DuneWars: Battle for Arrakis

Ahriman, what is inroad?

Let me restate; conquest will go much faster and with fewer losses on our part if we can start before the enemy has maula guardsmen.

Inquisitors which will help us to combat imperial and Shai-Hulud which surely will spread into our cities.

Inquisitors are not a huge priority. As long as we have the religion in a few cities so we can build Temples and Mahdi Fighters, we can get the rest eventually. Shai-Hulad spreads very slowly, imperial will spread much faster, and is more of an issue since we can't use missionaries to get rid of it.
Theocracy civic is ok for us, but not amazing; as noted the bonus is for buildnigs (not units) - so won't help much in wartime, and only where we have the state religion, and the war weariness won't help much, we will already have low war weariness from the Mahdi shrine (Dune Messiah). Do we have enough happiness to manage at decent city size without HR?

The only issue with running Technocracy
You mean THEocracy
Civic upkeep shouldn't be too bad, we are still fairly small. Only with larger empires does that start getting really bad.

I don't think Theocracy tech is a priority.

IIRC theocracy is more expensive than education.
 
Do we have enough happiness to manage at decent city size without HR?

Seems Yes, plently of resources.... Edu then, meritocracy seems good pick for now, though we have major health problems, but lots of resources, so Greenhouses and Mushtamals are must.

But dont forget also, that we are SPi. that means we need alot of civics and we can manipulate them well. Theo is good still.
 
Pretty uneventful turnset and maybe my plan was too ambitious.
Al Yassanah started the settler after the Infantry, hasn't finished yet.
Jihad researched
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Mahdi holy city is Kuriya (after the Greenhouse started the Temple)
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Theocracy is more expensive than Education, but it requires Feudalism (13 turns of research, but the Oracle was due in 5 turns) while Edu needs Stillsuit (4 turns). Decided to go for Edu and set the path to Stillsuit. Then noticed it also needs Spice Extraction (6 turns) :cry: Increased sci rate to cut 2 turns while held up the Oracle until Stillsuit is finished. Luckily Mahdi spread to Arrakeen and could put some hammers to the Temple.
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I stopped after Stillsuit, Oracle can be finished next turn. If you think it's worth the risk, we still can go for Feudalism and finish the Oracle after it to get Theocracy.
Otherwise I set the research to Ornithopters.

Bene Tleilax demanded Faith, refused, they are annoyed. Hopefully we can push out some more unit before they decide to attack.
 

Attachments

I looked on save, well done,
Edu is best pick , and thats it
It also prequisite for Social Mobility with civic Meritocracy, and that would be good civic for us to use.
Social Mobility is prequisite for Benevolence , which unlocking Heirs. We on right path.
I'd say Ornies and then straight to Heirs *that will be a HUGE boost to our marching SODs of Zealots), converting to Meritocracy on the way.

We have plently of hapinnes, and we can use 1 city as GP farm.
Cyan will be potent city but we may to consider to take white spot , if aviable, from hands of Tleilaxu.
 
Cyan will be potent city but we may to consider to take white spot , if aviable, from hands of Tleilaxu.

The white spot has Spice Honey which gives +1 health with Greenhouse (not sure why from a realism point of view, but it does). That would raise the health limit some more.
 
Btw Al-Yasannah have Imperial crap superstitions.
It'll be hard to give to teach people there the way of Mahdi, perhaps , we'll need inquisitors later.
(Perhaps after we get Heirs)
 
Great, I'll take the next slot then, maybe tonight or tomorrow.

Btw Al-Yasannah have Imperial crap superstitions.
It'll be hard to give to teach people there the way of Mahdi, perhaps , we'll need inquisitors later.
Eventually, but not urgently. If we get thopters we could build a pilot school there and use it to pump thopters.

Desert engineering (+1 water from wells!) might be a higher priority than ornithopters.

Also: I'd say that we need not worry too much about unhealth. Having unhappy citizens is a big nono; having unhealth is just slightly slower growth. Not that big a deal, and not necessarily worth converting many many turns of hammers to cover.

With lots of wells, an early change to Way of Liet civic could also pay off nicely, starting up the terraforming engine.

I'll see how I go in the next phase, and whether we can get a big enough army yet to start a war. Probably not, I'm guessing Sylvnn will get the priviliege of launching the jihad (unless the Tleilaxu attack us first).
 
Great, I'll take the next slot then, maybe tonight or tomorrow.


Eventually, but not urgently. If we get thopters we could build a pilot school there and use it to pump thopters.

Desert engineering (+1 water from wells!) might be a higher priority than ornithopters.

Also: I'd say that we need not worry too much about unhealth. Having unhappy citizens is a big nono; having unhealth is just slightly slower growth. Not that big a deal, and not necessarily worth converting many many turns of hammers to cover.

With lots of wells, an early change to Way of Liet civic could also pay off nicely, starting up the terraforming engine.

I'll see how I go in the next phase, and whether we can get a big enough army yet to start a war. Probably not, I'm guessing Sylvnn will get the priviliege of launching the jihad (unless the Tleilaxu attack us first).

Agree on Desert Engeneering,
I disagree on helathy - we have excess of hapiness +2.... soon we'll have cofee, and that will be +3. then temple = +4 in capital. Thats bad gap to leave. We need to use it. Beleive with current unhelathy it will be hard to close that gap by 3, and i am not talking about 4, to be even.
You understimate healthy, and not counting incoming happines bonuses in few turns.
Then Thopters
Then Heirs and Merictocracy (thats a huge boost!)
Then Theo
Then Way of Liet, methinks
Also both Cyan and White Spot need settling.
And Yep, i will launch assault i hope, jut build enough units - earlier - merrier

Also, we got Spice extraction ,that mean refiniries (with more unhealthy) and harvesters.
We have some spice tiles , and they will be a nice boost
 
Barrel cactus with water cache/greenhouse is 2 health right there, a military is more important in the short-term.

I will get to this tonight, so ~12 hours or so.
 
We are Phi, so i prefer having 1 city improving itself to best, GPF would be good, libs and such. Just 1, that later can build Filmbook lib. Perhaps Arrakeen. It will be HUGE boost. Really.
 
Paul surveys his domain.
The call of jihad approaches, echoing ever louder in his dreams. All thoughts now turn to preparation for war; the people must build a mighty army, capable of destroying the enemies of the Mahdi.

The people consult the Oracle of Hajra, who declares that Paul is indeed the Lisan-al-Gaib. The Oracle declares support for the Mahdi, and the Oracle's servants venture forth from the wilderness and enter the Atreides cities, sharing their skills and technical manuals that they have preserved since the great Catastrophe.

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We discover Liet-Kynes, the Imperial Planetologist turned Fremen, son of the great man Pardot.
The Fremen are the key to Dune, and we sympathize with Liet's vision of an Arrakis Paradise. So we must make every effort to keep good relations, and eventually to contemplate a permanent alliance. But the Fremen are slow to trust, so we must remain patient and demonstrate our good intentions.

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But it remains to be seen whether such a dream is truly feasible. And surely such things must remain secondary to the great Jihad. What is one planet when compared to the future of humanity?

The Fremen are incredibly weak; they must have started on a small island and been unable to expand, thanks to their still inadequate AI, which does not allow them to move their sandrider-settlers across the deserts.
We may have to protect the Fremen at a later stage (to ensure they are not destroyed), which could prove difficult given the distances involved.
To start improving relations (and to speed their tech a little) I share Faith with them - hopefully they too can one day be encouraged to embrace the Mahdi?

Sharing Faith demonstrates our good intentions, enough that the Fremen will open their borders to us, and together the two are enough that they will share with us their knowledge of Dune's Topography in exchange for helping to train their Fanatical warriors.

The backward Sietch Tabr; an example of the AI's ******** city-placement algorithm. It needs to realize that settling directly *on* groundwater is useless; the resource is useless. If we actually remove the groundwater resource, will that help?

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This city is so bad, that the Fremen will be completely crippled this game.
Also, a bad start position, which is very unfortunate. I never really get start positions that bad on Arrakis mapscript.

We encounter Emperor Shaddam, of House Corrino. An Emperor in name only; since the Catastrophe and Shaddam's presumed death by the rest of the galaxy, another Emperor was named, who is but an Ecazi puppet for now.

Though Shaddam's forces on Arrakis have been destroyed along with everyone else, as he gains power he will be able to bring in the elite Sardaukar from offworld, fearsome assault troops ever loyal to House Corrino.
Shaddam is impetuous and rash, and cannot be relied on. While we will no doubt have to crush him under our boot and take the Imperial throne for ourselves, for now we will have peace.

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The great houses are banding together: Landsraad is founded by House Ix.

Al Akabah is founded, and we begin building an insect farm.

The Duke of Ecaz demands Jihad, but I refuse; the sacred writings must be shared only with those who Believe. Infidels must not be allowed to use them against us, or to distort them with their false propaganda.

The Tleilaxu have spread to the poles; rooting them off our starting island will not be enough to destroy them. We may have to make peace with them after clearing them off our island; using 2 wars to destroy them. Prolonged wars with the Tleilaxu are to be avoided if possible, since their devastating bio-plague lasts until we make peace and they share the cure.
Fortunately, everyone else tends to distrust and hate the Tleilaxu, so won't be particularly offended if we destroy them.

The Bene Gesserit ask for open borders, which we refuse. What fool would let the Witches roam freely through his lands?

The Baron Vladimir Harkonnen, our most hated enemy. Though he is too far to deal with for now, our goals must include ridding the galaxy of the treacherous Harkonnen filth forever.
While he appears to be an imperial lapdog for now, we can rest assured knowing he would gladly betray them if it were to his advantage. His secret desire is to put a Harkonnen on the throne.

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We complete desert engineering, which increases the yield from our wells. Very valuable.

The Spice honey has eliminated our health problems. We shall found 1 more city and then concentrate on our war machine.

We have researched Combat Ornithopters, and pick a city to be our aircraft manufacturer; Al Yassanah already has Imperial religion, so will not be getting Mahdi any time soon, so lets use that one. It'll be expensive, so a refinery first.

We can grab Feudalism cheaply for Serfdom, which will increase our worker build rate, very valuable at this stage, and HR to quell any unhappiness.
A beeline then for Atreides heirs and Meritocracy is possible, but those techs are very expensive.

Our military is in a pathetic state, so that needs to be the priority by far.

Save attached.
 

Attachments

Ok got it

Few notes:
I think white spot was better than blue one for Al Akabah
and Theocrathy would help alot - while HR wont - because we have too much hapiness, and need to build quite some buildings , like refineries, schools, library and wonder in capital .
That also mean that zealots get +1 xp and more than that Al Yasannah would build mahdi soon , while Wind Pass (that remote city near IX) can build ornies.
I kinda we'll go bit different way, and had other plans, well...
 
There is another settler en route to the closer spot. I reduced transit time by settling the far-spot from the far-city settler, and the near-spot by the settler from the near-city.

Serfdom will help more than Theocracy would for now.
Feudalism is cheaper than Theocracy.
Feudalism leads to more things; Theocracy is dead-end.

Refineries and libraries are nice, but I think we should build an army and wipe the Tleilaxu off the island first, while building improvements fast with Serfdom. THEN we can go on an economy kick.
 
The backward Sietch Tabr; an example of the AI's ******** city-placement algorithm. It needs to realize that settling directly *on* groundwater is useless; the resource is useless.

Koma says this is easy to fix. Hopefully, he will still deliver on an improvement city sites AI before he leaves.

On the Fremen, perhaps it is worth gifting them a Settler to the east of Sietch Tabr to help them out?

Edit: Perhaps also when we conquer a city close to the Fremen we could gift it to them? That might be a good way to get them adopting Mahdi.
 
I played part , will play soonish other one,
1 note - i want libs to be able to build filmbook lib
 
I think you're unlikely to be able to be the first to build the filmbook library; the other factions haven't spent time teching for Fanaticism and Jihad.

Building library and the Wonder will massively slow a military buildup, which will make it much much harder to kick the Tleilaxu off our island.

I think if you're slowing for buildnigs, grabbing a refinery then churning mahdi fighters would be best.

Also, IIRC, only 1 library is needed (in the city that builds it) for the great filmbook library, so we definitely need to start building a military elsewhere.

If you're set on building library in the capital, start buildnig mahdi fighters in the Mahdi holy city. We are very over-stretched military-wise, our expansion has been extreme, anyone who invades us could do tremendous damage and we would be helpless to stop them.

Maybe this is somethnig we need to vote on, strategywise:

Votes for:
Rapid military buildup now: Ahriman
Slower military buildup, building libraries and trynig for the filmbook library first: Slvynn
 
Lol, i made 1 turn and it already built before i even tried to start it.
Thing cancelled, soon will post details.
I am with rapid military (as i am usually)
 
Ah well, no harm no foul. The scientist slots from the library will still be useful once we go for Meritocracy, and the bonus in the capital is nice.

But yeah, I bet Ecaz built it. Its tough to get unless you beeline Education early - the AI isn't entirely stupid :-)
 
Part I

Paul stood in roof watch room of highest watchtower of Kuriya fortress and looked at seemingly endless desert, which, in this night light of second moon rising, looked like living, ever changing carpet, which absorbed anything that human put on it. Behind him, mumbling in their dreams, slept Atreides people. His people. People with high hopes and visions of future grandeur. His known future. It came to him in 5 lines, sometimes arguing, and leading into different things. But to one result. Paul listened those lines, deep inside his head, and sometimes felt himself as observer, listener, presented by decisions, ideas and knowledge. Future was transparent before him, observed by those spiritual lines, analyzed and he was seeing visions of shocking depth and detail, about results of any action, even of other people.
He closed his eyes, and one of his inner prescient voices whispered, creating, as immediate effect of this whisper, plans and thoughts in his mind...


turn 162
Sihaya Ridge is founded on Cyan spot.
Spoiler :
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turn 163
Few buildings complete. Charging Wind Pass with Refinery. It will be hight prod city which will double our thopters numbers. (We will need them to hit Pole cities with perhaps capturing one at 1st wave, 1 scout thopter with 2 MZ will suffice if we have lots of thopters. There is poor production on poles so it give us quite good chance.)
Kuriya finished worker and started to spawn countless in future Mahdi Zealots. Worker goes to build mine on close worked mesa, that will help.
Zensufi Shrine being built by Tleilaxu.
Spoiler :
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Turn 165
We managed to rebuild feudal system in our land, and make laws about Paul's heirs and labor serfdom. Serfdom and HR adopted with no Anarchy. Being spiritual have its own benefits. Second shot shows hard working worker, which build strategic mine near Kuriya.
Emerror Shaddam IV declares that his house is living it's Golden Age.
Spoiler :
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Turn 167
We discover lands of Shadam IV which, as we know have its own Golden Age.

"Those bastards drink there quite expensive wine", our scout mentioned.

Spoiler :
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Turn 168
Our 1st Mahdi Zealot is done and marching to Tleilaxu borders to wait there for further orders.
Spoiler :
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Thats not all, to be continued very soon (just separating posts)
 
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