Dwarves (30/09/07)

[Tank_Guy#3]

How long did you have these in the works before I started ranting about an axe throwing dwarf in the LOTM public thread?

Very cool units. As are all your units, and very well made (as is the norm). But my nitpicking nature is forcing me to say something doesn't look right about the axe when the throwing axeman is getting ready to fire. But doesn't bother me, I still like it.

 

[DJ Bonebraker]

Currently I've added the worker into the FF mod, and the swordsman as the new Giott (king) unit for the regicide version.

If only someone were to create at least 1 more polearm wielding dwarf (In addition to the spearman and pikeman here and Dease's Dwarf Halberdier), then I could replace the entire Dragoon line for the Dwarves.....

Hmm.... Mayhaps you could reveal what scaling you used to shrink these guys down and what for prop you used for a beard and I could take a whack at it?

 

[Plotinus]

How long did you have these in the works before I started ranting about an axe throwing dwarf in the LOTM public thread?

A bit of a while, actually!

Very cool units. As are all your units, and very well made (as is the norm). But my nitpicking nature is forcing me to say something doesn't look right about the axe when the throwing axeman is getting ready to fire. But doesn't bother me, I still like it.

It's a tricky animation, especially since he has to pull a new axe out of the bucket on his back before chucking it. Animations like this often look better in some directions than in others. This was the best I could manage anyway!

If only someone were to create at least 1 more polearm wielding dwarf (In addition to the spearman and pikeman here and Dease's Dwarf Halberdier), then I could replace the entire Dragoon line for the Dwarves.....

Hmm.... Mayhaps you could reveal what scaling you used to shrink these guys down and what for prop you used for a beard and I could take a whack at it?

The beard is utah's Tribal Beard, stretched as large as I could get away with. If you like I could send you a Poser file containing the resized PDM, since that would be simpler than describing it (I resized most of the limbs in various ways). But I will probably be making a couple more Dwarves before long, so I could do another spearman if you like.

 

[DJ Bonebraker]

The beard is utah's Tribal Beard, stretched as large as I could get away with. If you like I could send you a Poser file containing the resized PDM, since that would be simpler than describing it (I resized most of the limbs in various ways). But I will probably be making a couple more Dwarves before long, so I could do another spearman if you like.

Yes, send the file, please! I'd actually be making 2 spearmen type dwarves: The ones you made would be the Dwarf equivalent of the standard Warrior (your spearman) and Lancer (your pikeman).

I'd be making a Gladiator (basically a dwarf that looks kind of in-between the pikeman and spearman in terms of armament, and with a small round shield, such as one of Utah's greek sheilds re-sized), and a Dragoon (Dwarf with a Halberd or other fancy polearm.... I may even include the Dragoon Jump attack), since Dease's dwarf halberd guy kind of looks out of place next to yours and Aaglo's dwarves (plus it's not quite as high quality as I'd like).

I already have a pile of props and such for the PDM (plus a number of other props that could be easily re-sized in a pinch), as well as what could best be described as "Build Your Own Polearm" (i.e. DAZ staff set with about half a dozen different standard blade weaopns that could be stuck on top of said staves to make a spear, partisan, halbard, pike, spontoon, glaive, etc)...

 

[Stormrage]

What others are you going to make, Plot, if it isn`t a secret?

 

[Plotinus]

A bowman, more heavily armoured. I may add one or two others, but that's the only one that's been requested, so I won't promise anything more at this stage.

 

[T-mun]

Originally Posted by Partizanac
Is there a chance that you create these in regular size?

Sorry, no chance!

And is there a chance you would help someone wanting to make them in regular size ?

 

[Keroro]

Ah, a fellow Prachett fan, I see

Indeed. Unfortunately it's difficult to get the full effect of the song on a forum.

Plotinus - I always felt that the crossbow was a more dwarfy kind of weapon than a bow somehow. It's also easier for a dwarf to use a crossbow. Since dwarves are short their arm spans must also be short, which makes it more difficult to generate power from a bow. A crossbow that operates with a wind up / ratchet mechanism is much easier to operate with stumpy arms.

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Would there be any chance of you posting the archer and axe thrower animations please? I'd like to create some flavour units for Anno Domini .

 

[Plotinus]

And is there a chance you would help someone wanting to make them in regular size ?

It really wouldn't work, because their proportions are all wrong. It would be a lot of work to re-proportion them as normal humans, and a lot of the animations would need completely re-doing. The best you could do is render them larger, but they would look odd.

Indeed. Unfortunately it's difficult to get the full effect of the song on a forum.

Plotinus - I always felt that the crossbow was a more dwarfy kind of weapon than a bow somehow. It's also easier for a dwarf to use a crossbow. Since dwarves are short their arm spans must also be short, which makes it more difficult to generate power from a bow. A crossbow that operates with a wind up / ratchet mechanism is much easier to operate with stumpy arms.

Ah, but these dwarves have proportionally much longer arms. I gave them roughly the same proportions as aaglo's dwarves. In fact I had some difficulty making the archer animations because his arms were too long rather than too short...

Anyway, I don't think crossbows are a very Tolkieny sort of weapon, no matter who's wielding them.

Would there be any chance of you posting the archer and axe thrower animations please? I'd like to create some flavour units for Anno Domini .

I can do that if you like, bearing in mind the above caveat about proportions. I suspect the archer animation would need quite a bit of alteration to work with a normal human; the axe thrower probably less, but still some.

 

[Keroro]

Actually, now you mention it they do seem to have long arms.

I think back to Warhammer dwarves when seeing these, but the WH dwarves are on the edge of the gunpowder / industrial age, whilst the Tolkien dwarves are not. They don't seem to be so mechanically minded in Tolkien, so bows might be OK. But armour is good. Lots of armour. And helmets.

 

[Yoda Power]

There are no crossbows in Tolkiens universe, and that's just the way it is.

We already have 2-3 dwarves with crossbows anyway.

 

[Stormrage]

Does Tolkien ever mentiones cats in the books? If not, would that mean that there are no cats in that universe?

And I think there is only one dwarf unit with a crossbow, and these dwarfs are in no way LOTR specific, since dwarfs are pretty much the same in all fantasy worlds. So yeah, any new dwarf unit is welcomed, wether it has a crossbow or a bazooka.

 

[Quinzy]

Bazooka dwarves could be used as stunties in the WH40K mod if we decide to add them in

 

[Stormrage]

Well.. an easter egg or two wouldn`t hurt

 

[LMR]

And I think there is only one dwarf unit with a crossbow.

There are two: aaglo's Quarreller and Ranger units both have crossbows

Bazooka dwarves could be used as stunties in the WH40K mod if we decide to add them in

THAT would be awesome!

 

[odintheking]

Plotty, I would really like that dwarf file, too, if you would be so kind.

 

[Mithadan]

Does Tolkien ever mentiones cats in the books? If not, would that mean that there are no cats in that universe?

Which is why we also think that there are bazooka-wielding dwarves in Middle-earth's Third Age of the Sun! No really, the primary reason we don't think crossbows are apropriate is because the general feel of the Middle-Earth of the texts is "the Heroic Age" of Northwestern Europe, i.e. the Dark Ages ca. 500-1000AD. The Professor himself gives this kind of time-range in one of his letters. Pictish hunting weapons aside, crossbows aren't much of a factor until, what, 1200-1300AD? Too high middle ages. What I'm saying isn't really much more than what Keroro said anyway:

...the WH dwarves are on the edge of the gunpowder / industrial age, whilst the Tolkien dwarves are not. They don't seem to be so mechanically minded in Tolkien....

 

[Yoda Power]

Does Tolkien ever mentiones cats in the books? If not, would that mean that there are no cats in that universe?

No but crossbows are an advanced weapon compared to bows. If we look at the general attitude of Tolkiens work it's a sort of a story taking place in the Dark Ages, and there were no crossbows in the Dark Ages in Europe.

edit: I should read Mithadans posts before I try and post the same.

And I think there is only one dwarf unit with a crossbow

There are two: aaglo's Quarreller and Ranger units both have crossbows


THAT would be awesome!

I'm 99% positive that Kinboats Dwarf Ranger has a crossbow too.

edit: Yes he does: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=2559250

 

[Plotinus]

Plotty, I would really like that dwarf file, too, if you would be so kind.

PM me your email address and I'll send it over.

Which is why we also think that there are bazooka-wielding dwarves in Middle-earth's Third Age of the Sun! No really, the primary reason we don't think crossbows are apropriate is because the general feel of the Middle-Earth of the texts is "the Heroic Age" of Northwestern Europe, i.e. the Dark Ages ca. 500-1000AD. The Professor himself gives this kind of time-range in one of his letters. Pictish hunting weapons aside, crossbows aren't much of a factor until, what, 1200-1300AD? Too high middle ages. What I'm saying isn't really much more than what Keroro said anyway:

Even more to the point, the whole thing is supposed to be set in extreme antiquity anyway, before recorded history as we know it even began. Now Tolkien was certainly given to some degree of anachronism (eg having his characters read and write codices, that is books, which I'm sure he knew full well weren't invented until around the third century AD), but crossbows would surely be going too far.