in city and 100% War Weariness to Enemies. Requires Stillsuits or Maula Pistols or Jihad and move Chamber of Visions.

Alternately, make a new promotion that yields more gold from pillaging as in TheLadiesOgre's Promotions DLL modcomp.

Other wonders that give free promotions might a good way to expand the Wonders list some more.

Another vanilla effect that we aren't using yet is "No anarchy when changing civics and religion" (Christo Redentor)

 

[Ahriman]

RAZZIA: a semipiratical guerrilla raid

Another wonder idea:

Razzia Command

Seems reasonable. Maybe Desert Topography?

Gives Morale (+1 movement) or Tactics (+30% Withdraw Chance) promotions to units built in city and 100% War Weariness to Enemies.

That seems a powerful. How about just the war weariness?
+30% withdraw or +1 movement are both very powerful promotions.
Maybe war weariness and flanking 1 (10% withdraw)?
Maybe only applies to melee and guardsmen units?

Alternately, make a new promotion that yields more gold from pillaging as in TheLadiesOgre's

The other possibility is the Fall Further style Raider promotion, that automaticalyl pillages a tile that you move over if you are at war with the enemy.

But the AI is very bad at pillaging and raiding (start on desert tile, move to pillage, move away again), so this would likely advantage the human player.

We should also look at improvement pillage values. Forts are worth nothing, and many others have pretty low values. I think water providing improvements (dew collectors, wells) could probably have higher pillage values; you steal water.

Another vanilla effect that we aren't using yet is "No anarchy when changing civics and religion" (Christo Redentor)

I don't really like this effect. I dislike Wonders that basically make traits irrelevant, or that can substitute for an entire trait value.

 

[Ahriman]

Guild research facility graphic is not scaled properly.

Spoiler :

 

[AnotherPacifist]

GRF: I thought it was because that city got took over by the new wonder--didn't think much about it when I built it.

 

[Deliverator]

Guild research facility graphic is not scaled properly.

Thanks. I'll sort that out.